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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: LORK on the sig
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Apollo Stallion wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | Sometimes its like talking to a wall to some of you, this is not about REPLACING Schaub, its about prioritizing WHO YOU SIGN FIRST Brown is more important to the long term of our FRANCHISE. He will be here when old Matty hangs them up, he protects the blindside, he is a top 5 player at his position and he is significantly younger. He is the smarter purchase. No where have I said NOT to re-sign Matt so quit crying. I simply think you need to pay Brown and then base Matts contract off what you have left over. Matt would be terrible without Brown, but Brown will still be great with someone else in there at QB. Pay the protector, then pay the qb. Will you people start learning to read through my garbage to get to the facts  |
Okay, as long as we're cycling back to points we made a week ago, I don't recall a response to this point:
| Quote: | | The day an LT is more important than the QB he protects is the day the Dolphins (Jake Long) and Browns (Joe Thomas) make the playoffs behind Chad Henne and Colt McCoy. I grew up with Dan Dierdorf as a perennial Pro Bowler which was great except Jim Hart was the QB he was protecting. The Ravens might have more than 1 Super Bowl if Jonathan Ogden had better QBs to protect. For the record, Duane Brown is a ZBS specific LT who has never been to a Pro Bowl that doesn't belong in the same paragraph as Long or Thomas better yet Ogden or Dierdorf. He's definitely on the verge of being mentioned with the top 6-10 LTs in the league, but not ahead of our QB who is top 10 all-time QBR right now. Remind me who the LTs were for the Giants, Packers, Saints, Steelers, Giants, Colts vs. their QBs the past 6 Super Bowls. I'm probably forgetting about someone, but Ogden may be the last dominant LT for a Super Bowl champ and that was a decade ago now. |
Now that we're up to date, perhaps you could explain to me how "terrible" Matt Schaub was in 2010 with Duane Brown on the sidelines for his steroid suspension and journeyman Rashad Butler easily stepped into his shoes. As a matter of fact we went on a 4 game losing streak immediately after Brown returned. If there is a "product of the system" it's the ZBS and the fact that Duane Brown was a sack allowed machine until Wade Smith got here. |
First off, in 2010, we were 3-1 because Foster dominated the Colts, we beat a defense WORSE than ours in Washington, in a shoot out, we lost to the Cowboys while Matt threw 2 picks and we barely beat a terrible Oakland team. To consider anything from 2010 relevant is crazy IMO because our team was garbage and we had some stupid injuries and suspensions and our defense was atrocious.
All those super bowl winning teams had Lts who were with their teams for years and are all top 15 at their position. If you want to be ridiculous about it, why not trade Foster and load up with wide outs because all those teams were bad at running the ball when they won their super bowls. Does that mean its not important? LT IMO will always be a high priority, regardless of how much a qb makes or what you say. You do whatever it takes to protect the QB and thus in my mind, you prioritize that first.
And to allude that Wade Smith made Brown better is equally ridiculous. It has more to do with experience gained and more years in the trenches. The guy was getting better every year, we just happened to sign a journey man LG the year he really caught fire.
Might as well trade Brown with Foster because Butler is the better choice and the run game is pointless, isn't that right oh great one? |
Which would be better for us
Brown protecting Yates or Butler protecting Schaub?
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out
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longhorntexan
Joined: 09 Nov 2011
Posts: 173
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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1. Schaub
2. Brown
There is little doubt in my mind that both will be back though.
I believe Quin should be an easy get, and every other person mentioned could be readily replaced besides Barwin.
I could definitely see Barwin walking if Mercilus shows us enough this year. Both he and Reed are here for a few more years and would be fairly cheap.
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texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 25017
Location: Kempes on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out |
You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"
Cop out.
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| DallasInHeart wrote: | | Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level |
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bunnyracin
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: |
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The rumor is Percy Harvin wants to be traded. Yes, I know this will never happen but for the past few years I always pictured him being our perfect number 2 guy..... just dreamin
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jch1911
Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| bunnyracin wrote: | | The rumor is Percy Harvin wants to be traded. Yes, I know this will never happen but for the past few years I always pictured him being our perfect number 2 guy..... just dreamin |
THIS! Just saw it too.... I would be all over it.
Based on our likely compensatory picks in 2013, we will have a 3rd, 5th, and two 6ths.
Harvin's contract numbers:
2012: $915K base + $1.6M bonuses (MN eats)
2013: $1.55M base + $440K bonuses (MN eats)
Based on that I would offer the Vikings a 2013 2nd round pick and a 2013 4th round pick. Plus, I would make the trade contingent on several factors (i.e. games played, awards received, team performance, etc.) to make it fair. For example, if the Harvin plays something like 70% of offensive snaps, makes the Pro Bowl at WR, and / or Texans make the Super Bowl, the 2nd becomes a 1st and the 4th becomes a 3rd.
If Harvin fails to play the required snaps, the 2nd becomes a 3rd and the 4th becomes a 5th.
I would also tell Harvin's people that he plays this year under the contract he has and we would definitely compensate him handsomely if he and the Texans perform well in the playoffs.
I know most of this is a no-brainer from our side, but like bunnyracin intimated the idea has my head racing!  
PS bunnyracin, I do not know how you beat me to the post! You must be faster than a cottontail!  |
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Texansfan713
Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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Location: Houston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| bunnyracin wrote: | | The rumor is Percy Harvin wants to be traded. Yes, I know this will never happen but for the past few years I always pictured him being our perfect number 2 guy..... just dreamin |
I would be ecstatic if we got Harvin as a Texan. He is my favorite player in the NFL, and the perfect compliment to Andre as a number 2/slot type receiver. I would be first in line to buy his jersey too. 
Only thing that would concern me is his injury problems though.
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kenney
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Texansfan713 wrote: | | bunnyracin wrote: | | The rumor is Percy Harvin wants to be traded. Yes, I know this will never happen but for the past few years I always pictured him being our perfect number 2 guy..... just dreamin |
I would be ecstatic if we got Harvin as a Texan. He is my favorite player in the NFL, and the perfect compliment to Andre as a number 2/slot type receiver. I would be first in line to buy his jersey too.
Only thing that would concern me is his injury problems though. |
Do I want Harvin?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: I'm concerned about a malcontent with migraine and injury issues warranting a trade, but if he could be had for a 3rd and 7th or something, we'd be stupid not to do it considering we'll have extra picks in both of those rounds via compensatory picks next year. Harvin is the sort of established dynamic playmaker that gives us room to let Jean and the rookies grow into themselves. I expect Posey to be heading for IR if we were to make this trade, though.
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texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I heard he had overcome his migraine issue.
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| DallasInHeart wrote: | | Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level |
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 13376
Location: Elkhorn, WI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| texans_uk wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out |
You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"
Cop out. |
Ok, MAYBE at this point in their careers I over valued Matt H, BUT in the early 200s he was better.
I guess my point was Matt Schaub is nothing special. A solid QB no doubt, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the mobility department and far too often wide outs have to sit and wait for the ball, meaning lack of arm strength. The system we run depends a lot on film study, timing and accuracy. I think we could find someone with better attributes and the same ability to learn our offense under Gary.
Again, Im not saying get rid of Matt, well deep down I am, but for this thread, Im simply saying I VALUE Brown higher than Matt. Matt has yet to stay healthy consecutive years and you cannot simply ignore that because he gives you a hard on, the guy has flaws and when it comes down to spending tens of millions of dollars, you have to prioritize and he is not number 1 going into next off-season.
He will fall even farther off the charts if he gets injured again this season.
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | texans_uk wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out |
You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"
Cop out. |
Ok, MAYBE at this point in their careers I over valued Matt H, BUT in the early 200s he was better.
I guess my point was Matt Schaub is nothing special. A solid QB no doubt, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the mobility department and far too often wide outs have to sit and wait for the ball, meaning lack of arm strength. The system we run depends a lot on film study, timing and accuracy. I think we could find someone with better attributes and the same ability to learn our offense under Gary.
Again, Im not saying get rid of Matt, well deep down I am, but for this thread, Im simply saying I VALUE Brown higher than Matt. Matt has yet to stay healthy consecutive years and you cannot simply ignore that because he gives you a hard on, the guy has flaws and when it comes down to spending tens of millions of dollars, you have to prioritize and he is not number 1 going into next off-season.
He will fall even farther off the charts if he gets injured again this season. |
1st bold: False. 2009 and 2010
2nd bold: Against the rules don't do that again. You can't post vulgar stuff
You write off Schaub too easilly. You make it sound like anyone can come in here and lead the league in yards or yards per catch. If it were so easy to find a QB teams wouldn't be struggling for decades to do it. No one is ignoring his injury history. We recognize they were fluke injuries and not ones likely to cause further problems. And most importantly we recognize that having a good QB is infinitely more important than a LT and harder to find.
I asked you a question earlier and you answered. I have to say I have never disagreed with an opinion more in my life.
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amazingandre
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mse326 wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | texans_uk wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out |
You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"
Cop out. |
Ok, MAYBE at this point in their careers I over valued Matt H, BUT in the early 200s he was better.
I guess my point was Matt Schaub is nothing special. A solid QB no doubt, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the mobility department and far too often wide outs have to sit and wait for the ball, meaning lack of arm strength. The system we run depends a lot on film study, timing and accuracy. I think we could find someone with better attributes and the same ability to learn our offense under Gary.
Again, Im not saying get rid of Matt, well deep down I am, but for this thread, Im simply saying I VALUE Brown higher than Matt. Matt has yet to stay healthy consecutive years and you cannot simply ignore that because he gives you a hard on, the guy has flaws and when it comes down to spending tens of millions of dollars, you have to prioritize and he is not number 1 going into next off-season.
He will fall even farther off the charts if he gets injured again this season. |
1st bold: False. 2009 and 2010
2nd bold: Against the rules don't do that again. You can't post vulgar stuff
You write off Schaub too easilly. You make it sound like anyone can come in here and lead the league in yards or yards per catch. If it were so easy to find a QB teams wouldn't be struggling for decades to do it. No one is ignoring his injury history. We recognize they were fluke injuries and not ones likely to cause further problems. And most importantly we recognize that having a good QB is infinitely more important than a LT and harder to find.
I asked you a question earlier and you answered. I have to say I have never disagreed with an opinion more in my life. |
And in the 2 years he was healthy he was 2:1 TD to INT ratio, HOF BABY!!!! 
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 13513
Location: LORK on the sig
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| amazingandre wrote: | | mse326 wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | texans_uk wrote: | | amazingandre wrote: | | Brown protecting our future Qb, if its Yates then so be it.....JMHO, take it or leave it, im out |
You can't just say Hasselbeck > Schaub and then say "I'm out"
Cop out. |
Ok, MAYBE at this point in their careers I over valued Matt H, BUT in the early 200s he was better.
I guess my point was Matt Schaub is nothing special. A solid QB no doubt, but he leaves a lot to be desired in the mobility department and far too often wide outs have to sit and wait for the ball, meaning lack of arm strength. The system we run depends a lot on film study, timing and accuracy. I think we could find someone with better attributes and the same ability to learn our offense under Gary.
Again, Im not saying get rid of Matt, well deep down I am, but for this thread, Im simply saying I VALUE Brown higher than Matt. Matt has yet to stay healthy consecutive years and you cannot simply ignore that because he gives you a hard on, the guy has flaws and when it comes down to spending tens of millions of dollars, you have to prioritize and he is not number 1 going into next off-season.
He will fall even farther off the charts if he gets injured again this season. |
1st bold: False. 2009 and 2010
2nd bold: Against the rules don't do that again. You can't post vulgar stuff
You write off Schaub too easilly. You make it sound like anyone can come in here and lead the league in yards or yards per catch. If it were so easy to find a QB teams wouldn't be struggling for decades to do it. No one is ignoring his injury history. We recognize they were fluke injuries and not ones likely to cause further problems. And most importantly we recognize that having a good QB is infinitely more important than a LT and harder to find.
I asked you a question earlier and you answered. I have to say I have never disagreed with an opinion more in my life. |
And in the 2 years he was healthy he was 2:1 TD to INT ratio, HOF BABY!!!! |
Who ever said Hall of Fame? Just because they aren't HOF doesn't mean they are easilly replaced.
As for your 2:1 ratio quip.
Here was your list of those ahead of Schaub
Tom Brady- He beat that
Aaron Rodgers - He beat that
Peyton Manning - 2009 barely over that and 2010 below that
Drew Brees - he beat it in 2009 and 2011 and was no where close in 2010
Phillip Rivers- beat it in 2009 and 2010 and was no where close in 2011
Big Ben - barely in 2009, yes in 2010, no where close in 2011
Matt Ryan - No where close in 2009, yes in 2010 and 2011
Eli Manning - hasn't done it in the last 3 years, 2010 in particular was horrendous
Mike Vick - yes 2010 no where close in 2011
Matt Stafford - leaving aside the fact you are against Schaub for injury risk and he's only been healthy 1 year which he did beat it soundly
Matt Hasselbeck- Hilarious given his last 3 years (I'll give you credit for backtracking on him)
Schaub also had a substantial sample size last year where he beat it fairly soundly.
2:1 is hardly as pedestrian as you make it sound. It certainly isn't easilly replaceable if you want a QB to do any type of work.
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texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:49 am Post subject: |
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How can one troll his own team?
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| DallasInHeart wrote: | | Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level |
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jargin
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 7038
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Lets be honest this game is about one thing winning super bowls. This team has a better chance of winning one with Schaub at the qb position than with anyone else. That is obvious to me.
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