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E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seminoles1 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
His maturity really impresses me. I think this is a weak QB class, but in that group I'd have Manuel #3 at this point behind the top two of Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. He's athletic, intelligent, CAN make all of the throws, and has the ability to get more polished.

To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.
That's the frustrating part. The guy has almost everything you want in a QB prospect. He's big, he's athletic, he's got a very good arm, he's extremely accurate on everything under 15 yards, he made (almost) all the line calls and audibles this season, he has a great work ethic, and he comes from a pro style offense...

...but the guy just makes boneheaded plays and his downfield accuracy is so freaking inconsistent. He'll make a perfect throw 40+ yards downfield even if there's great coverage and come back the next series and miss a wide open WR for an easy TD. You really question if he can get much better or eliminate those 2 problems even with more coaching. He's been in Jimbo's system for 5 seasons and had plenty of starting experience, yet the guy was making true freshman mistakes against Florida and NC State.

He worries me. After the Clemson game I (and all of Tomahawk Nation) had huge expectations for him, but he let me down. I'd take him in the late 2nd-3rd because he does have every attribute you want in a QB, but you have to eliminate those 2 problems or he'll never make it as a starter.


To be honest, I think that downfield inconsistency is something he can work on. At least, if I was a coach, I would find that problem much more correctable than, say, having a guy who can't feel pressure in the pocket or consistently tries to throw to covered guys.
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.


It's one of the reasons in which I asked about him; While I still have some support for Texans QB Matt Schaub, the last month has really made me question whether or not he is the QB who can take the Texans to that upper-level that we were all hoping for as this season moved on. Maybe I'm pessimistic (no, I AM pessimistic) but the last few weeks, along with a few other instances tells me that he might not be the guy.

I think the Texans will be in the market for a QB, a lowly valued guy who has tools, but didn't put it together, someone who is coachable and might have a very deep floor, but also has a fairly high ceiling. Manuel in the late 3rd might make some sense, someone that Gary Kubiak can groom and take over if Matt Schaub continues to falter. Even if Schaub snaps out of his funk and has a great postseason, it wouldn't hurt to have a "what if" player on the bench, being tutored by a QB-centric coach such as Kubiak.


If the Texans want to draft a successor to Schaub, they should look for a sit and learn type QB. Considering the fact that Schaub is still a good QB and Kubiak is a good QB-centric coach, I think they can afford to take a guy who they think could turn into a top QB in a few years. Even if it means the QB never sees the field until at least year 3, I don't think the Texans would benefit much from taking a guy like Manuel, who is closer to pro-ready, but has a lower ceiling. I think that the Texans could look at Zac Dysert (doubt he makes past the early 2nd round) or Ryan Nassib to be this year's Colin Kaepernick.
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seminoles1


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
seminoles1 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
His maturity really impresses me. I think this is a weak QB class, but in that group I'd have Manuel #3 at this point behind the top two of Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. He's athletic, intelligent, CAN make all of the throws, and has the ability to get more polished.

To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.
That's the frustrating part. The guy has almost everything you want in a QB prospect. He's big, he's athletic, he's got a very good arm, he's extremely accurate on everything under 15 yards, he made (almost) all the line calls and audibles this season, he has a great work ethic, and he comes from a pro style offense...

...but the guy just makes boneheaded plays and his downfield accuracy is so freaking inconsistent. He'll make a perfect throw 40+ yards downfield even if there's great coverage and come back the next series and miss a wide open WR for an easy TD. You really question if he can get much better or eliminate those 2 problems even with more coaching. He's been in Jimbo's system for 5 seasons and had plenty of starting experience, yet the guy was making true freshman mistakes against Florida and NC State.

He worries me. After the Clemson game I (and all of Tomahawk Nation) had huge expectations for him, but he let me down. I'd take him in the late 2nd-3rd because he does have every attribute you want in a QB, but you have to eliminate those 2 problems or he'll never make it as a starter.
To be honest, I think that downfield inconsistency is something he can work on. At least, if I was a coach, I would find that problem much more correctable than, say, having a guy who can't feel pressure in the pocket or consistently tries to throw to covered guys.
Manuel has that problem outside the pocket. He seems to think that once he's outside the pocket then he can't get sacked.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll say this much. EJ's progress has really impressed me this year. Last year, I didn't get the feeling I was watching a kid with the mental tools and instincts to play QB. He really stepped up this year.

However, he still struggles reading the blitz off the edge and really seems to fail to recognize blitzers from the secondary when I watch him.

He also is far too immobile in the pocket. He gets stone feet and looks like a statue. He's going to need to work on maneuvering the pocket and keeping moving/light on his feet. His pocket presence as a whole needs overhauling. But he's not scared back there which is a big positive. Just needs awareness.

As a thrower, a lot of talent but can make some bad decisions and will make some off target throws. Still, he appears to me to be a very intriguing developmental guy. Has a lot of Jason Campbell in him though. Really needs to improve on read defenses and the blitz. If he can do that and continue to work on his ball placement and pocket presence, he can be a very good QB. But that's a lot.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seminoles1 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
His maturity really impresses me. I think this is a weak QB class, but in that group I'd have Manuel #3 at this point behind the top two of Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. He's athletic, intelligent, CAN make all of the throws, and has the ability to get more polished.

To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.
That's the frustrating part. The guy has almost everything you want in a QB prospect. He's big, he's athletic, he's got a very good arm, he's extremely accurate on everything under 15 yards, he made (almost) all the line calls and audibles this season, he has a great work ethic, and he comes from a pro style offense...

...but the guy just makes boneheaded plays and his downfield accuracy is so freaking inconsistent. He'll make a perfect throw 40+ yards downfield even if there's great coverage and come back the next series and miss a wide open WR for an easy TD. You really question if he can get much better or eliminate those 2 problems even with more coaching. He's been in Jimbo's system for 5 seasons and had plenty of starting experience, yet the guy was making true freshman mistakes against Florida and NC State.

He worries me. After the Clemson game I (and all of Tomahawk Nation) had huge expectations for him, but he let me down. I'd take him in the late 2nd-3rd because he does have every attribute you want in a QB, but you have to eliminate those 2 problems or he'll never make it as a starter.


I feel the same. Great developmental 2nd or 3rd round pick. Get him with NFL coaching and see what he can do because he's made big strides this year. I know the Rams coaches have been able to greatly improve Bradford's footwork in the pocket, his awareness in the pocket, the way he feels pressure and his ability to maneuver the pocket in 1 year.

That's probably EJ's biggest negative aside from his inconsistent ball placement.
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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NFLSoup


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
seminoles1 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
His maturity really impresses me. I think this is a weak QB class, but in that group I'd have Manuel #3 at this point behind the top two of Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. He's athletic, intelligent, CAN make all of the throws, and has the ability to get more polished.

To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.
That's the frustrating part. The guy has almost everything you want in a QB prospect. He's big, he's athletic, he's got a very good arm, he's extremely accurate on everything under 15 yards, he made (almost) all the line calls and audibles this season, he has a great work ethic, and he comes from a pro style offense...

...but the guy just makes boneheaded plays and his downfield accuracy is so freaking inconsistent. He'll make a perfect throw 40+ yards downfield even if there's great coverage and come back the next series and miss a wide open WR for an easy TD. You really question if he can get much better or eliminate those 2 problems even with more coaching. He's been in Jimbo's system for 5 seasons and had plenty of starting experience, yet the guy was making true freshman mistakes against Florida and NC State.

He worries me. After the Clemson game I (and all of Tomahawk Nation) had huge expectations for him, but he let me down. I'd take him in the late 2nd-3rd because he does have every attribute you want in a QB, but you have to eliminate those 2 problems or he'll never make it as a starter.


To be honest, I think that downfield inconsistency is something he can work on. At least, if I was a coach, I would find that problem much more correctable than, say, having a guy who can't feel pressure in the pocket or consistently tries to throw to covered guys.


The inconsistency downfield isn't all on Manuel either. FSU's receivers have also been inconsistent, and none of them are really great route runners.

Manuel has upside and he is a bright kid. I look forward to following him this off-season to see how he performs in front of scouts.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EJ Manuel is one of the guys who could benefit if the Pistol offense became more prevalent in the NFL

BUt he's too inconsistent to go anywhere near the first couple of rounds
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.


It's one of the reasons in which I asked about him; While I still have some support for Texans QB Matt Schaub, the last month has really made me question whether or not he is the QB who can take the Texans to that upper-level that we were all hoping for as this season moved on. Maybe I'm pessimistic (no, I AM pessimistic) but the last few weeks, along with a few other instances tells me that he might not be the guy.

I think the Texans will be in the market for a QB, a lowly valued guy who has tools, but didn't put it together, someone who is coachable and might have a very deep floor, but also has a fairly high ceiling. Manuel in the late 3rd might make some sense, someone that Gary Kubiak can groom and take over if Matt Schaub continues to falter. Even if Schaub snaps out of his funk and has a great postseason, it wouldn't hurt to have a "what if" player on the bench, being tutored by a QB-centric coach such as Kubiak.


If the Texans want to draft a successor to Schaub, they should look for a sit and learn type QB. Considering the fact that Schaub is still a good QB and Kubiak is a good QB-centric coach, I think they can afford to take a guy who they think could turn into a top QB in a few years. Even if it means the QB never sees the field until at least year 3, I don't think the Texans would benefit much from taking a guy like Manuel, who is closer to pro-ready, but has a lower ceiling. I think that the Texans could look at Zac Dysert (doubt he makes past the early 2nd round) or Ryan Nassib to be this year's Colin Kaepernick.


...seems like everything you're saying is the stark opposite of what everyone else is saying. Manuel has a ceiling that is out of this world, but needs a LOT of time to mature and pick up the offense. If given time, he can reach some special levels.

That's what I'm taking from the rest of the discussion, at least.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big, athletic, big arm, but struggles occasionally with accuracy and overall consistency? Hello Josh Freeman.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
Big, athletic, big arm, but struggles occasionally with accuracy and overall consistency? Hello Josh Freeman.


Yeah but he has more wheels than Josh Freeman which could help his learning curve.

That's again why he belongs in a pistol type offense

But noone should go near Manuel in the 1st couple of rounds no matter how impressive he wows them with arm strength and workouts
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.


It's one of the reasons in which I asked about him; While I still have some support for Texans QB Matt Schaub, the last month has really made me question whether or not he is the QB who can take the Texans to that upper-level that we were all hoping for as this season moved on. Maybe I'm pessimistic (no, I AM pessimistic) but the last few weeks, along with a few other instances tells me that he might not be the guy.

I think the Texans will be in the market for a QB, a lowly valued guy who has tools, but didn't put it together, someone who is coachable and might have a very deep floor, but also has a fairly high ceiling. Manuel in the late 3rd might make some sense, someone that Gary Kubiak can groom and take over if Matt Schaub continues to falter. Even if Schaub snaps out of his funk and has a great postseason, it wouldn't hurt to have a "what if" player on the bench, being tutored by a QB-centric coach such as Kubiak.


If the Texans want to draft a successor to Schaub, they should look for a sit and learn type QB. Considering the fact that Schaub is still a good QB and Kubiak is a good QB-centric coach, I think they can afford to take a guy who they think could turn into a top QB in a few years. Even if it means the QB never sees the field until at least year 3, I don't think the Texans would benefit much from taking a guy like Manuel, who is closer to pro-ready, but has a lower ceiling. I think that the Texans could look at Zac Dysert (doubt he makes past the early 2nd round) or Ryan Nassib to be this year's Colin Kaepernick.


...seems like everything you're saying is the stark opposite of what everyone else is saying. Manuel has a ceiling that is out of this world, but needs a LOT of time to mature and pick up the offense. If given time, he can reach some special levels.

That's what I'm taking from the rest of the discussion, at least.


The fact that he is a 4-year starter on one of the top schools in the ACC and is still this inconsistent makes me think that he will not be able to master the mental aspects of the game. When I think of a raw, high upside QB, I tend to think of someone who either played for a smaller school or who only started for a year or two in college. Manuel has had a very good supporting cast and I don't think he has the intangibles necessary to be a franchise QB. The Texans would be better off rolling the dice on a Dysert or Glennon, as would pretty much any team that can afford to draft a QB to sit behind a vet for 2+ years.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.


It's one of the reasons in which I asked about him; While I still have some support for Texans QB Matt Schaub, the last month has really made me question whether or not he is the QB who can take the Texans to that upper-level that we were all hoping for as this season moved on. Maybe I'm pessimistic (no, I AM pessimistic) but the last few weeks, along with a few other instances tells me that he might not be the guy.

I think the Texans will be in the market for a QB, a lowly valued guy who has tools, but didn't put it together, someone who is coachable and might have a very deep floor, but also has a fairly high ceiling. Manuel in the late 3rd might make some sense, someone that Gary Kubiak can groom and take over if Matt Schaub continues to falter. Even if Schaub snaps out of his funk and has a great postseason, it wouldn't hurt to have a "what if" player on the bench, being tutored by a QB-centric coach such as Kubiak.


If the Texans want to draft a successor to Schaub, they should look for a sit and learn type QB. Considering the fact that Schaub is still a good QB and Kubiak is a good QB-centric coach, I think they can afford to take a guy who they think could turn into a top QB in a few years. Even if it means the QB never sees the field until at least year 3, I don't think the Texans would benefit much from taking a guy like Manuel, who is closer to pro-ready, but has a lower ceiling. I think that the Texans could look at Zac Dysert (doubt he makes past the early 2nd round) or Ryan Nassib to be this year's Colin Kaepernick.


...seems like everything you're saying is the stark opposite of what everyone else is saying. Manuel has a ceiling that is out of this world, but needs a LOT of time to mature and pick up the offense. If given time, he can reach some special levels.

That's what I'm taking from the rest of the discussion, at least.


The fact that he is a 4-year starter on one of the top schools in the ACC and is still this inconsistent makes me think that he will not be able to master the mental aspects of the game. When I think of a raw, high upside QB, I tend to think of someone who either played for a smaller school or who only started for a year or two in college. Manuel has had a very good supporting cast and I don't think he has the intangibles necessary to be a franchise QB. The Texans would be better off rolling the dice on a Dysert or Glennon, as would pretty much any team that can afford to draft a QB to sit behind a vet for 2+ years.


Manuel is pretty much the definition of a high upside QB. But it doesn't mean he'll get anywhere near that upside. He's a 6'4" 240 pound QB with a strong arm and 4.6 or 4.7 speed. He has a really high ceiling.

I just am not sold he'll get there. Reminds me of Jason Campbell. But we'll see. Definitely has progressed tenfold this year.

And Manuel isn't a 4 year starter. He's a 2 year starter. Ponder was there before him.
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Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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KCDiehard88


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much of an effect would it have on his progression this year and his concentration/focus level having to deal with his mother having cancer?

From all accounts I have heard is that he is a very mature individual with good leadership qualities.

He intrigues me as a potential mid round pick for the Chiefs if we were to double dip.
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
green24 wrote:
EliteTexan80 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
To me, Manuel is one of the more coachable prospects in this class, can play in almost any offensive system, and has his best days ahead of him. I wouldn't pick him too early, but I'd feel comfortable spending a Day 2 pick on him and trying to help him develop.


It's one of the reasons in which I asked about him; While I still have some support for Texans QB Matt Schaub, the last month has really made me question whether or not he is the QB who can take the Texans to that upper-level that we were all hoping for as this season moved on. Maybe I'm pessimistic (no, I AM pessimistic) but the last few weeks, along with a few other instances tells me that he might not be the guy.

I think the Texans will be in the market for a QB, a lowly valued guy who has tools, but didn't put it together, someone who is coachable and might have a very deep floor, but also has a fairly high ceiling. Manuel in the late 3rd might make some sense, someone that Gary Kubiak can groom and take over if Matt Schaub continues to falter. Even if Schaub snaps out of his funk and has a great postseason, it wouldn't hurt to have a "what if" player on the bench, being tutored by a QB-centric coach such as Kubiak.


If the Texans want to draft a successor to Schaub, they should look for a sit and learn type QB. Considering the fact that Schaub is still a good QB and Kubiak is a good QB-centric coach, I think they can afford to take a guy who they think could turn into a top QB in a few years. Even if it means the QB never sees the field until at least year 3, I don't think the Texans would benefit much from taking a guy like Manuel, who is closer to pro-ready, but has a lower ceiling. I think that the Texans could look at Zac Dysert (doubt he makes past the early 2nd round) or Ryan Nassib to be this year's Colin Kaepernick.


...seems like everything you're saying is the stark opposite of what everyone else is saying. Manuel has a ceiling that is out of this world, but needs a LOT of time to mature and pick up the offense. If given time, he can reach some special levels.

That's what I'm taking from the rest of the discussion, at least.


The fact that he is a 4-year starter on one of the top schools in the ACC and is still this inconsistent makes me think that he will not be able to master the mental aspects of the game. When I think of a raw, high upside QB, I tend to think of someone who either played for a smaller school or who only started for a year or two in college. Manuel has had a very good supporting cast and I don't think he has the intangibles necessary to be a franchise QB. The Texans would be better off rolling the dice on a Dysert or Glennon, as would pretty much any team that can afford to draft a QB to sit behind a vet for 2+ years.


Manuel is pretty much the definition of a high upside QB. But it doesn't mean he'll get anywhere near that upside. He's a 6'4" 240 pound QB with a strong arm and 4.6 or 4.7 speed. He has a really high ceiling.

I just am not sold he'll get there. Reminds me of Jason Campbell. But we'll see. Definitely has progressed tenfold this year.

And Manuel isn't a 4 year starter. He's a 2 year starter. Ponder was there before him.

Not sure why I thought that. Stupid me.

I still think his biggest problems are between the ears. I agree with the Jason Campbell comp. I don't think he has the "it" factor.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:

Not sure why I thought that. Stupid me.

I still think his biggest problems are between the ears. I agree with the Jason Campbell comp. I don't think he has the "it" factor.


There's no such thing as an "it" factor.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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