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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: Hypothetical: Mike Wallace |
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I know everyone knows the Mike Wallce situation. He is a restricted free agent and he is slated to make 2.7 million this season. He wanted a new contact and word is that the deal Antonio Brown signed was offered to Mike Wallace and Wallace turned it down. 5 years, 42 million.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/steelers-statement-mike-wallace-contract-offer-antonio-brown-060305426--nfl.html
| Quote: | A while back, according to those in the know in Pittsburgh, the Pittsburgh Steelers gave receiver Mike Wallace a contract offer somewhere in the area of $42 million over five years. If accepted, the deal would have resolved the fact that Wallace was given a first-round restricted free-agent tender, which guarantees him just $2.72 million in the 2012 season. Wallace was evidently unimpressed, which is why he's holding out of the Steelers' training camp. The team's response to the actions of their primary receiver over the last couple of years was essentially this: Go on and hold out -- we'll give Emmanuel Sanders your role as the "X" receiver in practice, and we'll give Antonio Brown, who almost matched your numbers in 2011, your contract.
And that's exactly what they did. On Friday, just two days after making their first public statements about Wallace's holdout during camp, the Steelers signed Brown to that very same five-year, $42.5 million extension. Brown will make the $540,000 he was set to make in 2012 as part of his rookie deal, but he also has $8 million guaranteed in the new deal. He'll make $4.5 million in 2013 (base salary and roster bonus), and $6 million in base salary in 2013 and 2014. |
So what I'm thinking is one of two hings here.
1. Wallace may be on the trade block and he has a 1st round tender. If he is, what would you give up for him? We can only offer a 2nd because our 1st are gone. Would you do that?
2. If you aren't comfortable with that trade are you going to be willing to wait for him? He's unrestricted next year. Steelers usually don't franchise and even if they did, would you wait to sign him as a free agent in 2014?
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 mike23md
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 4612
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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No.
If either one of those options happen, it will be obvious that Dan Snyder has not learned his lesson about staying out of the way. |
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21 ALL THE WAY
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Location: WASHINGTON DC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I would just wait personally, and I think that is the direction the team will take if they are interested in Wallace. IMO we just aren't ready to go in a draft without a 1st and 2nd round pick.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | I would just wait personally, and I think that is the direction the team will take if they are interested in Wallace. IMO we just aren't ready to go in a draft without a 1st and 2nd round pick. |
True, I agree with you. It is enticing though...
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mike23md
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Hypothetical: Mike Wallace |
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| turtle28 wrote: | So what I'm thinking is one of two hings here.
1. Wallace may be on the trade block and he has a 1st round tender. If he is, what would you give up for him? We can only offer a 2nd because our 1st are gone. Would you do that? |
Guy is talented, but is starting to look like a head case. So we should give up our highest available pick to get him? Umm ... no.
| Quote: | | 2. If you aren't comfortable with that trade are you going to be willing to wait for him? He's unrestricted next year. Steelers usually don't franchise and even if they did, would you wait to sign him as a free agent in 2014? |
Do we really want to go into the second year of our salary cap penalty and enter a bidding war for Wallace? No.
2014, on the other hand, maybe. |
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footy_29
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: The Frozen Tundra that is Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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^^ The Baby Face knows his stuff. 
I say, no way Jose! Maybe we found one in Aldrick Robinson, or maybe he and Armstrong are simply inferior versions. Ultimately, I think you have to put the onus on the scouting staff to identify players that offer similar skills and the team management to draft those players.
Picks and Money?
Automatic NO (unless the player is equivalent to Champ Bailey)
Money?
What's your roster?
Mike Wallace would be great for Philly, but they have their big money contracts already. Even though there are many teams that would love to add him, will they want to pay the asking fee? Look at what that did to the Leafs with Kessel.
He could be highly successful in Tenessee and Carolina - those are my two. Both teams seem like ideal fits for on-field success as a wide receiver because of their young quarterbacks.
The Redskins signed Pierre Garcon, that is their big-money speed threat; they've decided.
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killacam
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: |
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from what i read, on bleacher report i believe, we could offer our 4th rd pick for him and possibly cooley or moss as well. this possibly the case because any team could've offered him a contract this summer with a 1st being the price and NOBODY was willing to do that. thoughts? i would give cooley and a 4th up in a HEARTBEAT!!!
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| killacam wrote: | | from what i read, on bleacher report i believe, we could offer our 4th rd pick for him and possibly cooley or moss as well. this possibly the case because any team could've offered him a contract this summer with a 1st being the price and NOBODY was willing to do that. thoughts? i would give cooley and a 4th up in a HEARTBEAT!!! |
They don't need Cooley, they have Heath Miller and those two are very similar players.
-Moss and a 3rd or 4th round pick might work and I'd do that. The money would be tight though.
- moss is making 2.65 this year, so is Wallace, so that's a wash
- we have 7 million in cap room. Wallace scoffed at not getting a raise now and differing his big $ off into the future and only getting 8 million in guarantees. Vincent Jackson got much, much more people.
-if we could make the trade and double his salary now, Wallace might go for that instead of not getting a raise this year at all
Wallace and Garçon would be uncoverable for defenses
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mike23md
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mike23md
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: |
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But does Pittsburgh actually want Moss? I mean really? Moss is 33 and is no longer the 1 WR on our roster. He has been really moved to the slot with the acquisitions of Garcon and Morgan. Not to mention there are a lot of high hopes for Hankerson, so where does that really leave Wallace? A speedy deep threat that is not a true #1 that would command #1 money?
Just have to stay away from this.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| mike23md wrote: | But does Pittsburgh actually want Moss? I mean really? Moss is 33 and is no longer the 1 WR on our roster. He has been really moved to the slot with the acquisitions of Garcon and Morgan. Not to mention there are a lot of high hopes for Hankerson, so where does that really leave Wallace? A speedy deep threat that is not a true #1 that would command #1 money?
Just have to stay away from this. |
They might not want Moss, who knows? I certainly don't, but Moss would give them more production than what Ward had given them the last few years. Moss being teamed up with Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders would be hard to stop for defenses.
True we do have high hopes for Hank, but right now that's just hopes. I do understand what you mean though.
The thing with Wallace is he's uncoverable deep, seriously DBs can not run with him. He runs past the safety over the top. He has world class speed. He's worth More than a Garçon for example. Wallace has a special talent to be able to run full speed and cut without having to change directions or slow down.
It probably won't even be entertained by us but if I had the chance I would see what the steelers and his representation was looking for.
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mike23md
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mike23md
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | mike23md wrote: | But does Pittsburgh actually want Moss? I mean really? Moss is 33 and is no longer the 1 WR on our roster. He has been really moved to the slot with the acquisitions of Garcon and Morgan. Not to mention there are a lot of high hopes for Hankerson, so where does that really leave Wallace? A speedy deep threat that is not a true #1 that would command #1 money?
Just have to stay away from this. |
They might not want Moss, who knows? I certainly don't, but Moss would give them more production than what Ward had given them the last few years. Moss being teamed up with Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders would be hard to stop for defenses.
True we do have high hopes for Hank, but right now that's just hopes. I do understand what you mean though.
The thing with Wallace is he's uncoverable deep, seriously DBs can not run with him. He runs past the safety over the top. He has world class speed. He's worth More than a Garçon for example. Wallace has a special talent to be able to run full speed and cut without having to change directions or slow down.
It probably won't even be entertained by us but if I had the chance I would see what the steelers and his representation was looking for. |
You're missing the point. Wallace wants #1 money and here he wouldnt be a #1. Garcon is the #1 on account of what he's getting paid and Wallace might fall to #2 or even #3 based on the offense. We dont have the money to give what he wants nor do we have the compensation in terms of picks.
We have young talent at the WR position and it seems that none of them are hot heads or ego maniacs. Which I like. Adding Wallace to this mix is only going to hurt the overall temperament of the corps and the team in general.
His ego and commandment of #1 money, where he would not be a true #1 is something we cannot afford, and I am not just talking about money.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mike23md wrote: | You're missing the point. Wallace wants #1 money and here he wouldnt be a #1. Garcon is the #1 on account of what he's getting paid and Wallace might fall to #2 or even #3 based on the offense. We dont have the money to give what he wants nor do we have the compensation in terms of picks.
We have young talent at the WR position and it seems that none of them are hot heads or ego maniacs. Which I like. Adding Wallace to this mix is only going to hurt the overall temperament of the corps and the team in general.
His ego and commandment of #1 money, where he would not be a true #1 is something we cannot afford, and I am not just talking about money. |
it all depends on the demands of his contract. Which we don't know but yes, the one offered to Brown wasn't enough.
On the other side though, Garçon did get more guaranteed money then was offered to Wallace and Antonio Brown accepted.
I'm no number cruncher for sure, but I think we have the money to double his 2.7 million contract if we cut or trade Moss in the deal.
Garcon's contract pays him good money but not really #1 elite money if you break it down:
2012: 4.8 million
2013: 8.3 Million
2014: 9.8 million
2015: 9.8 million
2016: 10.3 million
I expect the salary cap to go up next year and especially in 2014 when the new tv deal kicks in. I think it's doable that we could pay Wallace a little more than we pay Garçon, but then again I could be wrong.
I'm not sure where this notion comes that he's a hot head or ego maniac. No one said that of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald when they wanted a new deal. Mike Wallace is just doing what is in his right to do, ask for a new contract because he's outplayed his current one and is worth more than a restricted tag also. He's not an elite wr, but based on what he's done his career he would be our top performer if we signed him and Garçon would be two. Wallace has had no off the field issues in 3 years, no lockeroom issues and no problems with coaches or anything. I don't think he is an ego maniac because he is asking for a raise and to be paid probably in the range of the top wr in this FA class Vincent Jackson.
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mike23md
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Dro
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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if wallace came here he'd be getting number 1 money and would be our number 1... easily.
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big44dog
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Steelers have a pretty good track record of choosing which WRs to pay. Paid Hines Ward. Didn't pay Santonio who's driving the jets nuts. Didn't pay Plax, who I'll admit was dominant for the 07 stretch and the start of 08 but you can't say the Steelers didn't see the smoking gun  . Didn't pay Antwan Randle El who clearly wasn't worth his deal. New rule, if Pittsburgh lets them go, stay away.
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turtle28
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