| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| GRADE? |
| A |
|
18% |
[ 3 ] |
| B |
|
50% |
[ 8 ] |
| C |
|
18% |
[ 3 ] |
| D |
|
12% |
[ 2 ] |
| F |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 16 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19403
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
|
 Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| The_Slamman wrote: |
I think what Plan9 is saying in a nutshell is that the Cowboys clearly did not do a good job of replenishing the position in the draft during the Novacek, Campbell, Harris and McGee years. And, he would be right... the organization was forced to seek FA help instead of draft help. This would be despite having spent a first, second and forth round draft picks on the position within the years prior to bringing in those FAs.
Plan9 actually makes a good point IMO. |
I'd argue the verbiage, but I agree with the principle statement. We have needed to replenish via both draft and free agency. I don't think it can be one or the other. Not in this new era.
_________________
In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dirk Gently
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 5034
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| WizardHawk wrote: | 1. Kendell Watkins- F
2. Eric Bjornson - D
3. David LaFleur - D
4. Rodrick Monroe - F
5. Mike Lucky - D
6. Bob Slowikowski - F
7. Jason Witten - A
8. Sean Ryan - C
9. Anthony Fasano - C
10. Martellus Bennett - C
11. John Phillips - C
12. James Hanna - C
17/12 = 1.4 [D] |
Pull up your pants, your bias is showing.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dirk Gently
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 5034
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: |
My memory may be a little hazy, but all but Bob Slowikowski and Rodrick Monroe made a contribution if I recall correctly. |
Mike Lucky was a very solid 3rd TE during the early Witten/Campbell years, much like Phillips has been since '09.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19403
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Dirk Gently wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: |
My memory may be a little hazy, but all but Bob Slowikowski and Rodrick Monroe made a contribution if I recall correctly. |
Mike Lucky was a very solid 3rd TE during the early Witten/Campbell years, much like Phillips has been since '09. |
I remember Lucky. Hence why I didn't list him.  The other two, I would have to actually look up - and I feel that cheapens the process.
_________________
In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19403
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Just a gut feeling, but I feel we have missed more in the second than we have in any other round. |
In fact, aside from Sean Lee, I have a hard time thinking of a player who was drafted in the second who has made a profound impact. I would not even classify Al Johnson in this category.
_________________
In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
I think what Plan9 is saying in a nutshell is that the Cowboys clearly did not do a good job of replenishing the position in the draft during the Novacek, Campbell, Harris and McGee years. And, he would be right... the organization was forced to seek FA help instead of draft help. This would be despite having spent a first, second and forth round draft picks on the position within the years prior to bringing in those FAs.
Plan9 actually makes a good point IMO. |
I'd argue the verbiage, but I agree with the principle statement. We have needed to replenish via both draft and free agency. I don't think it can be one or the other. Not in this new era. |
I disagree. I think the best teams in the NFL build through the draft and only supplement through FA. IMO, FAs rarely live up to their expectations. There is something to getting a kid while he's young, teaching him the system, etc. Teams like the Steelers, Ravens, Packers, and the Pats have sustained success by building through the draft on only supplementing through FA. Teams that rely too heavily on building through FA rarely have sustained success and in the case of the Redskins... has actually set the franchise backwards for years at a time.
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Just a gut feeling, but I feel we have missed more in the second than we have in any other round. |
In fact, aside from Sean Lee, I have a hard time thinking of a player who was drafted in the second who has made a profound impact. I would not even classify Al Johnson in this category. |
As I said before, if I would have asked people to grade the second round draft picks, I would have been called a hater just for doing it (keep in mind I was called a hater for asking people to grade the first round... the second would have been Really, Really bad).
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19403
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| The_Slamman wrote: |
As I said before, if I would have asked people to grade the second round draft picks, I would have been called a hater just for doing it (keep in mind I was called a hater for asking people to grade the first round... the second would have been Really, Really bad). |
People name call. Everyone does it. That does not change the fact the second round for us has been awful (Lee aside). I would almost rather trade out of it and pick up an extra 4 since we do really well there.
_________________
In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dboys88-82
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 1675
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| The_Slamman wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Just a gut feeling, but I feel we have missed more in the second than we have in any other round. |
In fact, aside from Sean Lee, I have a hard time thinking of a player who was drafted in the second who has made a profound impact. I would not even classify Al Johnson in this category. |
As I said before, if I would have asked people to grade the second round draft picks, I would have been called a hater just for doing it (keep in mind I was called a hater for asking people to grade the first round... the second would have been Really, Really bad). |
Slam, its obvious that you do not like Jerry correct? Thats why I personally called you a hater of Jerry Jones.
When you look at the picks in the manner you have presented them its rather obvious why someone would hate Jerry Jones. I'll admit I am not a big fan.
What I believe is that Jerry has "seen the light" and realizes he made some poor decisions. He basically admitted it in the one post draft press conference. He acknowledged that he had a hard time adjusting to how everyone else drafted once all those draft picks were gone that we got in return from the H. Walker trade. He couldnt take risks anymore. I think he said back then they were dealing with around 8000 points in draft picks compared to now like 4000. (Sorry I dont have time to search for this right now.) I can see where maybe a person with little common sense has a hard time adjusting to that.
Anyways, back to the point that I tried to make. I think Jerry is letting Garrett and Stephen have more control and Jerry is learning how to run a team correctly now. In that sense, I am quite a bit more confident going forward as long as Jerry continues to draft the way he has the last two years.
I am not going to base my trust in the organization going forward on things that happend 10-20 years ago...those things are in the past and aren't currently affecting this team.
_________________
^^Thanks to Kempes for the sig.^^ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19403
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Dboys88-82 wrote: | | I think he said back then they were dealing with around 8000 points in draft picks compared to now like 4000. (Sorry I dont have time to search for this right now.) . |
I can vouch for this. Jerry stated this in a press-conference post draft. Of how things have had to change. Before we had 8000 points to play with, so it was much easier to have fun and be successful. NOTE - he did not say the word fun, I am mixing it up, before everyone freaks out.
_________________
In Redball I Trust!
The price of progress is trusting the process.
Heart. Leadership. Passion. Will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Texas_OutLaw7 wrote: | | Dboys88-82 wrote: | | I think he said back then they were dealing with around 8000 points in draft picks compared to now like 4000. (Sorry I dont have time to search for this right now.) . |
I can vouch for this. Jerry stated this in a press-conference post draft. Of how things have had to change. Before we had 8000 points to play with, so it was much easier to have fun and be successful. NOTE - he did not say the word fun, I am mixing it up, before everyone freaks out. |
Yeah, he actually said it was easier to take chances back then and that missing on a pick did not hurt as much because he had so many to play with.
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WareWolf94
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5296
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dirk Gently
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 5034
|
| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| The_Slamman wrote: |
Yeah, he actually said it was easier to take chances back then and that missing on a pick did not hurt as much because he had so many to play with. |
And miss they did. I did a study a while back on success rates. I showed Jimmy at about 33%, while the Parcells drafts came in at around 50%.
It'll be interesting to go back and see the Phillips and Garrett success rates.
One thing is very clear, however-- starting with the arrival of Parcells, the head coach has been the ones calling the shots on the draft. A lot of people seem to feel Wade was chosen for his submission to Jerry, but I think it could be argued that Jerry gave Wade too much of what he wanted, personnel wise (letting Burnett go to bring in Brooking, for example).
Like I said, I'll be real interested to compare the Wade and Garrett picks, after we get a few more of the latter.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Dirk Gently wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
Yeah, he actually said it was easier to take chances back then and that missing on a pick did not hurt as much because he had so many to play with. |
And miss they did. I did a study a while back on success rates. I showed Jimmy at about 33%, while the Parcells drafts came in at around 50%.
It'll be interesting to go back and see the Phillips and Garrett success rates.
One thing is very clear, however-- starting with the arrival of Parcells, the head coach has been the ones calling the shots on the draft. A lot of people seem to feel Wade was chosen for his submission to Jerry, but I think it could be argued that Jerry gave Wade too much of what he wanted, personnel wise (letting Burnett go to bring in Brooking, for example).
Like I said, I'll be real interested to compare the Wade and Garrett picks, after we get a few more of the latter. |
Dirk, I'm not sure if you are doing this intentionally or unintentionally. You are either deliberately misleading everybody or your are making one of the worst assessments EVER. Jimmy drafts were 12 rounds so of course the odds are stacked against the lower round guys. So what are you trying to pull here? The 89 draft is an A+ draft. The 90 draft includes a HOFer, a damn good DT, and a shark. The 91 draft was Awesome with 7 starters (8 if you include Prichett) and a SB MVP. The 92 draft produced 3 damn good starters and a HOF candidate and that's not including Jimmy Smith. The 93 draft produced 3 damn good starters not including Ron Stone, a probowler for the giants.
That's just a ridiculous argument to make... That jimmy didn't hit as good a percentage as parcells when Parcells drafted 7 rounds and jimmy drafted 12. That's just stupid. If you compare apples to apples... Parcells 7 rounds vs Jimmy's first 7 rounds, jimmy will dominate Parcells in every category.
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WareWolf94
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5296
|
| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| The_Slamman wrote: | | Dirk Gently wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
Yeah, he actually said it was easier to take chances back then and that missing on a pick did not hurt as much because he had so many to play with. |
And miss they did. I did a study a while back on success rates. I showed Jimmy at about 33%, while the Parcells drafts came in at around 50%.
It'll be interesting to go back and see the Phillips and Garrett success rates.
One thing is very clear, however-- starting with the arrival of Parcells, the head coach has been the ones calling the shots on the draft. A lot of people seem to feel Wade was chosen for his submission to Jerry, but I think it could be argued that Jerry gave Wade too much of what he wanted, personnel wise (letting Burnett go to bring in Brooking, for example).
Like I said, I'll be real interested to compare the Wade and Garrett picks, after we get a few more of the latter. |
Dirk, I'm not sure if you are doing this intentionally or unintentionally. You are either deliberately misleading everybody or your are making one of the worst assessments EVER. Jimmy drafts were 12 rounds so of course the odds are stacked against the lower round guys. So what are you trying to pull here? The 89 draft is an A+ draft. The 90 draft includes a HOFer, a damn good DT, and a shark. The 91 draft was Awesome with 7 starters (8 if you include Prichett) and a SB MVP. The 92 draft produced 3 damn good starters and a HOF candidate and that's not including Jimmy Smith. The 93 draft produced 3 damn good starters not including Ron Stone, a probowler for the giants.
That's just a ridiculous argument to make... That jimmy didn't hit as good a percentage as parcells when Parcells drafted 7 rounds and jimmy drafted 12. That's just stupid. If you compare apples to apples... Parcells 7 rounds vs Jimmy's first 7 rounds, jimmy will dominate Parcells in every category. |
Why would it matter anyways? I would hope he's including UDFAs in his percentages and at that point the amount of players would come out in the wash.
Although...I'm sure Wade Phillips was targeting Dez Bryant. 
_________________
Thanks to SHSTE
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25584
When you're right, you're right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
