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Does arm length actually matter for linemen?
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Laimbrane


Joined: 04 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Does arm length actually matter for linemen? Reply with quote

Interesting article on arm length for linemen.

http://holyschwartz.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/how-much-does-riley-reiffs-arm-length-really-matter/

As the writer points out, it's only one season, but this is intriguing evidence that the notion that arm length matters seems to be outdated and wrong.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correlation does not imply causation and PFF grades are not reliable at all.

Yes, arm length absolutely matters. When you're going up against an Aldon Smith with 35 inch arms and a powerful punch...you're going to have a lot of issues with 32 inch arms.
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adam9


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Correlation does not imply causation and PFF grades are not reliable at all.

Yes, arm length absolutely matters. When you're going up against an Aldon Smith with 35 inch arms and a powerful punch...you're going to have a lot of issues with 32 inch arms.

Exactly. I learned that through the play of T-Rex Baker


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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a bit like Arm Strength for a QB, It matters you need at least some, but past a certain point it does not become any more useful.

One would do well to not just use PFF's overall grades to evaluate something like this however. Not sure if they changed it, but it used to be that one penalty would wipe out an INT Return for TD.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
It is a bit like Arm Strength for a QB, It matters you need at least some, but past a certain point it does not become any more useful.

One would do well to not just use PFF's overall grades to evaluate something like this however. Not sure if they changed it, but it used to be that one penalty would wipe out an INT Return for TD.


It absolutely does become more useful.
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adam9


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
khodder wrote:
It is a bit like Arm Strength for a QB, It matters you need at least some, but past a certain point it does not become any more useful.

One would do well to not just use PFF's overall grades to evaluate something like this however. Not sure if they changed it, but it used to be that one penalty would wipe out an INT Return for TD.


It absolutely does become more useful.

I have to agree. Don't know how anyone could think it wouldn't help to have longer arms...
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ThorntonMelon


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with this study is pretty obvious. In order to be included in the study you have to have played over 300 snaps in the NFL last season. That is a very elite group of players and it excludes players that may have been drafted, and drafted high, but might have washed out or relegated to back up duty for a variety of reasons, including having short arms. So the study may exclude the very players that would prove its thesis.

It doesnt surprise me that among this elite group of players arm length doesnt seem to matter. Its the players that didnt make the study that are of interest.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is incredibly important for OL to be able to engage in the rusher while the DL needs to be able to disengage to make the play
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BuczNGator5


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does a bear sh*t in the woods?
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DrawABlank


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that it does for tackles (although there are notable exceptions - Joe Thomas' arms at 32.5" are shorter than Baker's for example).

I don't really believe that it does for interior players - lower body strength is by far the most vital attribute.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's like anything else. Tons of things are helpful, but very few single traits are absolute deal killers.

Joe Thomas has short arms, as does Michael Roos, and they are both dominant. However, it USUALLY makes a big difference.

Various things like the KEI (and all the variants) matter for pass rushers, but they're not deal killers (Aldon Smith is an example)
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
khodder wrote:
It is a bit like Arm Strength for a QB, It matters you need at least some, but past a certain point it does not become any more useful.

One would do well to not just use PFF's overall grades to evaluate something like this however. Not sure if they changed it, but it used to be that one penalty would wipe out an INT Return for TD.


It absolutely does become more useful.


Maybe I worded it incorrectly;

Basically you are not going to draft a guy with 36" arms over a guy with 33" arms if the film/tape/video shows the guy with the shorter arms to be the surpior player on the field.

The guy with 33" arms might be better with 36" arms, but that does not mean that any player with 36" arms is better.
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO there is a lot of BS about arm length For OT's and 43DE/34OLB

To me it's about the the tape. Does the guy show up on tape?

Arm length may mater IMO is for determining day 2 and most certainly day 3 prospects.

Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
Arm: 31 1/2. Hand: 9 1/4.

didn't seem to affect his stock.

Riley Reiff*, OT, Iowa
Arm: 33 1/4

didn't seem to affect his stock much ether
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
IMO there is a lot of BS about arm length For OT's and 43DE/34OLB

To me it's about the the tape. Does the guy show up on tape?

Arm length may mater IMO is for determining day 2 and most certainly day 3 prospects.

Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
Arm: 31 1/2. Hand: 9 1/4.

didn't seem to affect his stock.

Riley Reiff*, OT, Iowa
Arm: 33 1/4

didn't seem to affect his stock much ether


Lol arm length matters a ton especially on Day 1.

khodder wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
khodder wrote:
It is a bit like Arm Strength for a QB, It matters you need at least some, but past a certain point it does not become any more useful.

One would do well to not just use PFF's overall grades to evaluate something like this however. Not sure if they changed it, but it used to be that one penalty would wipe out an INT Return for TD.


It absolutely does become more useful.


Maybe I worded it incorrectly;

Basically you are not going to draft a guy with 36" arms over a guy with 33" arms if the film/tape/video shows the guy with the shorter arms to be the surpior player on the field.

The guy with 33" arms might be better with 36" arms, but that does not mean that any player with 36" arms is better.


You definitely worded it incorrectly. The way you worded it, you wouldn't take the guy with 36 inch arms over the guy with 33 inch arms if they both were the same on film. You said past a certain point, it doesn't matter...it does. It's just not the only component.
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DawgSoldier


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe thomas riley reif melvin ingram and dwight freeney show it is not an end all. tape/ability is the endall
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