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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9919
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Aren't the Hall voters some of the same guys that have been giving Nnamdi his All-Pro's for the last several years? |
Just because he's an All-Pro means he's a Hall of Famer, makes sense. Didn't you just hop all over someone for saying if he doesn't have a ring or DPOTY award he isn't in? Good logic. |
My point is that if, indeed, that is the case, then he's been receiving one of the most important yearly player awards based not on the traditional metrics that you say these same voters seek out, but rather on something else then. |
....but, you can not discount the fact that his metrics simply don't stand up to what those who are currently in the Hall of Fame, or what in previous elections, the Hall has looked for - is that accurate?
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jonu62882
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 18416
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Aren't the Hall voters some of the same guys that have been giving Nnamdi his All-Pro's for the last several years? |
Just because he's an All-Pro means he's a Hall of Famer, makes sense. Didn't you just hop all over someone for saying if he doesn't have a ring or DPOTY award he isn't in? Good logic. |
My point is that if, indeed, that is the case, then he's been receiving one of the most important yearly player awards based not on the traditional metrics that you say these same voters seek out, but rather on something else then. |
....but, you can not discount the fact that his metrics simply don't stand up to what those who are currently in the Hall of Fame, or what in previous elections, the Hall has looked for - is that accurate? |
I agree that he doesn't have the traditional metrics you speak of. I don't dispute that.
I'm arguing that there is no real comparison for Nnamdi. That he is a special case. In order to appreciate the true greatness of his play in Oakland, you have to go beyond the "traditional" metrics, and I believe the voters are starting to because, otherwise, how would some of these AP voters be handing him All-Pro's if they didn't believe he earned it in some way with his play.
Look at his at the QBR against, how many times thrown against, how QB's avoided throwing at him, completion % against, TD's given up, etc. on a yearly basis compared to the rest of the league. The guy has been as shutdown as it gets.
Kinda the same way how Lito used to get all the recognition because he had the flashy picks while Sheldon was more a shutdown-type. Sheldon was, without a doubt, the better corner over Lito, but he didn't receive much praise outside of Philadelphia. And Sheldon was nowhere near the level of Nnamdi. Nnamdi has been the beneficiary of 4 All-Pro Awards, despite not having the traditional metrics. So, something must be different to the voters for them to believe he is deserving of such praise. |
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dawkins and Asomugha both well be in the HoF. Conversation over. It's that easy
Should just rename this thread to HoF Arguments
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stevec0008
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 7417
Location: Newark DE
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Eagles_808 wrote: | | Unless we make the Super Bowl this year, I'm going to have to give the edge to the 2004 team. Dawkins in his prime was a scary dude for opposing offensive players. The 2012 version hardly has anyone who is close to that distinction. |
Agreed.
Talent is one thing. But the '04 team played 100% together with better coaching (JJ) and took advantage of the opportunities it was given (on defense) |
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| EaglesFly58High wrote: | 2004 all day. The team this year is great on paper. They have to prove themselves first before this discussion even takes place.
SB Team > Paper Team |
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Trent Cole (5th Round Pick #146) Career Stats - 353 Solo Tackles, 13 Forced Fumbles, 71 Sacks, 2x Pro Bowler
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9919
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Aren't the Hall voters some of the same guys that have been giving Nnamdi his All-Pro's for the last several years? |
Just because he's an All-Pro means he's a Hall of Famer, makes sense. Didn't you just hop all over someone for saying if he doesn't have a ring or DPOTY award he isn't in? Good logic. |
My point is that if, indeed, that is the case, then he's been receiving one of the most important yearly player awards based not on the traditional metrics that you say these same voters seek out, but rather on something else then. |
....but, you can not discount the fact that his metrics simply don't stand up to what those who are currently in the Hall of Fame, or what in previous elections, the Hall has looked for - is that accurate? |
I agree that he doesn't have the traditional metrics you speak of. I don't dispute that.
I'm arguing that there is no real comparison for Nnamdi. That he is a special case. In order to appreciate the true greatness of his play in Oakland, you have to go beyond the "traditional" metrics, and I believe the voters are starting to because, otherwise, how would some of these AP voters be handing him All-Pro's if they didn't believe he earned it in some way with his play.
Look at his at the QBR against, how many times thrown against, how QB's avoided throwing at him, completion % against, TD's given up, etc. on a yearly basis compared to the rest of the league. The guy has been as shutdown as it gets.
Kinda the same way how Lito used to get all the recognition because he had the flashy picks while Sheldon was more a shutdown-type. Sheldon was, without a doubt, the better corner over Lito, but he didn't receive much praise outside of Philadelphia. And Sheldon was nowhere near the level of Nnamdi. Nnamdi has been the beneficiary of 4 All-Pro Awards, despite not having the traditional metrics. So, something must be different to the voters for them to believe he is deserving of such praise. |
Okay - so we do agree[that his metrics are underwhelming, but he's played like a top flight corner], just have different views on it; sorry to clutter this thread.
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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2004.
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| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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Location: Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Eagles $5$ wrote: | | Unless Cole or Nnamdi becomes the DPOY and win a ring, they will not be HOF players. C'mon, lets not be a homer. |
It all comes down to the hardware. If at anytime in their careers they win a SB they instantly move up the charts for consideration. It's the nature of the beast . Rings talk BS walks. It's the only singular reason Elisha will be considered.
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PowerElite
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | Eagles $5$ wrote: | | Unless Cole or Nnamdi becomes the DPOY and win a ring, they will not be HOF players. C'mon, lets not be a homer. |
It all comes down to the hardware. If at anytime in their careers they win a SB they instantly move up the charts for consideration. It's the nature of the beast . Rings talk BS walks. It's the only singular reason Elisha will be considered. |
I think being a Manning will have a lot to do with it too. People aren't even willing to talk about Big Ben in hall of fame context when I believe that he is already a lock... |
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willy_law
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8287
Location: Villanova University
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PowerElite wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | Eagles $5$ wrote: | | Unless Cole or Nnamdi becomes the DPOY and win a ring, they will not be HOF players. C'mon, lets not be a homer. |
It all comes down to the hardware. If at anytime in their careers they win a SB they instantly move up the charts for consideration. It's the nature of the beast . Rings talk BS walks. It's the only singular reason Elisha will be considered. |
I think being a Manning will have a lot to do with it too. People aren't even willing to talk about Big Ben in hall of fame context when I believe that he is already a lock... |
If Ben is a lock, would Eli be a lock? I think Ben has a great shot.
Statistically who has been better?
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| willy_law wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | Eagles $5$ wrote: | | Unless Cole or Nnamdi becomes the DPOY and win a ring, they will not be HOF players. C'mon, lets not be a homer. |
It all comes down to the hardware. If at anytime in their careers they win a SB they instantly move up the charts for consideration. It's the nature of the beast . Rings talk BS walks. It's the only singular reason Elisha will be considered. |
I think being a Manning will have a lot to do with it too. People aren't even willing to talk about Big Ben in hall of fame context when I believe that he is already a lock... |
If Ben is a lock, would Eli be a lock? I think Ben has a great shot.
Statistically who has been better? |
If Ben gets in then HoF is a joke. He had the best defenses backing him up. He's another game manager. Especially then
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Trent Cole (5th Round Pick #146) Career Stats - 353 Solo Tackles, 13 Forced Fumbles, 71 Sacks, 2x Pro Bowler
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RBrown86
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 22542
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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"Dream team mayne"
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EaglesFly58High
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 2459
Location: Bellmawr, New Jersey / The Eagles Forum
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| RBrown86 wrote: |
"Dream team mayne"
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Oh no! *Throws up*
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Trent Cole (5th Round Pick #146) Career Stats - 353 Solo Tackles, 13 Forced Fumbles, 71 Sacks, 2x Pro Bowler
PSN-KnOWn-X // Twitter-EaglesFlyHigh11 |
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BBIB
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 7411
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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The scary thing about this Eagles team is it could actually be the first time you guys have an elite defense since that 2004 team.
And even if it's not top 2 in scoring this year like that team, even a top 5 scoring defense per say potentially with the offense that this team has could make it a more talented team
McNabb to TO was talent, but there was not the weapons offensively on that 2004 squad that you could potentially have with more than one homerun threat at receiver, LeSean McCoy, and the factor of Vick's mobility.
Also Celek > LJ Smith
Eagles this year could be top 3-5 team in the NFL in scoring offense and defense
THe key is basically health and it all begins with the health of #7 |
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Hammertime52
Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 5084
Location: South Jersey
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| willy_law wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | Eagles $5$ wrote: | | Unless Cole or Nnamdi becomes the DPOY and win a ring, they will not be HOF players. C'mon, lets not be a homer. |
It all comes down to the hardware. If at anytime in their careers they win a SB they instantly move up the charts for consideration. It's the nature of the beast . Rings talk BS walks. It's the only singular reason Elisha will be considered. |
I think being a Manning will have a lot to do with it too. People aren't even willing to talk about Big Ben in hall of fame context when I believe that he is already a lock... |
If Ben is a lock, would Eli be a lock? I think Ben has a great shot.
Statistically who has been better? |
Neither of them deserve to get in IMO
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