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Transfer and Rumor Thread #7- Ba to Chelsea
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Dr. Philly


Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Transfer and Rumor Thread #7- Ba to Chelsea Reply with quote

Go.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill just move this over here.

lomaxgr wrote:
teamorange wrote:
My biggest question is where Kagawa is going to fit into the side. He isn't a center mid and Rooney is going to be playing behind the striker if RVP comes in (tbh, I think they will alternate who comes out to get the ball instead of it being Rooney's sole responsibility). Does he rotate in? Does he play out on the wing? He needs the ball at his feet going toward the defense, not moving the ball around. Plus, he lacks defensive discipline that is need of a CM.

I don't think RVP would be a poor signing but you need signings else where in more pressing positions


I know this sounds pretty ridiculous, but I wouldn't be surprised if Kagawa becomes our new Park. I expect him to play pretty much every single away game in the league whilst we play a 4-5-1. Now, if we were to sign RVP, I would then expect both Rooney and Kagawa to take shifts on the wing, giving the formation a bit of fluidity (similar to how City operative in their 4-5-1 with Silva as the 'winger').

I suppose this could work at home to, with maybe Kagawa and Rooney swapping in a 4-4-2? It's a good question though.


It just seems like you are trying to work all of them into it. I think United would be better suited if they looked at other players in other positions. You are essentially strengthening one of your strengths. It would be better suited to look at fullbacks and central midfielders. That's why I would argue RVP "doesn't fit." He obviously will fit into any squad but does he fit that squad's needs? I would argue the he doesn't for Manchester United.
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Shaq


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one that thinks Kagawa will flop in the PL?
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Oregon Ducks


Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaq wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks Kagawa will flop in the PL?

I think it's too early to tell, but he doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the United squad.

Like I've said, United have not addressed any of their needs and even if they sign RvP, it would remain the same.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RVP fits any team in the world. Barcelona, Man City, United, it doesnt matter when it comes to players of that quality.

Fergie has stated his philosophy that the era of the ball-winner is over, Carrick is exactly the player he wants for the role of back four protector with passing range (which is why he has stuck by him all these years even when the fans were calling for his head). A lot is going to ride on the progression of Tom Cleverley, I think Fergie is comfortable enough with the cover provided by Scholes to give Tom the opportunity this year to show he is the future as the fulcrum of our midfield. 4-5-1 in the big games I'd presume would include Carrick/Cleverley behind a front four of Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa/RVP, with room for guys like Welbeck, Nani, Young, Chicharito, etc. to rotate/sub in. A hopefully healthy Fletcher and Anderson will be cover for the midfield, which I'm OK with (if they're not fit I hope we add in that area). Hopefully we see a lot less Giggs apart from home games against the bottom half of the table.

The only other "need" United have yet to address is cover at left back, which is more of a need than the midfield in my opinion (even though Jonny Evans could do a job there). There's been a lot of talk about Baines, who would relegate Evra to a rotation player (needed to happen 2 years ago), and solidify our back line. I'm confident we add someone in that area, apparently there is 30m to spend so between a left back and van Persie that would add up quite nicely to that number I'd imagine.
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Oregon Ducks


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:

Fergie has stated his philosophy that the era of the ball-winner is over, Carrick is exactly the player he wants for the role of back four protector with passing range (which is why he has stuck by him all these years even when the fans were calling for his head). A lot is going to ride on the progression of Tom Cleverley, I think Fergie is comfortable enough with the cover provided by Scholes to give Tom the opportunity this year to show he is the future as the fulcrum of our midfield. 4-5-1 in the big games I'd presume would include Carrick/Cleverley behind a front four of Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa/RVP, with room for guys like Welbeck, Nani, Young, Chicharito, etc. to rotate/sub in. A hopefully healthy Fletcher and Anderson will be cover for the midfield, which I'm OK with (if they're not fit I hope we add in that area). Hopefully we see a lot less Giggs apart from home games against the bottom half of the table.

You're ok with having with having the same midfield as last year? You're ok with battling Arsenal and Tottenham for 3rd place?
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ukjets21


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:

Fergie has stated his philosophy that the era of the ball-winner is over, Carrick is exactly the player he wants for the role of back four protector with passing range (which is why he has stuck by him all these years even when the fans were calling for his head). A lot is going to ride on the progression of Tom Cleverley, I think Fergie is comfortable enough with the cover provided by Scholes to give Tom the opportunity this year to show he is the future as the fulcrum of our midfield. 4-5-1 in the big games I'd presume would include Carrick/Cleverley behind a front four of Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa/RVP, with room for guys like Welbeck, Nani, Young, Chicharito, etc. to rotate/sub in. A hopefully healthy Fletcher and Anderson will be cover for the midfield, which I'm OK with (if they're not fit I hope we add in that area). Hopefully we see a lot less Giggs apart from home games against the bottom half of the table.

You're ok with having with having the same midfield as last year? You're ok with battling Arsenal and Tottenham for 3rd place?


Don't you mean 2nd place. Chelsea aren't locks for 2nd at all.
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Oregon Ducks


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukjets21 wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:

Fergie has stated his philosophy that the era of the ball-winner is over, Carrick is exactly the player he wants for the role of back four protector with passing range (which is why he has stuck by him all these years even when the fans were calling for his head). A lot is going to ride on the progression of Tom Cleverley, I think Fergie is comfortable enough with the cover provided by Scholes to give Tom the opportunity this year to show he is the future as the fulcrum of our midfield. 4-5-1 in the big games I'd presume would include Carrick/Cleverley behind a front four of Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa/RVP, with room for guys like Welbeck, Nani, Young, Chicharito, etc. to rotate/sub in. A hopefully healthy Fletcher and Anderson will be cover for the midfield, which I'm OK with (if they're not fit I hope we add in that area). Hopefully we see a lot less Giggs apart from home games against the bottom half of the table.

You're ok with having with having the same midfield as last year? You're ok with battling Arsenal and Tottenham for 3rd place?


Don't you mean 2nd place. Chelsea aren't locks for 2nd at all.

Maybe not locks, but they're better than Man U ATM.
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Marshall: 249 rush yds(8.3), 388 rec yds(11.4), 4 TDs
Tyner: 279 rush yds(4.2), 65 rec yds(7.2), 2 TDs
Freeman: 636 rush yds(5.6), 37 rec yds(7.4), 11 TDs
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ukjets21


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
Maybe not locks, but they're better than Man U ATM.


Well if they're not locks then they'll be battling United for 2nd place. I'd be surprised if Chelsea got 3rd to be honest, the Champions League result is great as is the FA Cup win but lets not ignore the 6th place finish in the league. I'm not buying that a good cup run will send them into 2nd.

United>Chelsea=Arsenal>Spurs for me.
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Oregon Ducks


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukjets21 wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
Maybe not locks, but they're better than Man U ATM.


Well if they're not locks then they'll be battling United for 2nd place. I'd be surprised if Chelsea got 3rd to be honest, the Champions League result is great as is the FA Cup win but lets not ignore the 6th place finish in the league. I'm not buying that a good cup run will send them into 2nd.

United>Chelsea=Arsenal>Spurs for me.

Their run at the end of the year didn't impress me as much as their signings did. They have addressed some needs, whereas Man U hasn't.
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Marshall: 249 rush yds(8.3), 388 rec yds(11.4), 4 TDs
Tyner: 279 rush yds(4.2), 65 rec yds(7.2), 2 TDs
Freeman: 636 rush yds(5.6), 37 rec yds(7.4), 11 TDs
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ukjets21


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
ukjets21 wrote:
Oregon Ducks wrote:
Maybe not locks, but they're better than Man U ATM.


Well if they're not locks then they'll be battling United for 2nd place. I'd be surprised if Chelsea got 3rd to be honest, the Champions League result is great as is the FA Cup win but lets not ignore the 6th place finish in the league. I'm not buying that a good cup run will send them into 2nd.

United>Chelsea=Arsenal>Spurs for me.

Their run at the end of the year didn't impress me as much as their signings did. They have addressed some needs, whereas Man U hasn't.


Kagawa is much better than Hazard to be honest, United will also get Vidic back and besides LB they have a good defence. De Gea also looked much better at the end of the season than he did at the start, I don't see a problem with him this season. Rooney, Valencia and Kagawa make a dangerous attack and Nani might have a blinder for 2 games. The only 'weakness' is at CM and Cleverly and Scholes will both play big roles. United will be strong, like they always are.
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Oregon Ducks


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on man, RB is a weak spot too. Rafael cannot be trusted. CM is a huge need, though. I don't think they need 1, I think they need 2. Carrick is ok, Cleverley has never proven anything, Scholes is old, Anderson is Anderson, etc. Kagawa was a good signing, but I don't know where they're going to fit him.
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Marshall: 249 rush yds(8.3), 388 rec yds(11.4), 4 TDs
Tyner: 279 rush yds(4.2), 65 rec yds(7.2), 2 TDs
Freeman: 636 rush yds(5.6), 37 rec yds(7.4), 11 TDs
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:

Fergie has stated his philosophy that the era of the ball-winner is over, Carrick is exactly the player he wants for the role of back four protector with passing range (which is why he has stuck by him all these years even when the fans were calling for his head). A lot is going to ride on the progression of Tom Cleverley, I think Fergie is comfortable enough with the cover provided by Scholes to give Tom the opportunity this year to show he is the future as the fulcrum of our midfield. 4-5-1 in the big games I'd presume would include Carrick/Cleverley behind a front four of Valencia/Rooney/Kagawa/RVP, with room for guys like Welbeck, Nani, Young, Chicharito, etc. to rotate/sub in. A hopefully healthy Fletcher and Anderson will be cover for the midfield, which I'm OK with (if they're not fit I hope we add in that area). Hopefully we see a lot less Giggs apart from home games against the bottom half of the table.

You're ok with having with having the same midfield as last year? You're ok with battling Arsenal and Tottenham for 3rd place?


Did you watch any of last season? Our top four healthy midfielders were Carrick, Giggs, half a season of Scholes, and Park. Now you add Tom Cleverley, who didn't start a league game after October because of injuries, Darren Fletcher, and Anderson. How is that the same midfield as last year? Of course its all health-permitting, but there's no reason to believe Cleverley has any lasting injury problems, Fletcher has been a workhorse outside of his viral issue, only Anderson is the recurring injury worry and he's a bit part player anyways.

My entire last post detailed why we don't really need a marquee CM signing (if Cleverley is injured or turns into Aaron Ramsey this year, then that certainly changes). But if you watched any of the games at the start of last season, you'll see why a lot of United fans (and evidently Sir Alex) are really really high on Cleverley and his ability to hold down that spot next to Carrick. Right back is not a need, between Rafael and Phil Jones I have no worries (plus you have Smalling as cover for them). Bottom line is, our players returning from injury completely revamp our midfield, and are plenty to ensure another top 2 finish and another year where we expect to be PL champions at the end of the year, especially if we add Van Persie and a left back like Baines.

We all know the reason you're pissy about United possibly signing RVP is because it means Hernandez gets bumped down the pecking order. Truth is, he's best suited to the super sub role. In top flight European competition, his link up play isn't good enough to merit a starting role in a 4-5-1. Still love the guys finishing and movement, but let's be honest, United aren't looking at him and saying "We don't need Van Persie, we've got Javier Hernandez!!". Just not the case
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ukjets21


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon Ducks wrote:
Come on man, RB is a weak spot too. Rafael cannot be trusted. CM is a huge need, though. I don't think they need 1, I think they need 2. Carrick is ok, Cleverley has never proven anything, Scholes is old, Anderson is Anderson, etc. Kagawa was a good signing, but I don't know where they're going to fit him.


Rafael could be better but he isn't going to stop them coming 2nd, he may also get better whereas Evra is on an inevitable decline now and really needs replaced immediately.

CM is fine, they need 1.

Carrick is more than ok
Cleverley is unproven but looked good before injury
Scholes is still a brilliant player
Anderson needs replaced in the pecking order.

One midfielder would mean they had 3 midfielders very capable of playing plus Cleverley who would probably make that 4.


Kagawa is good enough for them to make room for him, he can play on the left, right or in the middle as an attacking player depending on where Rooney is being played on any said game, by the end of the season he'll be a mainstay in the lineup and will be among the best players in the league.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^I totally agree, in that sense Kagawa is in a similar class to RVP, you accommodate your shape/formation for him. He's going to be really, really good.
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