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thebestever6
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1427
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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: Why I don't get draft grades? |
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Ok, so I read every draft grade for the Denver Broncos, and all of them gave Broncos a C because they didn't build around Peyton Manning. This makes no sense we have Decker and Thomas who Manning will make into studs they are already solid now. They added two more slot wide receivers in free agency in Hill and Caldwell. They added two TEs to go along with the young developing ones. They added Hillman who I love he is young is 5'10 so he has the frame to get to 210 so he could be an every down back one day. Elway and Fox said the reason they liked him was because he can run in between the tackles something a lot of people say he can't do. So our offense is ready to go as far as I'm concerned. They added a dt in round two one that was very productive in college and I believe is super underrated. Kiper certainly loves him. They got a D end, Outside linebacker, and Corner who some pegged as a 2nd round pick before his injury. Lets not forget they added a corner and solid safety in free agency. Either Carter, or Moore will emerge to be the other safety so what is the problem how did they not build around Peyton Manning because of one pick???? The problem I believe will every expert and Bronco fan is we are severely underrating the talent of the play makers in the offense.
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 6433
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2.
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| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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thebestever6
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1427
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years.
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Props to Deadpulse for the Sig:
Big Palooka wrote:
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19232
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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I think you are are overrating a guy like Decker who has shown he drops balls and looses concentration. Manning will help the WRs in theory, but outside Thomas, there isn't a real threat at the position. Most of Thomas and Decker's production w/ Tebow came on a lot of broken plays and Tebow being creative. What happens when they are asked to run precise timing routs for Manning?
Hillman will be a nice change of pace, but many question if he can run inside and be an every down back. He's a wildcard.
The biggest issue is Oline on offense. Watch that NE playoff game. NE ran rough shod on Tebow who didn't have a prayer even with his ability to escape and improvise. Manning is a sitting duck behind that line and you are relying on his ability to get the ball out quick. Denver didn't address glaring needs left to right on that Oline.
Defensively, they addressed DT with a starter. That's it. This is a team that gave up 40+ to some good offenses last year and added 1 starter in the draft and most believed he was a reach (aside from Kiper who is wrong a lot).
End of the day, 2010 the Broncos beat Oak, KC, SD, Cincy, NYJ, Miami, Minn, Chi.
Their schedule is noticeably more difficult, their talent has marginally increased around Manning. A C grade feels right. They didn't tank, but they didn't do much to get better right away.
But in the end, draft grades are meaningless.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19232
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| thebestever6 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years. |
yeah . . . . there isn't a TE in Denver who is athletic enough to play that role. Have to laugh at everyone wanting to replicate the NE trend at TE. Only works if you have guys of that caliber and Denver doesn't have anything close. Most teams don't.
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 6433
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | thebestever6 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years. |
yeah . . . . there isn't a TE in Denver who is athletic enough to play that role. Have to laugh at everyone wanting to replicate the NE trend at TE. Only works if you have guys of that caliber and Denver doesn't have anything close. Most teams don't. |
Julius Thomas is extremely athletic as is Virgil Green.
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| Big Palooka wrote: | | Broncos won't make the playoffs |
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thebestever6
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1427
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | I think you are are overrating a guy like Decker who has shown he drops balls and looses concentration. Manning will help the WRs in theory, but outside Thomas, there isn't a real threat at the position. Most of Thomas and Decker's production w/ Tebow came on a lot of broken plays and Tebow being creative. What happens when they are asked to run precise timing routs for Manning?
Hillman will be a nice change of pace, but many question if he can run inside and be an every down back. He's a wildcard.
The biggest issue is Oline on offense. Watch that NE playoff game. NE ran rough shod on Tebow who didn't have a prayer even with his ability to escape and improvise. Manning is a sitting duck behind that line and you are relying on his ability to get the ball out quick. Denver didn't address glaring needs left to right on that Oline.
Defensively, they addressed DT with a starter. That's it. This is a team that gave up 40+ to some good offenses last year and added 1 starter in the draft and most believed he was a reach (aside from Kiper who is wrong a lot).
End of the day, 2010 the Broncos beat Oak, KC, SD, Cincy, NYJ, Miami, Minn, Chi.
Their schedule is noticeably more difficult, their talent has marginally increased around Manning. A C grade feels right. They didn't tank, but they didn't do much to get better right away.
But in the end, draft grades are meaningless. |
See I think Decker who is the best route runner on our team will excel with Manning. He never adjusted to the way the ball came out of Tebow's hand with Orton he didn't drop the ball a lot. I also am fine with Denver's oline I think it's pretty stable NE was just pinning there ears back that game the Bronco offense couldn't keep up. Manning does a much better job reading the defense. Also, at safety that game we had Bush starting next to Carter, and Bush was bad. I think the Safety from Cleveland will be an upgrade along with Carter and Moore going into there second year. Porter is also an upgrade over Goodman glad to see him go. Chris Harris is also going into his second year and he was a steal as an undrafted free agent.
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Props to Deadpulse for the Sig:
Big Palooka wrote:
"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB." |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19232
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | thebestever6 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years. |
yeah . . . . there isn't a TE in Denver who is athletic enough to play that role. Have to laugh at everyone wanting to replicate the NE trend at TE. Only works if you have guys of that caliber and Denver doesn't have anything close. Most teams don't. |
Julius Thomas is extremely athletic as is Virgil Green. |
Thomas is athletic, but he's not a good player (yet) to be considered anything more than depth. Green is stiff as a board. He's fast, but he's not an agile player. He will be cut in TC, I am 100% certain of. He's not a good player.
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Reaver
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | I think you are are overrating a guy like Decker who has shown he drops balls and looses concentration. Manning will help the WRs in theory, but outside Thomas, there isn't a real threat at the position. Most of Thomas and Decker's production w/ Tebow came on a lot of broken plays and Tebow being creative. What happens when they are asked to run precise timing routs for Manning?
Hillman will be a nice change of pace, but many question if he can run inside and be an every down back. He's a wildcard.
The biggest issue is Oline on offense. Watch that NE playoff game. NE ran rough shod on Tebow who didn't have a prayer even with his ability to escape and improvise. Manning is a sitting duck behind that line and you are relying on his ability to get the ball out quick. Denver didn't address glaring needs left to right on that Oline.
Defensively, they addressed DT with a starter. That's it. This is a team that gave up 40+ to some good offenses last year and added 1 starter in the draft and most believed he was a reach (aside from Kiper who is wrong a lot).
End of the day, 2010 the Broncos beat Oak, KC, SD, Cincy, NYJ, Miami, Minn, Chi.
Their schedule is noticeably more difficult, their talent has marginally increased around Manning. A C grade feels right. They didn't tank, but they didn't do much to get better right away.
But in the end, draft grades are meaningless. |
I can agree with this. However, most of Decker's production came in the first 5 games with Orton throwing to him in an actual NFL offense with routes than with Tebow when he was forced to improvise. The improvisation helped Demaryius Thomas whose athletic ability helped him get open during improv time. The improvisation hurt Eric Decker whose playstyle relies on precise routes and timing.
I believe Eric Decker's production will increase with Peyton Manning, while Demaryius Thomas' decreases, due to the new offense and play styles of Peyton, Decker, and Thomas. |
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AKRNA
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4434
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | I think you are are overrating a guy like Decker who has shown he drops balls and looses concentration. Manning will help the WRs in theory, but outside Thomas, there isn't a real threat at the position. Most of Thomas and Decker's production w/ Tebow came on a lot of broken plays and Tebow being creative. What happens when they are asked to run precise timing routs for Manning?
Hillman will be a nice change of pace, but many question if he can run inside and be an every down back. He's a wildcard.
The biggest issue is Oline on offense. Watch that NE playoff game. NE ran rough shod on Tebow who didn't have a prayer even with his ability to escape and improvise. Manning is a sitting duck behind that line and you are relying on his ability to get the ball out quick. Denver didn't address glaring needs left to right on that Oline.
Defensively, they addressed DT with a starter. That's it. This is a team that gave up 40+ to some good offenses last year and added 1 starter in the draft and most believed he was a reach (aside from Kiper who is wrong a lot).
End of the day, 2010 the Broncos beat Oak, KC, SD, Cincy, NYJ, Miami, Minn, Chi.
Their schedule is noticeably more difficult, their talent has marginally increased around Manning. A C grade feels right. They didn't tank, but they didn't do much to get better right away.
But in the end, draft grades are meaningless. |
Well, I agree, and I don't. 
I think we'll see large improvement from our WR's Decker especially. I think a lot of his drops and concentration lapses can be laid at the feet of our game plans and TT. WR's were just not involved and targeted only a few times a game. That will change.
I agree about the OL. Last season we were very susceptible to speed rushers on the right side and bull rushers in the interior. The impact was greatly negated by TT's ability to run, forcing most D's to contain him rather than rush him. That won't be the case this year. Hopefully we've got a good plan.
Overall, as I've said before, grades are completely subjective at this point and we won't really know for a few years. |
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Reaver
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | thebestever6 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years. |
yeah . . . . there isn't a TE in Denver who is athletic enough to play that role. Have to laugh at everyone wanting to replicate the NE trend at TE. Only works if you have guys of that caliber and Denver doesn't have anything close. Most teams don't. |
Julius Thomas is extremely athletic as is Virgil Green. |
Thomas is athletic, but he's not a good player (yet) to be considered anything more than depth. Green is stiff as a board. He's fast, but he's not an agile player. He will be cut in TC, I am 100% certain of. He's not a good player. |
I'm not sold that Virgil Green is not a good player, but I do think he'll be cut with Tamme, Dreessen, and Julius Thomas ahead of him. Julius will be depth, with the hopes that he will learn how to block better, get some confidence, and develop a 'mean streak'. He seems so timid out there. |
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Nyko1990
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 743
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anyone is over estimating what we have, or under estimating it. Most mebers on this board re very liberal in their evaluations of our team.
We have a ton of potential at WR in Thomas and Decker, but neither have been consistant. If they emerge this year depth might not even matter; but at the moment they're both run of the mill WR's with perhaps the biggest upside of a #1 and #2 on any team in the NFL.
At TE we have an under rated TE in Dressen ( I think the guy is a stud, but not on the tevel of gronk, davis, hernandez, etc Elite guys) and a ultility guy in Tamme.
At RB we have a huge question mark. Will mcgahee still play the way he did last year? Is Hillman gonna fly under the radar and do a good job?
In terms of draft grade out draft could've went 400x better. Osweiler was a terrible pick, Wolfe was debatable, we traded up for hillman, our trades were horrid, and the rest of the guys, outside of Bolden and Blake seem to be depth guys. |
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thebestever6
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 1427
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | thebestever6 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | | You really need 3 or 4 good wide receivers though, we have 2. |
You don't think Manning can make Hill and Caldwell into solid slot receivers? Hill played for Jacksonville that is the place Wrs go to die. Also with all the TEs we have that don't be surprised if they line up as a Wr kind of like what NE has done for the last two years. |
yeah . . . . there isn't a TE in Denver who is athletic enough to play that role. Have to laugh at everyone wanting to replicate the NE trend at TE. Only works if you have guys of that caliber and Denver doesn't have anything close. Most teams don't. |
Julius Thomas is extremely athletic as is Virgil Green. |
Thomas is athletic, but he's not a good player (yet) to be considered anything more than depth. Green is stiff as a board. He's fast, but he's not an agile player. He will be cut in TC, I am 100% certain of. He's not a good player. |
Well Thomas is gonna have 2 off season to work on his craft he is a wild card. If he improved enough in his blocking and as a receiver to be a TE, and one that can be split out wide idk. I am banking on that he has and that's why we didn't see a receiver drafted, because Tamme and Dresson can be the primary blocking TEs and Thomas can be the versatile one you can split out like a Hernandez from NE.
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Props to Deadpulse for the Sig:
Big Palooka wrote:
"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB." |
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ToastedOats
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2940
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I can't get over the fact that Palooka and Akrna do not like our line. Manning, because of his awarness and ability to read and get rid of the ball quickly, automatically makes our line better. I agree that at times the line can get beat, but so does every line. Tebow, to his credit, was elusive, but at the same time he held the ball so long that the line had to hold blocks 5,6, and at times 7 seconds. In the NFL that is a long time. The draft showed that Elway and Fox are happy with the line as they added one player who can come in and contribute, if need be.
I do like the line and think that for as young as it is has made strides and will continue to do so, this upcoming year.
As far as the draft, we have to see them play or at least practice before making a decision. |
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PGeorge2
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 1535
Location: Columbia, MO
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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LOL at people talking about our WR's drops. Go look at the drops through the 5 or hwoever many games Orton started and then compare it to the games Tebow started.
Which makes me sense? One, Tebow threw a ball much harder to catch? Or two, all of a sudden in week 6 every receiver on our team forgot how to catch the ball? You're right, it was probably number two...
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| OrangeNBlue86#2 wrote: | | Me and Quinton Carter are going to Vegas to put some money on back to back Broncos Super Bowls and then Peyton retiring. |
Joe_is_the_best on the sig! |
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