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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | ----Matthews does not have much lateral quickness, that's what I was trying to say. Not necesarily straight line speed, which is what 40 times are. Matthews is currently doing a lot of lateral agility workouts, because he knows its something he has to improve. I just don't think Matthews has any real elusive ability. The all purpose yards are kind of pointless to mention because we all know Rivers likes to check down a lot to the RB right in front of him. Look at this TD run by Matthews, not one cut was even made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2GJc8Pj3w I know I know, it's only ONE run, but honestly that's how most of Matthew's runs are. He doesn't really change direction well IMO. But he could get better at it. |
I don't think all running back have to be shifty w/ lateral quickness to be good, even great. If a runner can get north to south and be effective moving the chains, that's all you need.
The APY's are hardly pointless. Yes Rivers checks down, but Matthews still has to catch that ball and turn it up field. That's a skill set he has. He can catch and make plays.
Think you are selling Matthews short. He's not Rice, MJD, AP sure. But a guy who can churn out 1500 APY in his second season has a lot of room to grow.
| RaisinBran wrote: | | Yea the Chargers have some new WR's, but Royal hasn't done anything since making Deangelo Hall look like an idiot 3 years ago. Meachem might stretch the field, but there's nothing guaranteed with him... he was the 4th WR on the Saints depth chart so he didn't have much attention given to him. We will see how he produces. Rivers will probably continue to throw jump balls to Vincent Brown and Floyd, I think we will be able to stop it better this year since we won't play strictly man to man the entire game. Because of this the jump balls Rivers liked to throw against us won't be as successful because our CB's won't have their backs to the ball as often. Plus, Gates and Floyd get injured every year it seems, so I'm assuming they will miss some games this upcoming season. Both Floyd and Gates have missed 9 games the past 2 seasons. |
I think the point here is Rivers can get the ball to any WR. IMO, Royal is going to shine. He did w/ Shanahan and Cutler and didn't have a place in Denver after that. He's the kind of guy Rivers and Turner will use a lot.
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Last edited by big_palooka on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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true2form
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 680
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
I don't see the difference to be honest. Yes Mathews has had better numbers, but Moreno had a lot less to work with in Denver. I guess we'll see if he can handle the load too. He only had 5 games last year with more than 20 carries and 8 games were less than 15. His longest run was only 39 yards as well and that was a career long. This makes me believe that either his speed is not as great as people make it out to be or he really is that bad at making cuts.
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true2form
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 680
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: | | ----Matthews does not have much lateral quickness, that's what I was trying to say. Not necesarily straight line speed, which is what 40 times are. Matthews is currently doing a lot of lateral agility workouts, because he knows its something he has to improve. I just don't think Matthews has any real elusive ability. The all purpose yards are kind of pointless to mention because we all know Rivers likes to check down a lot to the RB right in front of him. Look at this TD run by Matthews, not one cut was even made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2GJc8Pj3w I know I know, it's only ONE run, but honestly that's how most of Matthew's runs are. He doesn't really change direction well IMO. But he could get better at it. |
I don't think all running back have to be shifty w/ lateral quickness to be good, even great. If a runner can get north to south and be effective moving the chains, that's all you need.
The APY's are hardly pointless. Yes Rivers checks down, but Matthews still has to catch that ball and turn it up field. That's a skill set he has. He can catch and make plays.
Think you are selling Matthews short. He's not Rice, MJD, AP sure. But a guy who can churn out 1500 APY in his second season has a lot of room to grow.
10031698Yea the Chargers have some new WR's, but Royal hasn't done anything since making Deangelo Hall look like an idiot 3 years ago. Meachem might stretch the field, but there's nothing guaranteed with him... he was the 4th WR on the Saints depth chart so he didn't have much attention given to him. We will see how he produces. Rivers will probably continue to throw jump balls to Vincent Brown and Floyd, I think we will be able to stop it better this year since we won't play strictly man to man the entire game. Because of this the jump balls Rivers liked to throw against us won't be as successful because our CB's won't have their backs to the ball as often. Plus, Gates and Floyd get injured every year it seems, so I'm assuming they will miss some games this upcoming season. Both Floyd and Gates have missed 9 games the past 2 seasons. |
I think the point here is Rivers can get the ball to any WR. IMO, Royal is going to shine. He did w/ Shanahan and Cutler and didn't have a place in Denver after that. He's the kind of guy Rivers and Turner will use a lot.[/quote]
I have a hard time agreeing with this. Royal fell off the map with Orton as the QB and it's not like he wasn't slinging it around. Orton threw for almost 8,000 yards in two years(would have been well over if he had not been benched for Tebow) and Royal didn't even get 1,000 of them. He could end up being like Welker if the Chargers use him that way, but he will still be a poor man's Welker at best.
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| true2form wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
I don't see the difference to be honest. Yes Mathews has had better numbers, but Moreno had a lot less to work with in Denver. I guess we'll see if he can handle the load too. He only had 5 games last year with more than 20 carries and 8 games were less than 15. His longest run was only 39 yards as well and that was a career long. This makes me believe that either his speed is not as great as people make it out to be or he really is that bad at making cuts. |
IDK much about Mathews, but he has only had 300-something career carries. It is totally possible that he just hasnt busted a long run when he has more than 39 yards from the endzone- again, IDK, just trying to play devil's advocate. He did have 9 carries of 20+ yards last year, tied for 5th in the NFL and most of the guys that had more had closer to 300 carries, compared to his 222. Another thing about Mathews, which is something I like to look at, is that he was consistant last year in terms of YPC. You cant always just look at yards or TDs, but if you look at yards per carry, he had 4.4 or better in 10 of his 14 games and 8 of those games were above 5 YPC. In comparrison, CJ2K only had 6 games with a YPC above 4, Lynch had 7, Rice had 9. A lot of good backs will have a good number of games where they struggle to get yardage. Maybe they get 80 yards, but it takes them 25 carries to do so. Strictly looking at numbers, Mathews consistantly gets good yardage on his runs.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: |
who's to say we can't go 9-7 this year?
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At this point we can still go 16-0, so yeah, no one can. When comparing each teams, the Raiders are the worst. |
I disagree, but I'd like to hear why do you think we are the worst team?
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The Chargers and Broncos have elite QBs. The Chiefs have one of the deepest roster in the league. The Raiders roster isn't bad either but our best offensive player has durability issues, we have no idea how effective our edge rush will be and our 2 starting CBs are coming back from injury and a season spent on the bench. If McFadden stays healthy, if the D scheme makes up for a certain lack of edge rushing threats and Bartell and Spencer are still starting CBs worthy, this team could surprise. But i can't really expect all of that to happen, some might and some won't. |
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 19234
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| true2form wrote: | | big_palooka wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: | | ----Matthews does not have much lateral quickness, that's what I was trying to say. Not necesarily straight line speed, which is what 40 times are. Matthews is currently doing a lot of lateral agility workouts, because he knows its something he has to improve. I just don't think Matthews has any real elusive ability. The all purpose yards are kind of pointless to mention because we all know Rivers likes to check down a lot to the RB right in front of him. Look at this TD run by Matthews, not one cut was even made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2GJc8Pj3w I know I know, it's only ONE run, but honestly that's how most of Matthew's runs are. He doesn't really change direction well IMO. But he could get better at it. |
I don't think all running back have to be shifty w/ lateral quickness to be good, even great. If a runner can get north to south and be effective moving the chains, that's all you need.
The APY's are hardly pointless. Yes Rivers checks down, but Matthews still has to catch that ball and turn it up field. That's a skill set he has. He can catch and make plays.
Think you are selling Matthews short. He's not Rice, MJD, AP sure. But a guy who can churn out 1500 APY in his second season has a lot of room to grow.
10031698Yea the Chargers have some new WR's, but Royal hasn't done anything since making Deangelo Hall look like an idiot 3 years ago. Meachem might stretch the field, but there's nothing guaranteed with him... he was the 4th WR on the Saints depth chart so he didn't have much attention given to him. We will see how he produces. Rivers will probably continue to throw jump balls to Vincent Brown and Floyd, I think we will be able to stop it better this year since we won't play strictly man to man the entire game. Because of this the jump balls Rivers liked to throw against us won't be as successful because our CB's won't have their backs to the ball as often. Plus, Gates and Floyd get injured every year it seems, so I'm assuming they will miss some games this upcoming season. Both Floyd and Gates have missed 9 games the past 2 seasons. |
I think the point here is Rivers can get the ball to any WR. IMO, Royal is going to shine. He did w/ Shanahan and Cutler and didn't have a place in Denver after that. He's the kind of guy Rivers and Turner will use a lot. |
I have a hard time agreeing with this. Royal fell off the map with Orton as the QB and it's not like he wasn't slinging it around. Orton threw for almost 8,000 yards in two years(would have been well over if he had not been benched for Tebow) and Royal didn't even get 1,000 of them. He could end up being like Welker if the Chargers use him that way, but he will still be a poor man's Welker at best.[/quote]
Important to note that McDaniels never really involved Royal in the offense.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
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Baggabonez
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I had matthews in ff once. Ive never been more frustrated with by a RB with so much potential. He's similar to Addai, in terms of unrealized potential and frustration. Matthews is a paper tiger, imo. No heart, minor injury/mid-game scratch magnet, extremely volatile production. I'd rather not have they headache. I don't do FF anymore but Matthews would be on my no draft list. He may pan out but he drove my crazy.
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | I had matthews in ff once. Ive never been more frustrated with by a RB with so much potential. He's similar to Addai, in terms of unrealized potential and frustration. Matthews is a paper tiger, imo. No heart, minor injury/mid-game scratch magnet, extremely volatile production. I'd rather not have they headache. I don't do FF anymore but Matthews would be on my no draft list. He may pan out but he drove my crazy. |
When I had him, Addai was a good fantasy back half the time. The other half he was a waste of a roster spot
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ZoomWaffle
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | I had matthews in ff once. Ive never been more frustrated with by a RB with so much potential. He's similar to Addai, in terms of unrealized potential and frustration. Matthews is a paper tiger, imo. No heart, minor injury/mid-game scratch magnet, extremely volatile production. I'd rather not have they headache. I don't do FF anymore but Matthews would be on my no draft list. He may pan out but he drove my crazy. |
Was that his rookie year? Because last year he was pretty good fantasy-wise. He only had 2 games with under 10 points, 4 with 10-14 points and 5 games with 20 or more. Certainly room for improvement, but plenty of RBs have a similar season. That was with Tolbert, too. A lot of his low-point games he had 12 carries or less- that should change this year. The injury concern is still a big red flag, though.
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| La_Vader wrote: | | I wouldn't trade Pryor for any prospect in this years draft. Quote me on that |
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game3525
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
I am sorry, but that is just nonsense.
Rivers can make every throw in the book. If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
imo ray rice is the best rb in the game right now.
dmac has some serious catching up to do
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
imo ray rice is the best rb in the game right now.
dmac has some serious catching up to do |
No he doesn't. The only thing Rice is better then McFadden at is staying healthy. I love Rice, but he's not a game breaker, which when compared with another compete RB like DMC, makes the difference. I wouldn't put Rice in my top 5 TBH.
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| candyman93 wrote: | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders  |
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
I am sorry, but that is just nonsense.
Rivers can make every throw in the book. If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers doesn't have the elite zip that Cutler has on his passes. Thats pretty clear to see. That doesn't hold Rivers back from being a great QB, but it does make a difference on the passes and WRs he specializes throwing to. It's not a coincidence that the Chargers have rostered big WRs throughout Rivers career.
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| candyman93 wrote: | | Reading Darkness posts you'd think the warriors were playoff contenders |
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