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Could we give up 79+ sacks in 2012?
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JohnnyV


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
Two sacks given up yesterday, that makes 46.

The oline is improving, no doubt about it. Ran game still is poor, almost zero push in the middle.

I think LG, C and RT are safe next year. Massie has improved immensily and Lyle has played better as of late. Colledge remains solid.

Snyder is better, but that's not saying much to where he was earlier. Dumb penalty yesterday.

Potter has held up admirably, and I'll feel very comfortable with him as a third OT in year two.


Actuallt the run game was lot better OL wise if you watch it back. First 2 plays of the game should have both been 10-15 yard runs b y Beanie but he was slipping around, Khodder showed another highlighted play in the gameday thread where Beanie has a massive backside hole but he doesn't make the cut (Correction: He can't make the cut. He's literally incapable. That's the main reason we even took Ryan Williams). While it wasn't a phenomenal effort up front in the run game, it's much better than you'd think if you watch it back.

Snyder's been pretty damn good the last 2 weeks but that doesn't erase the previous damage. He's got to go for this OL to make any tangible improvement.


You think we got a shot at Luke from A&M?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
Two sacks given up yesterday, that makes 46.

The oline is improving, no doubt about it. Ran game still is poor, almost zero push in the middle.

I think LG, C and RT are safe next year. Massie has improved immensily and Lyle has played better as of late. Colledge remains solid.

Snyder is better, but that's not saying much to where he was earlier. Dumb penalty yesterday.

Potter has held up admirably, and I'll feel very comfortable with him as a third OT in year two.


Actuallt the run game was lot better OL wise if you watch it back. First 2 plays of the game should have both been 10-15 yard runs b y Beanie but he was slipping around, Khodder showed another highlighted play in the gameday thread where Beanie has a massive backside hole but he doesn't make the cut (Correction: He can't make the cut. He's literally incapable. That's the main reason we even took Ryan Williams). While it wasn't a phenomenal effort up front in the run game, it's much better than you'd think if you watch it back.

Snyder's been pretty damn good the last 2 weeks but that doesn't erase the previous damage. He's got to go for this OL to make any tangible improvement.


You think we got a shot at Luke from A&M?


Conventional wisdom would say no beings as he probably is the best player in this entire draft class (Assuming he enters this draft class) but the teams that I think will definitely pick ahead of us don't have needs at the left tackle spot. Kansas City has Branden Albert and while he is an UFA, most Chiefs fans are praying he stays (And if he doesn't, he's got to be a target for us in free agency). Kansas City's taking Geno Smith anyway, IMHO. Jacksonville has Eugene Monroe, Carolina has Jordan Gross who, despite up and down play, is due a boat load of cash and can't really be cut and/or moved to right tackle. Cleveland has Joe Thomas...Philadelphia and Oakland both need left tackles, as could a few other teams that may pick ahead of us but they could all easily pick behind us too. Teams like us and Philly and Oakland are all a crap shoot right now for trying to peg where we'll end up. Bottom line, while I wouldn't put any money on it, I think we've got a real chance.
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Boise&cards Fan


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the real chance Arizona takes a OL with its first pick. All so what the chance of a team trading up to get a LT.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boise&cards Fan wrote:
What the real chance Arizona takes a OL with its first pick. All so what the chance of a team trading up to get a LT.

This draft is deep in OL talent and there are several good options at OT. I'd be upset if we moved up in the 1st round to select a T.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boise&cards Fan wrote:
What the real chance Arizona takes a OL with its first pick. All so what the chance of a team trading up to get a LT.


Taking an offensive lineman? 50-50 IMO, probably more. I asked this a while back to about 4-5 posters and got no answer, which validated things for me. If we don't take an offensive lineman and we don't take a player at a position we're completely set at, who are we gonna take? If we exclude every single player with a 1st round grade who is either an offensive lineman or plays one of the (Admittedly few) positions we're legitimately set at, you have like 7-9 guys left over and 3 of them (Johnathan Hankins, Star Lotulelei and Bjoern Werner) are purely 4-3 prospects. You're left with Jarvis Jones, Damontre Moore and Manti Teo (All HUGE needs themselves). Maybe Dee Milliner...maybe. Everyone else either plays a position we're set at or is an offensive lineman. Simply put, something has to give.

Trade up potentials? I couldn't even take a guess. Sorry.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is Rob Rang's top 15 big board as of November 22nd:

1. Luke Joeckel, OT Texas A&M
2. Jarvis Jones, OLB Georgia
3. Star Lotulelei, DT Utah
4. Damontre Moore, DE Texas A&M
5. Manti Teo, ILB Notre Dame
6. Chance Warmack, OG Alabama
7. Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M
8. Keenan Allen, WR California
9. Geno Smith, QB West Virginia
10. Sheldon Richardson, DT Missouri
11. Barkevious Mingo, DE LSU
12. Jonathan Jenkins, DT/3-4 NT Georgia
13. Bjoern Werner, DE Florida State
14. Johnathan Hankins, DT Ohio State
15. Taylor Lewan, OT Michigan


Now, take away every player who plays a position we're set at, every player who doesn't fit our defense and every offensive lineman. You're left with 5 players. Jones, Moore, Teo, Smith and Mingo. I'm not trying to brag but this is just further validation of my point. If we don't take an offensive lineman and a couple of these 4-5 players are off the board (A virtual certainty), we're gonna end up reaching 5-15 spots for a player, something we're dead set against doing (For good reason). Something has to give fellas.
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#1CARDSFAN


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Dee Miliner was a top 15 prospect?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#1CARDSFAN wrote:
I thought Dee Miliner was a top 15 prospect?


I personally think he is and a lot of other analysts have him in their top 15. Rang has him at 17. Here's his full round 1 board for reference:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board
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khodder


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to put this one out here. In the last three games (Nate Potter's starts) Arizona has allowed 7 sacks on 117 dropbacks. If you include the Packers game (of which Potter played a fair bit) we have allowed 9 sacks on 167 dropbacks. That is a Sack percetnage between 5.5 and 6.

That number sits squarely in the middle of the league, right around league average.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can live with Potter

He is getting better and is really really cheap.

We can focus on getting better elsewhere, as NFL average is ok with me.

Imagine how good he will be after 10 games, or 20 games?

Upward curve etc.
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Boise&cards Fan


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current play would be good enough for a good QB. Arizona just does not have any.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interior is still god awful.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
The interior is still god awful.


Too bad Carl Nicks isn't on the market. Who's the best FA Guard this year?
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slim pickings at fa guard, better off drafting 1 or 2
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though he hadn't been playing well this season, it's obvious that Ohrnberger is a clear step down from Lyle Sendlein.

This is a rich guard draft. There's 4-5 guys I really like and only 1-2 are potential 1st round picks. If we're looking to replace Adam Snyder, this is a good year to do that. That said, I think it's pretty clear the OL isn't our big problem. Still A problems that needs to be addressed but the OL isn't holding us back right now.
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