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Presenting: The Top 50 NHL Franchise Cornerstones *6-8*
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm6492 wrote:
Wouldn't have Kane this high. He's a good player, but I would have him closer to 20-25 then 10 in all honesty.


I wouldn't have him that high personally.
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redsoxsuck05


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a good idea over who is in the top 10, but the order will be difficult.

A certain former dominant player is the wild card.
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redsoxsuck05


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't help but feel Kulikov deserves a spot. He doesn't get much attention playing in Florida but he's been a good D-Man since his 18 year old season and gotten better since.
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1BackInBlackFan


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redsoxsuck05 wrote:
mm6492 wrote:
Wouldn't have Kane this high. He's a good player, but I would have him closer to 20-25 then 10 in all honesty.


Kane really hasn't progressed much over the past few years. I understand he already set the bar high with the rookie production but he failed as a Center because he couldn't handle the defensive responsibilities.


Last season he had his wort PPG average since coming into the league. Not sure if he wasn't motivated or if his off-the-ice antics had anything to do with his lackluster play. He's not the type of player that is a leader like Toews is.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UofMfan909 wrote:
RNH as a prospect wasn't in Kane's league. Kane destroyed the OHL in his only year of major juniors. Obviously the WHL tends to have a more defensive style of play, but Kane's season was enough to have more hype than RNH. Hell, as a prospect I have Kane above Hall and Yakupov, and on par with Tavares.


Kane did receive plenty of hype gut it was based solely on scoring stats.
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bkobow05


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you change Parise's team please? It hurts too much too see it say Devils next to it. Crying or Very sad
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Good for you posting this type of thread. It generates discussion, most of which, mine included will offer differing opinion.

I have numerous thoughts but will stick with two, for now.

You missed the boat on Eberle's defensive abilities. He is incredibly gifted in the defensive game. He lead the Oulers in plus minus and really showed improvement. I would place him in the top 10 of offensive forwards when defensive game is considered.

I also disagree with how high Patrick Kane is slotted. I would rank him 5th in importance on his own team. He benefitted from a great deal of hype but isn't the type of player that can shoulder burden.

As for ranking the young Oilers it's a difficult task because of the limited years of experience.

I expect, of the four young guns Yakipov is potentially going to have the most storied career. He is incredibly gifted, NHL ready and loves the physical aspect of the game.

So much is going to depend on how these guys develop emotionally.

Taylor Hall reminds me so much of a young Mark Messier it's frightening. Only difference is Hall is much better offensively at this age than Messier was. All signs point to him being the leader of the young Oilers. It also appears he is headed for the center position this season.

Eberle has sick hands and is the most consistent of the current trio. He can play in any situation and is never a liability.

RNH has tremendous spatial orientation and a very high hockey I.Q. I'm still not certain where his upside is. He battle injuries and as a result displayed some inconsistency.

If I had to rank them it would be in terms of importance to the team and it would look like this.

Hall
Eberle
RNH

It's going to be a treat watching these kids mature together. It's also going to be fun as some of the Oilers young den make the big team.

They have an excellent core of youth and if they can move a number of contracts to bring in a top pairing damn to play with Smid they could surprise some teams this year.

I expect they are two years from being a team that is taken seriously but as the core matures and the young D report they are going to be a powerful squad.

I really wish Klefbom was staying in North America this year. That alone would make a big change.


Thanks for the input, and sorry for just replying now.

I felt my assessment of Eberle's defensive game was fair. You mention his +/- as evidence of his strong defensive game, but his on-ice goals against per 60 minutes was not stellar, in fact it was the worst mark of any Oiler forward at 3.08. His overall +/- is boosted by his stellar 3.63 on-ice goals per 60 minutes, which ranked near the top of the NHL. That's not say that I don't think he can be a solid two-way player, he certainly has the work ethic and determination that you typically see in the best of defensive forwards, but he's still got a ways to go before that part of his game really comes to fruition.

As far as Kane is concerned, I think many of you are vastly underrating his offensive abilities and potential. His tools are extremely rare, and he's just 23 years of age. That leaves him with plenty of time left to still grow and mature into a more dominant player, and god knows he needs to do more of the latter. I realize that he's not a reliable player in the d-zone, but given his track record and potential to become, IMO, one of the game's truly elite offensive players, I feel as though his ranking is suitable.

Furthermore, to call him the 5th most important player on the Blackhawks would not be accurate. Perhaps if you were to apply that to a few individual seasons, then maybe, but certainly not their Stanley Cup season. Toews led the way without question, deservingly winning the Conn Smythe, but after that it's a two-horse race between Kane and Keith, with probably Seabrook in the far distance. Hossa was hurt for a large chunk of their run and before this past year, he hadn't really displayed his usual on-ice dominance in Chicago.

Kane was 2nd amongst Hawks forwards in TOI and points during their Cup run, scoring a whopping 28 points in the process. He's a bonafide all-star and has received All-NHL honors too. To say that he can't shoulder the burden of another franchise seems like both far-fetched and unfair criticisms given that it's not his fault that he was lucky enough to be selected by a franchise with a plethora of star talent. We'll never really know if he's capable of such unless the opportunity presents itself in the future, but I would bet that he could.

Anyways, that's how I see it at least.
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a side note, I hope to have an update done by tomorrow night.
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10. John Tavares, C, Islanders



Highly touted since the age of 14, Tavares bursted onto the scene in juniors and broke the Great One's OHL goal record of 70 goals in 2007, although some scouts started to question whether or not he would live up to the initial zeal after the Canadian forward regressed to an extent in the seasons thereafter, but a monster 2009 WJ showing, in which he was named tournament MVP, ensured his status as the sure-fire #1 pick of his draft class in 2009, and that pick, to the joy of all citizens of Long Island, would belong to the Islanders.

The one knock scouts consistently pointed out when Tavares was a prospect was his less than stellar skating ability, but, IMO, because this is essentially his only inherent flaw as a hockey player, it got overanalyzed. It's not as if he's a horrible skater, and while he may lack the speed and wheels of players like Kane, Yakupov, Hall, and various other recent #1 overall picks, Tavares makes up for it with his hockey IQ, remarkable vision, and rare ability to create offensive chances. He's without question one of the most intelligent young players in the game too, and while his defensive game has never really been highlighted by scouts or analysts, he's sure to transform into a reliable d-zone presence as well due to his quick reads and exceptional poise. He's not the most vocal cat, but he works hard on every shift and leads by examples, which should enable him to wear the 'C' one day. A legit future superstar.

Tavares' 2012 campaign was by far his best yet, as he earned his 1st all-star berth, and, for a short awhile, was even in contention for the scoring title around the midpoint of the season. The humble Canadian center totaled 81 points in 82 games in all, including 50 assists, but it wasn't enough to get the lowly Islanders out of the cellar just yet. Thankfully, with the likes of Strome, El Nino, and Okposo developing simultaneously, Tavares shouldn't have to be the soul source of goals for his club's offense for very much longer. Of course, given the Islanders luck, these guys could all flame out. All kidding aside though, Tavares has improved gradually every season since breaking into the NHL in 2010, scoring 54 points in his rookie season, 67 points in 2011, and then finally, as previously mentioned, 81 last year. And at just 21 years of age, I expect these scoring totals to steadily improve, along with his all-around play too, and if this path continues without any unforeseen obstacles, it shouldn't be long before we're all calling Tavares one of the game's stars, with the ability to contend for Hart and Art Ross trophies on an annual basis. Kudos to Snow for already locking up the face of the franchise long-term.

Offensive Potential - A
Defensive Potential - B+

Tavares' magical play!

(Funny Pierre reference)


9. Erik Karlsson, D, Senators



Like most Swedish blue-liners, Karlsson worked his way up the junior ranks and eventually into the Swedish Elite League before being selected 15th overall by the Senators in 2008, a pick that has already turned out to be a steal for GM Bryan Murray. A problem that many of these prospects face is minimal playing time in the SEL because they're playing alongside professionals, which could ultimately hinder, or prolong, their development. But Karlsson, like OEK, began his NHL career just a season after being drafted, and more than held his own in spite of some growing pains.

Karlsson's style of play relies predominantly on his swift reads and exceptional skating ability, with the latter being absolutely deadly for any opponent to contain, especially if Karlsson comes flying down the ice on an odd-man rush, in which he'll likely finish off the play with a lethal snipe or beautiful pass. The young Swede certainly has his flaws too, with his defensive positioning and risk taking often coming under fire by many of his critics. His overall defensive game still needs plenty of fine-tuning to be perfectly honest with you, but the good thing here is that he's still just 22 and in many cases he can rely on his speed and athleticism to bail him out. Regardless, his impact on Ottawa's transition game and PP, which he orchestrates, makes him an invaluable asset to the club, and there isn't another blue-liner in the NHL in my estimation that is equipped with equal offensive tangibles.

I don't think anyone correctly predicted the 2012 Norris winner, but, nevertheless, it turned out to be young Erik Karlsson, who notched an amazing 78 points in 81 games for Ottawa, whilst posting a 3.26 on-ice goals for per 60 minutes and 2.54 on-ice goals against per 60 minutes. His point totals obviously led all NHL blue-liners, which was enough to sway the writers to vote in his favor. While I personally wouldn't have voted him 1st on my ballot, he was without question a deserving finalist and any fan who tries to pull the "he can't play defense" card is dead wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about. In fact, Karlsson has made tremendous strides since his rookie season defensively, and while the flaws I listed in the above still remain, every d-man goes through ups and downs early on in their careers. Karlsson's ability to force odd-man rushes and create offensive chances is already unparalleled league-wide amongst blue-liners, and given his monstrous performance this past year, I'm fully comfortable making such a concrete statement. It's a testament to his uncanny ability to wreak havoc with the puck on his stick, and at just 22 years of age, I can't wait to see what else this kid has in store for us. More Norris trophies are likely on the horizon.

Offensive Potential - A+
Defensive Potential - B-

Karlsson snipes
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

last two picks are very good. I'm eager to see who is in the top 8.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be frank, I would take JT over Karlsson.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

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playmaker8267


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
To be frank, I would take JT over Karlsson.
Same here. At this very moment, I would take Karlsson. Since we're considering what these players' potentials are though, I have to take Tavares. I truly think Tavares is one of those players who can be as good as he wants to be. And he's getting significantly better every. single. year.

Right now the top players in the NHL are Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, Giroux. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Tavares catapulted into that mix this season, much like Giroux did last year. I don't know about 65 assists given the guys around him, but ~85 points with 40+ goals? It's very possible.

That offensive ability combined with good forechecking ability and reliability in the other two zones make for one heck of a player. One I value over a superlative offensive defenseman.
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redsoxsuck05


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playmaker8267 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
To be frank, I would take JT over Karlsson.
Same here. At this very moment, I would take Karlsson. Since we're considering what these players' potentials are though, I have to take Tavares. I truly think Tavares is one of those players who can be as good as he wants to be. And he's getting significantly better every. single. year.

Right now the top players in the NHL are Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, Giroux. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Tavares catapulted into that mix this season, much like Giroux did last year. I don't know about 65 assists given the guys around him, but ~85 points with 40+ goals? It's very possible.

That offensive ability combined with good forechecking ability and reliability in the other two zones make for one heck of a player. One I value over a superlative offensive defenseman.


Tavares came into the league with outstanding hockey sense, character, passing ability, and not much else. But he has improved every one of his faults drastically.

I now consider him a good skater and you can see him get quite a few breakaways. He's very hard to push off the puck or off balance. Always a very hard worker. He's also made a commitment to his defensive game although not quite a top PKer.

I just can't put enough emphasis on this guy's character. Anyone can succeed with this guy even if they are a journeyman AHLer. I truly believe he wants to win a cup on LI and he signed an extension that takes him into his UFA years a year early. You never know with guys like Zach Parise, but I think Tavares means much more to this organization than Parise ever did to the Devils.

All I want JT to do is improve his shot, physical game, and get more confident in the SO. He's a natural leader and you can see it when he takes the coaching board from our Flinstonian coach and draws up a play. I don't know how vocal he'll be but he reminds me of Eli in a way.

I'm actually fine with Karlsson ahead of Tavares by one spot. They both have potential through the roof but Karlsson-type players are a rarity these days. Obviously he must improve his defensive positioning but he already is. It's arbitrary anyway.
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BirdsFan06050


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To sum it up as simply as humanely possible: Karlsson was given the slight edge due to production and position. It's by no means a knock on JT.

As redosoxsuck dutifully noted, both have sky rocket upside.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have time for a full update tonight, look for that around Sunday, but here's 10 guys to watch for in the future who did not qualify for the list:

In no particular order;

-Alex Galchenyuk
-Mikael Granlund
-Dougie Hamilton
-Chris Kreider
-Ryan Murray
-Jakub Silfverberg
-Jaden Schwartz
-Justin Schultz
-Vladimir Tarasenko
-Nail Yakupov

Will post a similar HM list before the top 5.
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