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Broadway Joe


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 7876
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
It'd be easier to say "even a blind squirel finds a nut every once in awhile" - but it's possible we could be.

Broadway Joe wrote:
let's give credit when it's deserved like this draft, and not defending players who don't deserve to be.


Good posts guys. Well put.


I call bull crap on BJ's quote.

I see a lot of people attacking players who don't deserve to be attacked.

But in a league where fans send death threats to players who make mistakes in a game, is it all that surprising?


If anything we need to be more critical of this team. I mean here in FF. There's plenty of people who trash people who doesn't deserve to be. But here in FF the majority is the other way around. My post was directed to the fans in here.


Have you ever met a football fan outside FF and tried to talk to them? If you're exposed to the discussion here you're much more knowledgeable than most casual fans.

If you can name all 5 starting offensive linemen on your team, then you are more knowledgeable than the casual fan.

The guys here know who we drafted three years ago by heart.

There's a strong correlation between knowledge of the game and being more fair to players. Casual fans see win and losses. The team wins, they're the greatest team ever. The team loses? They suck.

That's what we don't want to be here.


Actually no I haven't talked to any fans outside this forum. Before I came to FF I was the only Eagles fans I knew in the God forsaken Cowboys loving city.

But I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I feel we are homers in this forum. I mean I like your keeping it cool philosophy and actually admire it. I wish I could be like that after so much heartbreak.

But being optimistic doesn't mean we have to tolerate crap or that things are good when they aren't. We wait too much to call someone out when they aren't performing (unless that someone is Vick), we seem to believe we have a better coach than we really do, we try to justify their shortcomings way too much. The only way people seem to know when someone is bad or doesn't deserve to be on this team is when they are gone, which is usually way overdue. Like with McDermott.

As I said in my other post we owe this team nothing, we are their consumers and as such we should demand excellence, specially us Eagles fans who have fallen short too many times and disappointed way more. We have 0 trophies and teams have been passing us by left and right, we should demand just the best.


People here sympathize with players not because we're homers.

It's because we're educated and we can identify context and reference similar developments from various years and apply it to our own situation and circumstances.

I was laughing inside while we lost to Arizona. Wasn't Kolb basically shunned by Eagles fans? How he could never win anything. He's terrible. Can't make passes. Things could change fast, and I think they will, but the guy is 3-0 right now in Arizona. He beat his former team after beating Brady and Belichick in their own house.

Not everyone is a sure-fire hall of famer right off the bat.

Don't be a shallow fan. We have fans here who bash the Eagles for holding onto developing players who never develop.

The same fans bash the Eagles for letting good players go who develop later on in their careers.

Some players don't become dominant until later in their years. They aren't at their prime as rookies.

And us calling people out? Go for it, man. I can guarantee we're the only forum on the internet with a "Fire Andy Reid" thread when we were 2-0. We aren't a forum of homers. We are a forum that bashes our team constantly. The homers just have better arguments Wink

What do the Eagles owe me? I stream their games, and bought an Eagles hat once like 4 years ago. Sweet, do they owe me a Super Bowl?

The Eagles are spending a lot of money and making a lot of changes to give the fans a Championship. How can you deny this? They're reaching out getting elite players from all around the league.

And it's not as simple as firing the status quo. Do you remember me talking about context and making references to similar developments from around the league?

Were the Broncos better off letting Shanahan go and going with Josh McDaniels?

Were the Boston Red Sox better off letting Francona go and going with Bobby Valentine?

Fans should be cautious about making rash decisions.

Some kids only care about the presents on Christmas.

Me? I enjoy the family dinners, and seeing my family happy on Christmas. Sure the presents (Super Bowl) are great, but there are ways to appreciate the game without winning a Super Bowl every season which is freaking impossible regardless of who is at HC, QB, RB, or whatever.

It is seriously pointless to criticize little parts of a team under the salary cap. Only 3 teams are undefeated. that means 29 other teams have suffered losses already. Teams lose. We will lose a lot. And we will continue to lose as long as you watch this game, but at some point, we might get lucky and win it all.

Nobody is stopping you from criticizing the team. It's good. We should be overcritical of our team. We root for them, we want excellence. All things I agree with.

I disagree with the rashness some display in achieving healthy criticism.


Oh Come one, you can't seriously be implying that Kolb was the right choice or that some how he is a good QB?

I wouldn't be so critical of the team if they hadn't showed the same mistakes over and over again. I like what the Eagles do on FA and the way they manage the salary cap.

I get that some players don't be dominant until later, but letting go of Kolb was the right choice, the guy has been benched with the Cardinals for a reason and it's not like the guy is into his 3rd or 4th year. My point is, why defend a player when someone is calling their flaws, when those flaws are there? I mean it's a fact.

As I said earlier, Andy Reid is a good coach, he could have turned around the Rams in two seasons. He would be unemployed as long as he wanted. He has a lot of strengths. But the product has become stale with us because the guy is so stubborn and refuses to acknowledge his mistakes and has too much power to have someone make up for them. His draft philosophy is also very bad.

We know Andy is a good coach but he won't win us a SB because he doesn't learn from his mistakes, chances are we won't get a better guy right away but at least we will be looking for someone instead of hoping for the guy to change when he has had almost a decade and a half to do so. What reasons do we have to believe he will improve now after all this time and when his advantage when he was successful is gone (weak NFC)?

But at the end of the day I want to be proved wrong. The only thing I want is for the Eagles to win it all. I get that you enjoy good seasons without SB rings, I do too. But there's also a point when being just good is not enough.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Quote:
I'm not saying he's a good first round selection.

I'm saying you're wrong in saying he can't be defended. This is the kind of blind rashness I'm talking about.

Check the game film. Watkins had a good game. Grounds to be defended.


Like I said before, even a blind squirell finds a nut everyone once in awhile. Just because he MAY have had one good game, doesn't change the fact that he's been below average since we drafted him.

I'm saying you're wrong in defending him. If you draft an offensive guard[a low value spot in the first place] in the first round, you expect to get a great player, we've gotten a bad player. We have come to expect bad play from our draft picks, and you defending that proves it.

I would guarantee that if Jarrett was still on the team, you guys would defend him.


On my phone and can't post everything right now. Don't mean to pull a PE on you.

If you expect greatness from the first round, fine. Where you're making a huge misinterpretation is where you find a connection between someone like me defending Watkins and making the assumption that I never had high expectations for him or believe that he was the "right" pick.

First if your approach is that all 1st rounders should be all-stars... then you're lighting matches at a gas station and expecting not everything to blow up. Some teams even draft based on potential.

Have you ever made an investment? That's all the draft or free agency is. Sometimes you invest in blue chips, sometimes you take risks and hope it turns out. But either way what you get is what you get and once you have it, you look for improvements.

In a way I agree with you. He hasn't been as good as we hoped. But I disagree on giving up on him.

Provide evidence that Watkins isn't good. I gave you our worst game and showed he played well.
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Phire


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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 50920
Location: #FSU #championchip #2012BirdsHoF #2012GoldStnd #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
Phire wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
It'd be easier to say "even a blind squirel finds a nut every once in awhile" - but it's possible we could be.

Broadway Joe wrote:
let's give credit when it's deserved like this draft, and not defending players who don't deserve to be.


Good posts guys. Well put.


I call bull crap on BJ's quote.

I see a lot of people attacking players who don't deserve to be attacked.

But in a league where fans send death threats to players who make mistakes in a game, is it all that surprising?


If anything we need to be more critical of this team. I mean here in FF. There's plenty of people who trash people who doesn't deserve to be. But here in FF the majority is the other way around. My post was directed to the fans in here.


Have you ever met a football fan outside FF and tried to talk to them? If you're exposed to the discussion here you're much more knowledgeable than most casual fans.

If you can name all 5 starting offensive linemen on your team, then you are more knowledgeable than the casual fan.

The guys here know who we drafted three years ago by heart.

There's a strong correlation between knowledge of the game and being more fair to players. Casual fans see win and losses. The team wins, they're the greatest team ever. The team loses? They suck.

That's what we don't want to be here.


Actually no I haven't talked to any fans outside this forum. Before I came to FF I was the only Eagles fans I knew in the God forsaken Cowboys loving city.

But I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I feel we are homers in this forum. I mean I like your keeping it cool philosophy and actually admire it. I wish I could be like that after so much heartbreak.

But being optimistic doesn't mean we have to tolerate crap or that things are good when they aren't. We wait too much to call someone out when they aren't performing (unless that someone is Vick), we seem to believe we have a better coach than we really do, we try to justify their shortcomings way too much. The only way people seem to know when someone is bad or doesn't deserve to be on this team is when they are gone, which is usually way overdue. Like with McDermott.

As I said in my other post we owe this team nothing, we are their consumers and as such we should demand excellence, specially us Eagles fans who have fallen short too many times and disappointed way more. We have 0 trophies and teams have been passing us by left and right, we should demand just the best.


People here sympathize with players not because we're homers.

It's because we're educated and we can identify context and reference similar developments from various years and apply it to our own situation and circumstances.

I was laughing inside while we lost to Arizona. Wasn't Kolb basically shunned by Eagles fans? How he could never win anything. He's terrible. Can't make passes. Things could change fast, and I think they will, but the guy is 3-0 right now in Arizona. He beat his former team after beating Brady and Belichick in their own house.

Not everyone is a sure-fire hall of famer right off the bat.

Don't be a shallow fan. We have fans here who bash the Eagles for holding onto developing players who never develop.

The same fans bash the Eagles for letting good players go who develop later on in their careers.

Some players don't become dominant until later in their years. They aren't at their prime as rookies.

And us calling people out? Go for it, man. I can guarantee we're the only forum on the internet with a "Fire Andy Reid" thread when we were 2-0. We aren't a forum of homers. We are a forum that bashes our team constantly. The homers just have better arguments Wink

What do the Eagles owe me? I stream their games, and bought an Eagles hat once like 4 years ago. Sweet, do they owe me a Super Bowl?

The Eagles are spending a lot of money and making a lot of changes to give the fans a Championship. How can you deny this? They're reaching out getting elite players from all around the league.

And it's not as simple as firing the status quo. Do you remember me talking about context and making references to similar developments from around the league?

Were the Broncos better off letting Shanahan go and going with Josh McDaniels?

Were the Boston Red Sox better off letting Francona go and going with Bobby Valentine?

Fans should be cautious about making rash decisions.

Some kids only care about the presents on Christmas.

Me? I enjoy the family dinners, and seeing my family happy on Christmas. Sure the presents (Super Bowl) are great, but there are ways to appreciate the game without winning a Super Bowl every season which is freaking impossible regardless of who is at HC, QB, RB, or whatever.

It is seriously pointless to criticize little parts of a team under the salary cap. Only 3 teams are undefeated. that means 29 other teams have suffered losses already. Teams lose. We will lose a lot. And we will continue to lose as long as you watch this game, but at some point, we might get lucky and win it all.

Nobody is stopping you from criticizing the team. It's good. We should be overcritical of our team. We root for them, we want excellence. All things I agree with.

I disagree with the rashness some display in achieving healthy criticism.


Oh Come one, you can't seriously be implying that Kolb was the right choice or that some how he is a good QB?

I wouldn't be so critical of the team if they hadn't showed the same mistakes over and over again. I like what the Eagles do on FA and the way they manage the salary cap.

I get that some players don't be dominant until later, but letting go of Kolb was the right choice, the guy has been benched with the Cardinals for a reason and it's not like the guy is into his 3rd or 4th year. My point is, why defend a player when someone is calling their flaws, when those flaws are there? I mean it's a fact.

As I said earlier, Andy Reid is a good coach, he could have turned around the Rams in two seasons. He would be unemployed as long as he wanted. He has a lot of strengths. But the product has become stale with us because the guy is so stubborn and refuses to acknowledge his mistakes and has too much power to have someone make up for them. His draft philosophy is also very bad.

We know Andy is a good coach but he won't win us a SB because he doesn't learn from his mistakes, chances are we won't get a better guy right away but at least we will be looking for someone instead of hoping for the guy to change when he has had almost a decade and a half to do so. What reasons do we have to believe he will improve now after all this time and when his advantage when he was successful is gone (weak NFC)?

But at the end of the day I want to be proved wrong. The only thing I want is for the Eagles to win it all. I get that you enjoy good seasons without SB rings, I do too. But there's also a point when being just good is not enough.


On my phone and on my way to practice so I can't post much.

No, that wasn't my point about Kolb.

My point was everyone trashed him and I thought it was ironically funny he was trashing us last week.
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Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
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Remixxxxxxx


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 12382
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Quote:
I'm not saying he's a good first round selection.

I'm saying you're wrong in saying he can't be defended. This is the kind of blind rashness I'm talking about.

Check the game film. Watkins had a good game. Grounds to be defended.


Like I said before, even a blind squirell finds a nut everyone once in awhile. Just because he MAY have had one good game, doesn't change the fact that he's been below average since we drafted him.

I'm saying you're wrong in defending him. If you draft an offensive guard[a low value spot in the first place] in the first round, you expect to get a great player, we've gotten a bad player. We have come to expect bad play from our draft picks, and you defending that proves it.

I would guarantee that if Jarrett was still on the team, you guys would defend him.


On my phone and can't post everything right now. Don't mean to pull a PE on you.

If you expect greatness from the first round, fine. Where you're making a huge misinterpretation is where you find a connection between someone like me defending Watkins and making the assumption that I never had high expectations for him or believe that he was the "right" pick.

First if your approach is that all 1st rounders should be all-stars... then you're lighting matches at a gas station and expecting not everything to blow up. Some teams even draft based on potential.

Have you ever made an investment? That's all the draft or free agency is. Sometimes you invest in blue chips, sometimes you take risks and hope it turns out. But either way what you get is what you get and once you have it, you look for improvements.

In a way I agree with you. He hasn't been as good as we hoped. But I disagree on giving up on him.

Provide evidence that Watkins isn't good. I gave you our worst game and showed he played well.


No, I don't believe all should be all-stars, but we get literally nothing out of our first rounders. We get no impact out of them at all, and you guys[not directed at you] sit here and defend them like no tomorrow.

It's an issue with this fan base that we're used to minimal impact out of our draft picks. When you draft a 26 year old OG in the first round you expect to get a major impact out of him. That's what we were supposed to be getting - instead we got someone who is barely mediocre.

I can't find you anything that shows he's bad, I'm on my phone as well.
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Eagles_808


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 27814
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On to the next one...

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14709225#14709225
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