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Eagles_808

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 24806
Location: Torrance, CA

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject:

birdman0069 wrote:

And none of them could be mentioned in the same sentence with guys like Fred Davis, Kellen Winslow and Jake Ballard. They're all average NFL TE's. We didn't even get to the elite TE's we play this season like Tony Gonzalas, Jimmy Graham, Brandon Pettigrew and Jason Wittin.

Fred Daivs went to USC.
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EaglesFan5-36-81

Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 14003
Location: Sig by Eagles_808

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject:

birdman0069 wrote:

EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote:

birdman0069 wrote:

EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote:

I know the Eagles plan on using the SAM (Kendricks) lined up between the LDE and LDT almost like a second ILB. He will also drop into coverage on tight ends, but the fact we are using him more as a MIKE than a traditional SAM makes me think he will rack up a ton of tackles and will allow him to continue his attacking style of play.

His production would be even better if on running downs we lined up Cox and Dixon in front of him at LDE and LDT respectively as he would be allowed to chase and stay clean in the running game and allow him to shoot gaps and make plays.

Not only do I think he's our best rookie player in 2012, I think he ends up as the best LB in the class. He could end up with a 85 Tackle / 2 INT / 2 Sack / 2 FF / 7 TFL type season. Say what you want about the height being an issue in coverage, I'm not as concerned as most.

Remember this the first time Jasoin Witten expoits him for 120 yards and 2 td's.
Already people want to talk about Kendricks as if he were an all pro.
He was average in pass coverage against below average competition and now people predict he will be superb at the NFL level. I'll be happy if he is a 3 down LB by week 8. There is reason he wasn't drafted until 46th overall.

To your first statement, Jason Witten is a top 5 TE in the NFL and in addition him beating a rookie wouldn't be hugely shocking, hell I saw TEs beat Patrick Willis, doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm talking about the fit and how he could play, were not saying he's a lock to be an all pro, were just saying he fits. Also he won't draw Witten every play so those numbers wouldn't soley be on Kendricks, how many of those times is Allen on him, or Nnamdi, or another player while Kendricks blitzes? Moot point.

Your second point couldn't be more false if you said Santa Clause was real. First off, he did play NFL caliber QBs and TEs in the PAC-12. That conference pumps out tight ends like no body's buisness in the NFL. In addition, Cal was a very successful team at covering tight ends, and Kendricks was a big part of that, if you wach a Cal game instead of going off youtube clips, you would know they run a lot of cover 2, and blitz a lot, but when he was dropped into man coverage he was very good.

Your third point of him falling to 46 is just dumb, Hell by that logic there was a reason Brian Dawkins was the 61st overall pick in 1996 and the 4th safety taken in that class. LeSean McCoy was the 53rd overall pick and the 4th RB taken, hell Tom Brady is the top QB in the NFL and was drafted in the 6th round. To use the fact that a guy was a 2nd round pick as ammo for your statement is just mind numbingly dumb.

Excuse me. The Pac 12, really? That's what you are basing this on? What TE, in the PAC-12, would you say compares to a quality NFL TE? It's not like he played in the SEC and put great numbers.
He wasn't drafted in the first because no team in the NFL viewed him has a player worthy of being picked in the first round.
FACT: Kendrick's has holes in his game.
The kind of numbers you are suggesting would make him a canidate for RotY. Is that what you are suggesting?
I never suggested Kendrick will not exceed my expectations. Telling me where other players where drafted is the stupidest thing possible. Are you comparing Kendricks to any of those other guys? Are you saying he will have a career as great as any of those other guys?
FACT: It just as likely Kendricks is a complete bust as it is he has an All Pro career.
Let me tell you what I know.
Kendricks has great straight line speed but will struggle to cover more athletic NFL TE's man to man. I watched him cover man to man and he struggle with lesser competition at times. If you say he didn't then you're riddin his jock. If he had "very good" coverage skills, as you suggest, he would have been a top 20 pick. All I care about is how his skill set fits into our scheme. He isn't going to be asked to drop into zone coverage that often. He isn't going to Blitz as often as he did in college IF he is playing thye SAM spot. You want him to blitz, then you want him on the weak side.
Not having played a down in the NFL and being totally unfamiliar with the scheme we run Kendrick will be lucky to be our opening day SAM. Chaney clearly has the edge here and anything else is wishfull thinking on your part. Will Kendrick start next year? Yes, and if he starts by week 8 then he is doing very well.

Since 2010 Pac 12 TEs to either be drafted or make a roster:
Rob Gronkowski
Ed Dickson
Anthony McCoy
Jim Dray
Logan Paulsen
Jordan Cameron
Coby Fleener
Rhett Ellison
David Paulson

In addition to Zach Ertz, Levine Toilolo, Joseph Fauria, Austin Seferian-Jenkins, among others.

As far as coverage skills he has them, all you need to do is watch him, he moves well, runs stride for stride with NFL caliber tight ends when asked to at CAL, (although as I noted they ran a heavy amount of cover 2) gets good depth on his drops and has the athletic ability to make a play on the ball, its not just from the combine numbers, he did it in games. The guy covers well.

Why did he fall, size has something to do with it although he plays bigger, as well as team needs and the fact he is best suited to be a 43 linebacker in the pros despite playing in a 34 in college. Kuechly went higher because he is perceived as a better player due to tackle stats but I'd take Kendricks over him as he's more of a playmaker. The reason he fell into the 2nd? All the linebackers except for Kuechly are 34 linebackers, be it an OLB, or a TED backer in the case of Hightower.

The Vikings after a moveup are the only team that picked from 20-32 that ran a 43 and could have used a LB, but their secondary is much worse than their LB corps (as evidence by Tim Cantthrow torching them) so they took a safety.

The Rams could have used another LB early in the 2nd, but they needed to get Bradford a target, and improve their inept secondary as well.

Panthers took Kuechly and already have Thomas Davis, Jon Beason, and James Anderson, so they didn't need him. Broncos needed to fill a huge hole at DT and took Wolfe, Buffalo has a pretty good LB corps and needed to add an offensive lineman after loosing Bell, Miami really needed a RT and have good players at LB, The Jets have good ILBs and needed a WR and the Cheifs have a good duo with Derrick Johnson and Jovan Belcher.

It was a perfect storm of sorts for him to fall in the draft, same as it was with Andy Dalton and the Bengals, sometimes a guy just falls, it happens.

You should really do research before you type.
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EaglesFan5-36-81

Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 14003
Location: Sig by Eagles_808

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Eagles_808 wrote:

birdman0069 wrote:

Fred Daivs went to USC.

exactly.

The Pac 12 (and before it the Pac-10) has been one of the most consistent confrences of putting tight ends into the NFL.
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Remixxxxxxx

Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9950
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject:

Quote:

That's it - this is all that needs to said about NFL caliber TEs in the PAC 12.
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Phire

Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39257
Location: #championchip 2012 HoF

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

With Rookie mini-camps now over, here is Big Red providing the closing statements

(transcript)
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Head-Coach-Andy-Reid/ee3d219e-8029-496b-9428-4e6e57eb05c5

[on Kendricks possibly being the starting SAM]

Quote:

I'll tell you that he looked good out here. He made a lot of plays and got his hands on the ball. We have to see where he gets the most reps, and I have to go through all of that with the coaches and we'll figure it out."

[whether Havili will be the starting FB]

Quote:

"Yes."

[on players with character concerns]

Quote:

"Yeah, we have a couple guys that we're giving a second chance to. They goofed up, and we felt through our evaluation process that they're not bad kids and we'll give them a chance. They know they goofed up, and that's important, and they admitted they goofed up which is really important. We'll see if there's a change that takes place."

Quote:

"We try to do our homework before we brought the guys in, and we did background checks on them. We just wanted to make sure we felt comfortable with it. Do they know that they goofed? Yeah, they know they goofed. Do they know that there aren't a lot of second chances in this world? They're getting one, so let's see what they do with it."

[Nate Allen and Kurt Coleman are our safeties going into camp]

Quote:

"Actually, you'll have Kurt (Coleman instead of Jarrett)."

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theuntouchable wrote:

Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

stevec0008 wrote:

I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland.

JayAp07

Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1603

Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject:

Eagles_808 wrote:

birdman0069 wrote:

Fred Daivs went to USC.

So much fail Laughing

I never thought birdman was such a bad troll/nay-sayer until recently. What happened?
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birdman0069

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6053
Location: Key West, FL

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:39 am Post subject:

JayAp07 wrote:

Eagles_808 wrote:

birdman0069 wrote:

Fred Daivs went to USC.

So much fail Laughing

I never thought birdman was such a bad troll/nay-sayer until recently. What happened?

I am far from a nay-sayer. I'm a realist. The problem is the select morons around here.
They build a player up and gush over him like he should be in the Hall of Fame before they set foot on an NFL feild. When the said player doesn't live up to said morons glowing expectations thay are called a bust. Because I don't expect Kendricks to be the best player takin this year, I'm a nay-sayer? Every player that people like, coming out of college, people want to talk up and make them out to be better then they are. True or false, Kendricks has holes in his game and it has nothing to do with his height.
Reading some peoples post you might think he was the 1st overall pick if you didn't know better.
UDRFA that played in a hand of plays! Not a handfull of games, a handfull of plays and people gushing about how he should make the team because he is untapped talent.
Glowing reports over a guy drafted 194th overall and how it was such a steal. Here I thought we got a guy because no one else wante with the first 193 picks.
People tend to forget that history, and odds, suggest that only 3 players we drafted will be in the NFL 4 years from now, but..... In peoples ignorance they have 7-10 rookies making our squad, making huge impacts and being good players in the league for years to come.
This is all fine and well. Then the time rolls around that people want to point to some of the these very people and suggest how smart they are or in some cases the members themselves want to tell us all how smart they are.
A bit of reality is needed around here.
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Birdman, slowest to 10K

Remixxxxxxx

Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9950
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:52 am Post subject:

Quote:

I'm sure there's a better way you could have gone about getting this point across - as opposed to saying he's never played an NFL caliber TE, which is flat out wrong.

I agree with you, everyone is getting up and way to high on Kendricks this early in the process - rookie camps mean little to nothing, more like a glorified practice. I think once TC hits we'll be able to get a better read on these guys.
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birdman0069

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6053
Location: Key West, FL

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:24 am Post subject:

Remixxxxxxx wrote:

Quote:

Who has he played against that is as good as Fred Davis, an average NFL TE? No one. There isn't a proven NFL quality TE in the PAC-12. You can sit there and speculate and say this guy will be better, but as of today there isn't a sure fire consensus top TE in the PAC-12. This the worst year for TE's in the last 10 years. Again, no quality. Looking at next years top TE's, again there is very little talent. One late 1st round prospect in Eifert.
Fauria is, at best, a 2nd round talent and after him Ertz is the only other TE form the PAC-12 and he is a 4-5th round pick.
I heard Urban Meyer speak concerning how athletes translate to the pro's.
He said every year there are a handfull of players that look like Pro Football players. After that it's a guessing game. You try to project how a guy will fit into what your team does by what he has shown in college. All the players in the SEC have an advantage, like it or not, because of the level of competition they play against week in and week out. More SEC players are drafted every year because there are more talented football players in the SEC.
Please don't give me a bunch of crap concerning Kendricks playing against NFL talent when he played the majority of his games against inferior players on average teams that put up decent numbers because they play in weak divisions.
Combine that with Kendricks tape and questioning how well he will do is the only prudent thing to do. Kendricks tape doesn't prove he can be successfull in our defensive scheme. The Eagles will ask him to do very little of what he did while at Cal.
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Props to Eagles _808 on the sig.
PE, the new poster child for birth control.

Birdman, slowest to 10K

Eagles_808

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 24806
Location: Torrance, CA

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:28 am Post subject:

birdman0069 wrote:

Well in reality, you don't need to use the word "moron" to describe those who don't agree with you and/or hype up a player too early. You have been warned about this before, so please do not do it again. I understand you feel you were called out, but maybe use different terms to describe how you feel. Thanks.
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Remixxxxxxx

Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 9950
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:38 am Post subject:

Quote:

uhm, Coby Fleener was just selected 34th overall - Joseph Fauria and Zack Ertz are second and third round prospects at this point in their carrers, Levine Toilolo is a second round prospect and barring something catastrophic Austin Seferian-Jenkins is likely to go in the middle of the first round when he's eligible. In previous years, you had the like of Gronkowski and Dickson[etc].

Where you're coming up with the PAC 12 has no talent at TE is beyond me - it probably has the most talented group of TEs out of any conference, and it has atleast 5 NFL caliber TEs.

Quote:

Please don't give me a bunch of crap concerning Kendricks playing against NFL talent when he played the majority of his games against inferior players on average teams that put up decent numbers because they play in weak divisions.

The Pac 12, regardless of what you think, is not average.

I'm not even sure it's worth talking about this with you, because clearly you've strayed down a different path then everyone else here. The Pac 12 has a ton of NFL caliber talent, and it has NFL caliber offense players[TEs, WRs]. Oregon has one of the best offenses ever and Souther Cal surely doesn't lack talent. Arizona had some offensive players drafted this year, as did Arizona State.

I do agree with you about Kendricks, but you're reasoning as to why[inferior talent] is way off. You're not someone who I disagree with often, but this time you're way off, IMO.
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JayAp07

Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1603

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:41 am Post subject:

birdman0069 wrote:

JayAp07 wrote:

Eagles_808 wrote:

birdman0069 wrote:

Fred Daivs went to USC.

So much fail Laughing

I never thought birdman was such a bad troll/nay-sayer until recently. What happened?

I'm just saying that you are jumping all over everyone lately. And by reading some of your arguments (not just this thread), I had to wonder if you are just disagreeing to disagree or what.
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Eagles_808

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 24806
Location: Torrance, CA

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject:

http://walterfootball.com/draftmailbag.php

Quote:

From twitter: "What do you make of the Eagles draft "

Quote:

I think Eagles had an excellent draft. I liked every move with the exception of one pick. In the first round, I think they did very well landing Fletcher Cox. In the short term, adding an interior pass rusher like Cox will take advantage of ends Jason Babin and Trent Cole forcing quarterbacks to step up in the pocket. In the long term, Cox could form a dynamic line with Vinny Curry and Brandon Graham. I think Curry was an excellent pick in the second round. He was a very underrated prospect who is a great scheme fit in Philadelphia.

Mychal Kendricks was a nice selection in round two, and Brandon Boykin was a steal in the fourth round. While Boykin was inconsistent in his coverage at Georgia, he could be a nice slot corner and special-teamer in the NFL. I think Philadelphia also made a great undrafted free agent signing with Chris Polk. He should provide a nice backup option to LeSean McCoy. Polk went undrafted because of medical concerns, but he has been durable in college so that is a head scratcher.

The only pick that I didn't really like was the Eagles taking Nick Foles in the third round. He's a statue of a quarterback and won't fit the offense as well as Donovan McNabb or Michael Vick. However, Andy Reid knows quarterbacks, and if he develops Foles' field vision, the big-armed pocket passer has starting potential.

This could be a draft that Eagles fans look back at as being the foundation for a very talented defense.

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Withmy89vision

Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 2723

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject:

Eagles_808 wrote:

http://walterfootball.com/draftmailbag.php

Quote:

From twitter: "What do you make of the Eagles draft "

Quote:

That's exactly how I feel about this draft
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willy_law

Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8302
Location: Villanova University

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:

Withmy89vision wrote:

Eagles_808 wrote:

http://walterfootball.com/draftmailbag.php

Quote:

From twitter: "What do you make of the Eagles draft "

Quote:

That's exactly how I feel about this draft

Same, I wouldn't have been able to say it any differently
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