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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Troy Brown wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | This thread has me laughing.
You're not mad at Ray Allen, you're just a Heat hater that can't believe they just got better 
He left a team that has been trying to trade him for several seasons now. I love me some Ray Ray and he's going to kill it in Miami. |
They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
I'm not saying they treated him like trash. But both sides understand it's a business, that's why Boston would have shipped him out the minute they got a deal they liked. Ray Allen is an aging veteran that is sacrificing dollar signs for another ring. Pretty noble if you ask me. I don't think he owes the Celtics anything.
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seminoles1
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 31653
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded.
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| seminoles1 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded. |
For OJ Mayo + more. That's a steal for the Celtics. That doesn't mean the Celtics were trying to trade him. That means the Grizzlies blew them away with a deal. Would you not have been blown away by that deal?
I'm not saying the Celtics wouldn't have traded Ray. I'm saying they weren't "trying" to trade him. People pretend like they were calling every team trying to dump him.
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | This thread has me laughing.
You're not mad at Ray Allen, you're just a Heat hater that can't believe they just got better
He left a team that has been trying to trade him for several seasons now. I love me some Ray Ray and he's going to kill it in Miami. |
They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
I'm not saying they treated him like trash. But both sides understand it's a business, that's why Boston would have shipped him out the minute they got a deal they liked. Ray Allen is an aging veteran that is sacrificing dollar signs for another ring. Pretty noble if you ask me. I don't think he owes the Celtics anything. |
A deal they liked which meant a a good young player + a first round pick... like Ainge wanted Psycho T and a first rounder.
Celtics fans don't owe Ray anything either. He was a great Celtic. Now he isn't. We aren't obligated to cheer a guy for going to our rivals because he feels they have a better chance of winning. Especially when our coach and GM feels that we're still good enough to win a title. Ray is saying the Celtics aren't good enough, even with him. Wooo, yeah, thanks Ray, you're the best!
F that noise.
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I understand that and I agree. Ray doesn't owe Boston anything and Boston doesn't owe Ray anything. I agree that it goes both ways. You guys won a 'ship together, that's great.
Obviously you aren't going to like Ray's middle finger to the Celtics (by saying the Heat are the better team) but I wouldn't lose respect for him and cast him as a traitor.
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't. I love him. I hope he stays healthy and plays the full 3 years.. (as long as the Heat are losing) But I won't cheer him until he retires.
I'll probably boo him until he retires, too.
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Dolphins82
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 11426
Location: The Parade
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Troy Brown wrote: | | seminoles1 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded. |
For OJ Mayo + more. That's a steal for the Celtics. That doesn't mean the Celtics were trying to trade him. That means the Grizzlies blew them away with a deal. Would you not have been blown away by that deal?
I'm not saying the Celtics wouldn't have traded Ray. I'm saying they weren't "trying" to trade him. People pretend like they were calling every team trying to dump him. |
So you're trying to win now, and OJ Mayo + (I'm guessing the '+' means scraps)...is a steal for Ray? 
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Dolphins82 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | | seminoles1 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded. |
For OJ Mayo + more. That's a steal for the Celtics. That doesn't mean the Celtics were trying to trade him. That means the Grizzlies blew them away with a deal. Would you not have been blown away by that deal?
I'm not saying the Celtics wouldn't have traded Ray. I'm saying they weren't "trying" to trade him. People pretend like they were calling every team trying to dump him. |
So you're trying to win now, and OJ Mayo + (I'm guessing the '+' means scraps)...is a steal for Ray? |
Absolutely. OJ Mayo is a better player than Ray Allen, about 3 decades younger, and would give the Celtics a lot more flexibility and versatility on offense. I know you think the Heat have the greatest 12 men on the face of the earth but I know for a fact you don't think Ray is better than Mayo. I KNOW THAT, DONT TRY TO DO ME LIKE THAT
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tonyto3690
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| VrabelCrable wrote: | | tonyto3690 wrote: | I think people are really overvaluing what Ray will do for the Heat.
Ray was completely and utterly dependent on perfect execution on offense and Rondo calling and executing perfect plays for him. Yes, LBJ and Wade will penetrate and draw double teams and Ray will get his shots, but I'd be surprised if Ray averaged 10 a game. He'll have a few games where scores 20, but 10 a game with horrific defense is about what he's looking at this season with the Heat. |
I didn't realize Rondo was running around all those screens for years and years.
| Quote: | lol.
Since you apparently haven't seen him the past few yeasr, I suggest you find a way to see him play sometime. From 07-09 he was underrated. From 09-10 he was mediocre. from 11-12 he was horrible. even before the bone spurs he was horrible. during the playoffs, teams repeatedly put iso situations on whoever Ray was guarding, he was so bad. He'd come in and it was immediately iso on ray iso on ray iso on ray.
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Since your so definitive about his defense year to year, go back and re watch game 7 of the NBA finals in 2010. Watch how well he played defense against Kobe.
He is an average defender when healthy. He wasn't healthy this season. You've tried to drive this point into the ground and it just isn't working. |
Did you really take from my post "Ray relies on Rondo to shoot well based on his screens he gives for Ray". Really? I mean anyone with one iota of common sense can figure out what Rondo does for Ray.
Did you not even read my post? He was an underrated defender up through 2010. Then he took a dramatic turn downward. The Celtics team defense hid it so it was passable two seasons, but this past season he was putrid. Yes, even before his bonespurs propped up he was horrible on defense. The bonespurs just made him go from bad to horrific. During the Heat series he surprisingly wasn't completely horrific, but the first two rounds he was just putrid. Unbelievably awful.
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| C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: |
Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever |
Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT. |
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teamorange
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 7050
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| tonyto3690 wrote: | | VrabelCrable wrote: | | tonyto3690 wrote: | I think people are really overvaluing what Ray will do for the Heat.
Ray was completely and utterly dependent on perfect execution on offense and Rondo calling and executing perfect plays for him. Yes, LBJ and Wade will penetrate and draw double teams and Ray will get his shots, but I'd be surprised if Ray averaged 10 a game. He'll have a few games where scores 20, but 10 a game with horrific defense is about what he's looking at this season with the Heat. |
I didn't realize Rondo was running around all those screens for years and years.
| Quote: | lol.
Since you apparently haven't seen him the past few yeasr, I suggest you find a way to see him play sometime. From 07-09 he was underrated. From 09-10 he was mediocre. from 11-12 he was horrible. even before the bone spurs he was horrible. during the playoffs, teams repeatedly put iso situations on whoever Ray was guarding, he was so bad. He'd come in and it was immediately iso on ray iso on ray iso on ray.
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Since your so definitive about his defense year to year, go back and re watch game 7 of the NBA finals in 2010. Watch how well he played defense against Kobe.
He is an average defender when healthy. He wasn't healthy this season. You've tried to drive this point into the ground and it just isn't working. |
Did you really take from my post "Ray relies on Rondo to shoot well based on his screens he gives for Ray". Really? I mean anyone with one iota of common sense can figure out what Rondo does for Ray.
Did you not even read my post? He was an underrated defender up through 2010. Then he took a dramatic turn downward. The Celtics team defense hid it so it was passable two seasons, but this past season he was putrid. Yes, even before his bonespurs propped up he was horrible on defense. The bonespurs just made him go from bad to horrific. During the Heat series he surprisingly wasn't completely horrific, but the first two rounds he was just putrid. Unbelievably awful. |
I would appreciate it if you responded to my post. Where I posted his stats as an average defend/would like for you to post some evidence instead of making baseless claims.
Plus I have said it a 1000 times, having a strong perimeter defender is pointless, it affects one guy on offense who can be swept up by a big man/help defenders. |
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DreDay80
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1662
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Troy Brown wrote: | | seminoles1 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded. |
For OJ Mayo + more. That's a steal for the Celtics. That doesn't mean the Celtics were trying to trade him. That means the Grizzlies blew them away with a deal. Would you not have been blown away by that deal?
I'm not saying the Celtics wouldn't have traded Ray. I'm saying they weren't "trying" to trade him. People pretend like they were calling every team trying to dump him. |
You really are overrating the hell out of OJ Mayo. There's a reason why he was demoted to the bench and don't give me the he wants to help the team. This dude has an amazing rookie season and has gotten considerably worse ever since. I'm a fan of his but really he's not that good....Of course he has potential maybe not as high as it used to be considering he was projected to be the next Kobe. |
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| DreDay80 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | | seminoles1 wrote: | | Troy Brown wrote: | They weren't trying to trade him. People need to stop saying that. There's a difference between listening to deals and taking peanuts for him. Larry Bird himself said Ainge was looking for far too much for Allen. People reaaaaaalllly need to stop acting like Ray wasn't wanted here and the Celtics treated him like a white trash girlfriend.
The Celtics were not "trying" to trade any of the big 4. If they were trying to, they'd have been traded. |
The Celtics had a deal in place to trade Ray Allen to Memphis. Doc Rivers called Ray Allen and told him he was being traded. |
For OJ Mayo + more. That's a steal for the Celtics. That doesn't mean the Celtics were trying to trade him. That means the Grizzlies blew them away with a deal. Would you not have been blown away by that deal?
I'm not saying the Celtics wouldn't have traded Ray. I'm saying they weren't "trying" to trade him. People pretend like they were calling every team trying to dump him. |
You really are overrating the hell out of OJ Mayo. There's a reason why he was demoted to the bench and don't give me the he wants to help the team. This dude has an amazing rookie season and has gotten considerably worse ever since. I'm a fan of his but really he's not that good....Of course he has potential maybe not as high as it used to be considering he was projected to be the next Kobe. |
No, I'm not overrating him at all. Compared to Ray Allen? He can score from anywhere and handle the ball and play better individual defense than Ray Allen from what I've seen. That'd have given the Celtics another ball-handler and a guy who can create his own shot and the Celtics wouldn't be so jump-shot dependent. I'm not saying Mayo is super great but I think someone would just have to be arguing the other side of this argument to try to tell me they prefer Allen to Mayo at this point. That's crazy and I love Ray's game.
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seminoles1
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 31653
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| DreDay80 wrote: | | You really are overrating the hell out of OJ Mayo. There's a reason why he was demoted to the bench and don't give me the he wants to help the team. |
Because it was better for the team if he came off the bench and led the 2nd unit.
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To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift-Steve Prefontaine
The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. |
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DreDay80
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1662
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| seminoles1 wrote: | | DreDay80 wrote: | | You really are overrating the hell out of OJ Mayo. There's a reason why he was demoted to the bench and don't give me the he wants to help the team. |
Because it was better for the team if he came off the bench and led the 2nd unit. |
After his rookie season he was well on his way to becoming Memphis' best player but he showed zero improvement and started regressing. You don't bench one of your best players to help the 2nd unit. Either way it isn't a highway robbery like Troy is making it out to be. OJ Mayo is an isolation scorer which wouldn't work with Rondo and Pierce. |
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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 19645
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| DreDay80 wrote: | | seminoles1 wrote: | | DreDay80 wrote: | | You really are overrating the hell out of OJ Mayo. There's a reason why he was demoted to the bench and don't give me the he wants to help the team. |
Because it was better for the team if he came off the bench and led the 2nd unit. |
After his rookie season he was well on his way to becoming Memphis' best player but he showed zero improvement and started regressing. You don't bench one of your best players to help the 2nd unit. Either way it isn't a highway robbery like Troy is making it out to be. OJ Mayo is an isolation scorer which wouldn't work with Rondo and Pierce. |
They said the big 3 would have to learn to play together, too. Doc's a hell of a coach. It is highway robbery when you trade a 36 year old for a 20 something and a first rounder, especially with the way Ray was playing. And I never claimed OJ Mayo to be some mega superstar. He is the kind of scorer the Celtics need off the bench, do you watch Celtics games?
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