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| "Do you believe that Tony Romo has the most pressure out of any current playing non Super Bowl wining quarterback to win a Super Bowl?" |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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sodakcowboy78
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 336
Location: sioux falls so dak
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 Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Kevin Durant is NOT a household name and OKC is not a household NBA city....in my opinion.
Lets get back to it shall we.
Talking about NFL QBs...Because it was Romo's name that was mentioned...i will stick with NFL QBs.
I really dont sense that the general public believes its Romo that is the problem...more just a Cowboys theme.
Now...my pick...Mark Sanchez..high profile draft pick in a high profile city and how many AFC Championship games?
Its tough to pick an NFL Player at this point...most high profile NFL greates have their titles...nobody is really comparable to LJames getting his. And I really think nobody in the NBA is in the same boat either. Especially not Durant. Maybe Mello up in NY...Maybe Durant in 5 or 6 years.
But in the NFL its all about the QB...
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Durant has been voted on to the Western Conference All-Star team's starting lineup the last two years, won the 2012 All-Star MVP award, is the 3-time defending scoring champion, and finished runner-up in MVP voting this year. Durant is a household name. And to base one's opinion on OKC "not being an NBA city" is asinine because in this day of social media and the internet the size of the city is irrelevant. We saw that with Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton in Seattle, and John Stockton and Karl Malone in Utah. Heck, the NBA has been well ahead of the mass media marketing of its players for decades, where players like Oscar Robertson (Cincinnati, Milwaukee), Bill Walton (Portland), Clyde Drexler (Portland), Dominique Wilkins (Atlanta) and many others become household names despite playing in small markets.
And Plan, can you even call people, such as your mother, a "casual basketball fan"? If so, that's a really loose definition, as to me a casual basketball fan would know who Kevin Durant is, especially given his on-court successes.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | Durant has been voted on to the Western Conference All-Star team's starting lineup the last two years, won the 2012 All-Star MVP award, is the 3-time defending scoring champion, and finished runner-up in MVP voting this year. Durant is a household name. And to base one's opinion on OKC "not being an NBA city" is asinine because in this day of social media and the internet the size of the city is irrelevant. We saw that with Kevin Garnett in Minnesota, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton in Seattle, and John Stockton and Karl Malone in Utah. Heck, the NBA has been well ahead of the mass media marketing of its players for decades, where players like Oscar Robertson (Cincinnati, Milwaukee), Bill Walton (Portland), Clyde Drexler (Portland), Dominique Wilkins (Atlanta) and many others become household names despite playing in small markets.
And Plan, can you even call people, such as your mother, a "casual basketball fan"? If so, that's a really loose definition, as to me a casual basketball fan would know who Kevin Durant is, especially given his on-court successes. |
I said a casual sports fans, TSSS, not my mother, nor casual basketball fans. Again, I used her as an allegory. I said people like her (casual sports fans who don't follow things closely), not her specifically. God grief, guys, READ.
Like I said numerous times, Durant is not in the upper echelon of players YET. He is not a household name to those who don't follow basketball in the way that guys like Romo, A-Rod, Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, etc are to their respective sports. This shouldn't even be up for debate. Even suggesting that he is on their level is absurd. That was my point. Players like the ones I listed are true household names to people who don't even follow sports. Durant isn't nearly at that level.
I also find it pathetic that NYFDB can't understand allegory. You seem to insist that I based my assessment on my mother when I explained that I did not. Again NYFDB, READ MY POSTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY. Then, take some time to think about that the statement means!For a marketing major, you sure lack reading comprehension skills.
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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TD-ES-JJ
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well let's put it this way. If Romo played for the Cleveland Browns would anyone care if he didn't win a Super Bowl? Where would people rate him if he produced the same results in Seattle?
Bottom line, Romo is burdened by being the QB for America's Team and until he wins it all anything he does will never be enough...ask Danny White what it feels like to be a great QB with great stats on America's Team and not win a championship.
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | I said a casual sports fans, TSSS, not my mother, nor casual basketball fans. Again, I used her as an allegory. I said people like her (casual sports fans who don't follow things closely), not her specifically. God grief, guys, READ.
Like I said numerous times, Durant is not in the upper echelon of players YET. He is not a household name to those who don't follow basketball in the way that guys like Romo, A-Rod, Tiger Woods, Peyton Manning, etc are to their respective sports. This shouldn't even be up for debate. Even suggesting that he is on their level is absurd. That was my point. Players like the ones I listed are true household names to people who don't even follow sports. Durant isn't nearly at that level. |
I think Durant is more well known than Romo, but that's hard to say.
Tim Tebow is probably more well known than Romo and probably a host of other stars, including Durant. Does this mean he's a "first tier superstar"? What about Kris Humphries? Lamar Odom? All likely more well known with people because of the media, not because of their on-field success.
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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So I asked my mom.... Turns out, she knows who Tony Romo, Kevin Durant, and Tiger Woods are. She said the name Peyton Manning sounded familiar, but didn't know who he was. She had no clue who Alex Rodriguez was...
Plan9, I've read and re-read your posts in this tread very carefully. And yet I still see no shred of any evidence to support your argument. Just saying that "casual fans" don't know who Kevin Durant is doesn't make it so.
It is apparently you who has not been reading posts carefully. TSSS and I have given you actual data to back up our assertion that Durant is a superstar. Give me some kind of evidence. That's all I'm asking for.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | So I asked my mom.... Turns out, she knows who Tony Romo, Kevin Durant, and Tiger Woods are. She said the name Peyton Manning sounded familiar, but didn't know who he was. She had no clue who Alex Rodriguez was...
Plan9, I've read and re-read your posts in this tread very carefully. And yet I still see no shred of any evidence to support your argument. Just saying that "casual fans" don't know who Kevin Durant is doesn't make it so.
It is apparently you who has not been reading posts carefully. TSSS and I have given you actual data to back up our assertion that Durant is a superstar. Give me some kind of evidence. That's all I'm asking for. |
And what "data" would that be, NYFDB? A statement that he won scoring titles? Those aren't voted on. The statement that he was voted on for the All-Star Game? Casual fans who don't follow the regular season don't typically participate in those polls. MVP Voting? Same thing.
In other words, that "data" is comprised by people who follow the sport, not by those who don't, thus making it skewed and not viable. And, did you ask your mom how often she participated in the voting for the NBA All Star game? Or whether she knew who the NBA MVP was?
What this means is that I don't have to go around and conduct a collection of surveys to "prove" my statement. But if it'll make you feel better, I asked my mother, my mother-in-law, my wife, both of my sisters-in-law, my sister, and my aunt, and only one of them knew who Kevin Durant was. That was the younger sister-in-law, who happens to be a passionate Lakers fan.
Happy now?
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Your argument has three big problems:
1) You haven't defined what a "casual fan" is.
To me, a casual fan probably watched the NBA finals. If they don't, I don't see how you could consider them any type of fan. Certainly a "casual football fan" watches the Super Bowl. Therefore, they would have heard of Durant.
2) You haven't given any reason as to why "casual fans" are the barometer for super-stardom.
Like when I responded to your earlier marketing comment, Apple isn't the biggest brand in the world because Plan9's mom knows who they are, despite the fact that she still uses a typewriter. They are the biggest brand in the world because his super model wife waits in line overnight to buy a laptop, phone, and MP3 player.
The champions of your brand are often a very good measure of how powerful your brand is. So things like Jersey sales and All Star voting are absolutely relevant to this conversation.
3) You have given us absolutely no evidence that these "casual fans" don't, in fact, know who Kevin Durant is.
Just because you think it inside your head, doesn't make it true. Unless you are some sort of world renowned expert in athlete branding. In which case you should have probably pointed out those credentials a long time ago. So I'm going to ask, once again, please give me some kind of evidence that your argument is, in fact, the case.
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Finally, just did a little test on Google Adwords. Kevin Durant blows Tony Romo out of the water in Global Monthly Searches by about just about 83%. In fact, for the players being mentioned, the rankings go:
1) Tiger Woods
2) LeBron James
3) Peyton Manning
4) Kevin Durant
5) Alex Rodriguez
6) Tony Romo
So please, enlighten me as to what I'm missing. Give me one shred of evidence that he is not a superstar.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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NYFDB, your blatant inability to recognize allegory is pathetic. Again, READ MY POSTS. How many times do I need to say that it's PEOPLE LIKE HER, not her specifically? Are your comprehension skills that poor? Seriously?
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line, Plan9 is you have be presented with a slew of evidence that Kevin Durant is a superstar: Jersey sales, All-Star fan voting, Google searches.
But here's one more:
Bloomberg Businessweek with some experts in sports marketing, developed rankings for the worlds most "powerful athletes". The criteria for which includes pretty much your definition of a superstar:
| Bloomberg Businessweek wrote: | | off-field metrics as athletes’ name and face awareness, appeal, influence, and trustworthiness using Nielsen/E-Poll N-Score data |
Kevin Durant ranked #17, and that was before his run to the NBA finals. Kobe Bryant, one of your superstars for comparison's sake, ranked #13.
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All you can give me is allegory to support your point. Nothing but pure conjecture and claims that are backed by absolutely no evidence.
Give me a break.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Give you a break? Are you insane? Did you read who the top guys were? You just proved my point!
1. Drew Brees
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. LeBron James
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Roger Federer
7. Shaq
8. Shaun White
9. Novak Djokovic
10. Calvin Johnson
Other notables:
12. Tiger Woods
13. Kobe Bryant
Like I said, he's not a household name compared to the major guys YET. He's a big name to basketball fans and is on the cusp of being a major superstar, but he isn't there yet. The Finals really helped him, but he is not talked about in the same way that guys I listed are simply because he hasn't gotten to that point in his career. Will he? I'd say yes. Has he yet? No, he has not.
To futher prove my point, read the write-up:
| Quote: | | Why he’s on the list: This young superstar-in-the-making has notched two seasons as the NBA’s top scorer and led Oklahoma to back-to-back playoff berths. He signed with Nike shortly after the draft and has been courted by other blue chip companies ever since. |
Key term: Superstar-in-the-making. Meaning: HE'S NOT A SUPERSTAR YET.
My God man, wake up and smell the toast burning. Your "proof" just caused you to lose your own argument.
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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Nextyearfordaboyz
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | Give you a break? Are you insane? Did you read who the top guys were? You just proved my point!
1. Drew Brees
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. LeBron James
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Roger Federer
7. Shaq
8. Shaun White
9. Novak Djokovic
10. Calvin Johnson
Other notables:
12. Tiger Woods
13. Kobe Bryant
Like I said, he's not a household name compared to the major guys YET. He's a big name to basketball fans and is on the cusp of being a major superstar, but he isn't there yet. The Finals really helped him, but he is not talked about in the same way that guys I listed are simply because he hasn't gotten to that point in his career. Will he? I'd say yes. Has he yet? No, he has not.
To futher prove my point, read the write-up:
| Quote: | | Why he’s on the list: This young superstar-in-the-making has notched two seasons as the NBA’s top scorer and led Oklahoma to back-to-back playoff berths. He signed with Nike shortly after the draft and has been courted by other blue chip companies ever since. |
Key term: Superstar-in-the-making. Meaning: HE'S NOT A SUPERSTAR YET.
My God man, wake up and smell the toast burning. Your "proof" just caused you to lose your own argument. |
Did you miss the part where that was before he got his 3rd scoring title and led the Thunder to the NBA championship? Yup, that's when he turned into a superstar.
Give me some shred of evidence. Something. It seems to be awfully difficult for you.
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eternalsoldier
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 1176
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| If KD isn't a superstar, then I give up all hope of the Cowboys ever winning a super bowl in my lifetime... |
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Nextyearfordaboyz wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | Give you a break? Are you insane? Did you read who the top guys were? You just proved my point!
1. Drew Brees
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. LeBron James
5. Rafael Nadal
6. Roger Federer
7. Shaq
8. Shaun White
9. Novak Djokovic
10. Calvin Johnson
Other notables:
12. Tiger Woods
13. Kobe Bryant
Like I said, he's not a household name compared to the major guys YET. He's a big name to basketball fans and is on the cusp of being a major superstar, but he isn't there yet. The Finals really helped him, but he is not talked about in the same way that guys I listed are simply because he hasn't gotten to that point in his career. Will he? I'd say yes. Has he yet? No, he has not.
To futher prove my point, read the write-up:
| Quote: | | Why he’s on the list: This young superstar-in-the-making has notched two seasons as the NBA’s top scorer and led Oklahoma to back-to-back playoff berths. He signed with Nike shortly after the draft and has been courted by other blue chip companies ever since. |
Key term: Superstar-in-the-making. Meaning: HE'S NOT A SUPERSTAR YET.
My God man, wake up and smell the toast burning. Your "proof" just caused you to lose your own argument. |
Did you miss the part where that was before he got his 3rd scoring title and led the Thunder to the NBA championship? Yup, that's when he turned into a superstar.
Give me some shred of evidence. Something. It seems to be awfully difficult for you. |
Nice dodge, NYFDB. His accomplishments on the court are making him a superstar in basketball, yet you still can't grasp the difference between being a superstar beyond the sport you play in vs being known off the court simply by your reputation. Durant is not at that point yet, even though he led OKC to the Finals. He's not a major household name at this point. He's not in that upper echelon of athlete, and few people are. So what "evidence" would you like? I already sampled every living member of my immediate family who are causal sports fans. Would you like me to ask the dead ones? Did you want me to walk around my neighborhood and do a survey to make you feel better? Or, is your common sense and ability to differentiate between being a superstar in your own sport and those that sport's fans and being a superstar because of the brand you have established regardless of your sport so poor that you can't even admit your mistake when your "defense" even disproves your point?
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | Nice dodge, NYFDB. His accomplishments on the court are making him a superstar in basketball, yet you still can't grasp the difference between being a superstar beyond the sport you play in vs being known off the court simply by your reputation. Durant is not at that point yet, even though he led OKC to the Finals. He's not a major household name at this point. He's not in that upper echelon of athlete, and few people are. So what "evidence" would you like? I already sampled every living member of my immediate family who are causal sports fans. Would you like me to ask the dead ones? Did you want me to walk around my neighborhood and do a survey to make you feel better? Or, is your common sense and ability to differentiate between being a superstar in your own sport and those that sport's fans and being a superstar because of the brand you have established regardless of your sport so poor that you can't even admit your mistake when your "defense" even disproves your point? |
Every sportswriter and analysts would consider Kevin Durant a superstar. What you're talking about is a "media star", where the average person, who may or may not follow sports, knows about the person. Because a person may be known by a good portion of the population doesn't mean s/he is a superstar.
For instance, Anna Kournikova was immensely popular because of her physical appearance. However, she wasn't a great tennis player, having never won a single tournament in her career. So, is she a superstar?
And as I mentioned before, are Tim Tebow, Lamar Odom, and Kris Humphries "superstars"? They have had some success on the court, but they are extremely well known and popular off the playing field.
I also don't think the casual person knows who Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers are because they haven't established their own "brand line" outside of the gridiron other than Rodgers doing a couple of State Farm commercials. Ditto with Calvin Johnson, who has a couple of Detroit-based commercials but I doubt the average, non-football fan knows who Brees, Rodgers, and Johnson are. I also doubt people know who Demarcus Ware is. Since they don't, according to your argument, they are not first tier superstars? But anyone associated with football or who follows the sport closely would consider them to be first-tier superstars in the game - maybe not in the media, but definitely within the sport itself.
Now, some superstars are well know, like Troy Polamalu, Peyton Manning, and Ray Lewis. But then again, a lot of people know who Tebow, Odom, and Humphries are. Media stardom does not equate to "super stardom".
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