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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I remember just a few short years ago, when professional wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife, son and took his own life, there was a huge group of people that stated that he couldn't have done this because of psychological changes in the way he perceived the world due to brain injuries simply because, and I quote, "Mick Foley [another professional wrestler] had 9 concussions and he has never done something like this." This wasn't just one person making this statement, this was the understanding of an entire groups of people; they believed that the only way that you could have serious impacts from head trauma was with multiple concussions, and that the only measure for the trauma was in volume combined with extreme severity. If that many people clearly misunderstood the issue in 2007, how can we say that it was common sense in the 80's, 90's or early 2000's?
The talk (at least in the media) around Steve Young when he retired was that he needed to retire when he did because "one more concussion" might lead to him having long term damage. It wasn't that he had already sustained damage through multiple shots, it was that the "freak accident" shots that were the cause of concussions might lead themselves to allowing him to get another concussion easier, which could be the one that causes the damage.
It was never understood that players that never got a single concussion are at virtually the exact same risk for long term damage as those who receive multiple concussions. Nobody 15 years ago would have suspected that Chris Henry, who only played 55 NFL games and never sustained a concussion would have brain damage, but yet he did.
If the NFL knew this information, as these players are alleging, and didn't disclose that to the players, as is being charged, that's a very big no-no.
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DontTazeMeBro
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that.
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iPwn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that. |
It's not that these people were saying "I think it was steroids, not brain injuries;" they were flat out dismissing that brain trauma could even be a possibility because he didn't have as many concussions as this other guy that worked in the same field and seems to be doing alright. People just didn't understand that brain trauma went much further than just simply the amount of serious concussions that you had. That was my point. Whether Benoit's case was related to CTEs or something else isn't relevant to the point I was making.
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mistakebytehlak
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that. |
one of them had dementia. pretty bad dementia- so bad that his brain looked like a 70 year old's brain... with dementia.
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DontTazeMeBro
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that. |
one of them had dementia. pretty bad dementia- so bad that his brain looked like a 70 year old's brain... with dementia. |
The steroid user. Not the one with 9 concussions.
Seperate thought. They haven't been looking at the brains of players who died of cancer or heart disease. Of the brains they have looked at, they don't know which ones used steroids or other dangerous drugs. So they don't really know what caused CTE, how many players lived their whole lives normally with CTE, or what behaviors were caused by CTE. So how can you prove the NFL knew about this and covered it up when they are pretty early in their research of this and don't really have any concrete facts?
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iPwn
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | The steroid user. Not the one with 9 concussions. |
There's no link between steroids and irreversible dementia. There is, however, a link between subconcussive blows (like say from doing flying headbutts twice a week for 10 years) and that type of brain trauma.
| Quote: | | Seperate thought. They haven't been looking at the brains of players who died of cancer or heart disease. Of the brains they have looked at, they don't know which ones used steroids or other dangerous drugs. So they don't really know what caused CTE, how many players lived their whole lives normally with CTE, or what behaviors were caused by CTE. So how can you prove the NFL knew about this and covered it up when they are pretty early in their research of this and don't really have any concrete facts? |
They absolutely know what causes CTE. It's in the name, chronic traumatic encephalopathy; multiple traumas to the head.
According to the players, the NFL was apparently given the results of research that showed that CTE can be caused not only by serious head trauma, but by seemingly harmless subconcussive hits as well and the NFL deliberately tried to hide this information from the players. Maybe the players have information from the research group that presented the research to the NFL?
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The Cryptkeeper
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2464
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | mistakebytehlak wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that. |
one of them had dementia. pretty bad dementia- so bad that his brain looked like a 70 year old's brain... with dementia. |
The steroid user. Not the one with 9 concussions.
Seperate thought. They haven't been looking at the brains of players who died of cancer or heart disease. Of the brains they have looked at, they don't know which ones used steroids or other dangerous drugs. So they don't really know what caused CTE, how many players lived their whole lives normally with CTE, or what behaviors were caused by CTE. So how can you prove the NFL knew about this and covered it up when they are pretty early in their research of this and don't really have any concrete facts? |
Because the NFL hired experts to specifically refute the findings in studies done in the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA). The NFL's doctor was the only one to attempt to refute the findings. The NFL denied a link as late as a couple years ago between head trauma and dimentia despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
I've read books like Head Games and Spiral of Denial along with whatever articles I could find online as I came across them. My impression after having read all of it is that the NFL shares more in common with tobacco companies actively hiding and denying the risks of the sport in the face of overwhelming evidence and doing what's in "the public's best interest" only when Congress comes a' knockin. Once that happened, the league did a total 180. |
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DontTazeMeBro
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:19 am Post subject: |
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | mistakebytehlak wrote: | | DontTazeMeBro wrote: | | Chris Benoit was ripped where as Foley is a fat dude. Both had a history of concussions. Only one of them was a likely steroid user. I wouldn't just dismiss that. |
one of them had dementia. pretty bad dementia- so bad that his brain looked like a 70 year old's brain... with dementia. |
The steroid user. Not the one with 9 concussions.
Seperate thought. They haven't been looking at the brains of players who died of cancer or heart disease. Of the brains they have looked at, they don't know which ones used steroids or other dangerous drugs. So they don't really know what caused CTE, how many players lived their whole lives normally with CTE, or what behaviors were caused by CTE. So how can you prove the NFL knew about this and covered it up when they are pretty early in their research of this and don't really have any concrete facts? |
Because the NFL hired experts to specifically refute the findings in studies done in the Journal of American Medical Association (JAMA). The NFL's doctor was the only one to attempt to refute the findings. The NFL denied a link as late as a couple years ago between head trauma and dimentia despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. |
When? If it was in the 90s or before whenever it became an issue, then yeah that looks a little shady. But obviously you are going to try to refute the claims after it comes up and you know it will probably lead to a lawsuit.
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