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detfan782004
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 39116
Location: Montana
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 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| doomer wrote: | | vike daddy wrote: | ^yup.
While it was a victory [for the players] on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.
Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).
It’s likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred — and that there should be significant punishment for it.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/leagues-internal-memo-suggests-that-suspensions-will-be-re-issued/related/ |
Goodell could reinstate the suspensions but the CBA process would kick in and the players would appeal. He would also have to provide the evidence he relied on to prove intent to injure. No notes scribbled on a napkin or "he said, she said" this time. Not to mention a Judge will be scrutinizing his every move.
If the clear cut evidence is truly there, as Goodell has repeatedly claimed, then I have no doubt that there be another punishment coming. That's a pretty big "if" at this point though. |
Not really. Its more like when not if.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37188
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Steelerspower wrote: | | The NFL was the most popular league before the arrival of Goodell |
...and it STILL IS! If anything, there are more markets watching it now than ever before!
Before Roger Goodell came in, the NFL had to compete with the NBA as the most popular sporting league in the US, and since then the NFL has ran CIRCLES around the NBA in terms of viewership, revenue, TV contracts - you name it, the NFL outdoes many of its competetors COMBINED.
| Quote: | | Goodell has done nothing special in the NFL except to having too much power |
Sigh. We all know your agenda, Goodell could send you flowers on your birthday and you would call him the most evil man on the planet. There is literally NOTHING he can do to win you over, and you now have to resort to making false claims about how the league has lost some footing against its counterparts. If anything, the NFL has completely ran away from them in terms of profitability and popularity - I simply don't know HOW you can come to any conclusion outside of that.
Really, I don't. |
Please enlighten us what Goodell has specifically done that made the difference? Because I'm pretty sure that Goodell had nothing to do with the NBA's lack of quality control over the past decade. Or with the MLB holding out in 1994 which is what killed the MLB's reign as king. Or the NHL lockout in 2004 and 2012... Goodell clearly did those...
Football was destined for this movement before Goodell came along and he really hasn't done anything to truly be the difference between he and Tagliabue. |
Helped negotiate the largest TV deal in history.
Helped negotiate the new CBA and kept the league strike from shortening the season like the clowns in the NBA.
Changed the Pro-Bowl and earned the highest ratings ever.
Made drastic rule changes and penalties to ensure player safety at a time where that is a big headline and the effects are being seen from past players not being protected from vicious head shots.
He isn't just trying to keep it the #1 league, he's trying to enhance it as much as possible. He's also trying to ensure the FUTURE success of the league by making the players' safety a top concern. |
This is me waiting. |
I'm sorry bro... I have a wife, work full time and attend grad school. I can't monitor this topic 24/7. |
FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.
Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do.
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15512
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.
Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do. |
Sig'ed! Just sayin'... 
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 22670
Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Can't believe they got out of this, atleast for now 
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
"He is part of you, Robb. To fear him is to fear you."
"These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers." |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12072
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| BlaqOptic wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | nugpimpen wrote: | | BlaqOptic wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | | Steelerspower wrote: | | The NFL was the most popular league before the arrival of Goodell |
...and it STILL IS! If anything, there are more markets watching it now than ever before!
Before Roger Goodell came in, the NFL had to compete with the NBA as the most popular sporting league in the US, and since then the NFL has ran CIRCLES around the NBA in terms of viewership, revenue, TV contracts - you name it, the NFL outdoes many of its competetors COMBINED.
| Quote: | | Goodell has done nothing special in the NFL except to having too much power |
Sigh. We all know your agenda, Goodell could send you flowers on your birthday and you would call him the most evil man on the planet. There is literally NOTHING he can do to win you over, and you now have to resort to making false claims about how the league has lost some footing against its counterparts. If anything, the NFL has completely ran away from them in terms of profitability and popularity - I simply don't know HOW you can come to any conclusion outside of that.
Really, I don't. |
Please enlighten us what Goodell has specifically done that made the difference? Because I'm pretty sure that Goodell had nothing to do with the NBA's lack of quality control over the past decade. Or with the MLB holding out in 1994 which is what killed the MLB's reign as king. Or the NHL lockout in 2004 and 2012... Goodell clearly did those...
Football was destined for this movement before Goodell came along and he really hasn't done anything to truly be the difference between he and Tagliabue. |
Helped negotiate the largest TV deal in history.
Helped negotiate the new CBA and kept the league strike from shortening the season like the clowns in the NBA.
Changed the Pro-Bowl and earned the highest ratings ever.
Made drastic rule changes and penalties to ensure player safety at a time where that is a big headline and the effects are being seen from past players not being protected from vicious head shots.
He isn't just trying to keep it the #1 league, he's trying to enhance it as much as possible. He's also trying to ensure the FUTURE success of the league by making the players' safety a top concern. |
This is me waiting. |
I'm sorry bro... I have a wife, work full time and attend grad school. I can't monitor this topic 24/7. |
HAHA i was just messin with u man. We all got [inappropriate/removed] to do. Well mostly... I'm looken at you ET. 
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| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
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sammymvpknight
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 3298
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Jaguarfan wrote: | | sammymvpknight wrote: | | Jaguarfan wrote: | At least a few Saints fans actually recognize this shouldn't be happening.
Suspensions were totally justified. If you think otherwise, you're an idiot. |
I completely agree. Performance incentives amongst friends shouldn't happen throughout the league... I think the word idiot is a bit strong... they just have a different opinion. |
NO! IF THEY THINK DIFFERENTLY THEY ARE WRONG! |
When you put it that way...I guess you are right.  |
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sammymvpknight
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 3298
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: | | SaintsFantic101 wrote: | | I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this. |
Come on man... |
I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week. |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12072
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| sammymvpknight wrote: | | Harper41 wrote: | | SaintsFantic101 wrote: | | I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this. |
Come on man... |
I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week. |
I feel so bad for Harper
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| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
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green24
Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 26316
Location: #GenoSith
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: | | EliteTexan80 wrote: | FYI - I'm too drunk to respond properly now, but I have every intent on grinding my heel into your argument when I am sipping on Pho.
Sit tight; it will be painful, but you shall learn something. That's the least I can do. |
Sig'ed! Just sayin'... |
No you didn't...
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JMG and sandwhich on the sigs. |
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bucsfan333
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 21854
Location: Kempes on the sig
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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What kind of unholy uprising will there be if one of those guys hurts a player this year? What if it's during a game they were supposed to be suspended for?
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| BigBillsFan13 wrote: | | you're damn sexy too |
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CriminalMind
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 2959
Location: Toronto, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| PatriotsWin! wrote: | What I've gotten so far:
The players only "won" on a technicality b/c the language Goodell used didn't make it clear the offense fell under "conduct detrimental to the team/NFL". So Goodell will simply re-issue the suspensions, but this time use more precise language. So nothing has changed really. Saints players will still have to serve out their punishments. |
Yup, so when the NFL re-issues the documentation, we could very well see the suspensions later in the season or around playoff time.
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nolafan33
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1171
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | nolafan33 wrote: | | Honestly, I can't help but laugh at those of you who actually believe the Saints defenders took the field with the sole purpose to target and intentionally injure players. |
So lets just forget all the proof that was provided?
Give me a break. Even coaches basically admitted to it. |
I'd be interested in hearing how it was proven? |
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spilltray
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 8647
Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| sammymvpknight wrote: | | Harper41 wrote: | | SaintsFantic101 wrote: | | I believe we had a pay for performance system like many other teams but I will never believe we went out their with the intent to injury another player. And until they show some concrete and not bs "evidence" I will stay the same. And to so called Saints fan who believe they went out their to injure other players, shame on you. You're not a real fan. A real fan recognizes when their team is being railroaded and messed over like this. |
Come on man... |
I agree with SaintsFanatic. I don't think that Goodell has a shread of evidence that there was a "bounty" program. That was why the suspensions were so harsh. If this was simply a salary cap violation there is no way that the penalties would have been this harsh. Obviously the Saints deserve to get punished for salary cap violations...and in hindsight they should be punished for stupidity...but I think that Goodell is going to have a hard time proving that there was intent to injure. If he had this information, Big Willy style wouldn't be playing this week. |
Goodell has no issue at all proving intent. Legally, accepting payment for the results is proof of intent.
Say for instance my buddy and I hate cats. Cats get hit on the road from time to time. We say to each other "I'll give you $20 for every cat you run down. I drive normally hoping to get cats. He goes up on peoples lawns, swerves, and basically drives like a maniac trying to rack up a tally. In the end it doesn't matter if I was only taking money for cats I "accidentally" ran over. The fact that I was accepting money for it makes it implied intent. In the eyes of the law, the intent is the same.
They got him on the technicality that he combined it all into one offense when there is a salary portion that should have been handled separately in addition to the conduct detrimental to the league portion. If I'm not mistaken this might actually be WORSE for the players because in addition to a suspension that Goodell is the only arbitrator to, I believe salary violations can be fined (in addition to missing game checks).
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| Wilfred wrote: | | Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back. |
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J Pep 4 Step
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 25205
Location: Greenvillain, NC
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: | | doomer wrote: | | vike daddy wrote: | ^yup.
While it was a victory [for the players] on the surface, it was fairly hollow and potentially temporary.
Apart from the fact that the timing of the decision prevented the players from practicing in preparation for Week One, the ruling gives the NFL another chance to impose the suspensions in a way that draws clear lines between conduct detrimental to the game (over which Commissioner Roger Goodell has jurisdiction) and salary-cap violations arising from a pay-for-performance/bounty system (over which Goodell has no jurisdiction).
It’s likely that the league will simply re-issue the same suspensions. Indeed, the memo sent by NFL general counsel Jeff Pash to the various teams on Friday clearly indicates that the league continues to believe that wrongdoing occurred — and that there should be significant punishment for it.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/07/leagues-internal-memo-suggests-that-suspensions-will-be-re-issued/related/ |
Goodell could reinstate the suspensions but the CBA process would kick in and the players would appeal. He would also have to provide the evidence he relied on to prove intent to injure. No notes scribbled on a napkin or "he said, she said" this time. Not to mention a Judge will be scrutinizing his every move.
If the clear cut evidence is truly there, as Goodell has repeatedly claimed, then I have no doubt that there be another punishment coming. That's a pretty big "if" at this point though. |
Again... really? We're back on this intent? This isn't criminal court. Intent doesn't have to be proven. All that needs to be proven is that conduct detrimental to the league as a whole occurred and punitive actions can be taken.
And please, because if you're still trying to pretend to the contrary you're being willfully ignorant, stop with the presumption that the evidence that was released to the media by the Players' Association is the whole extent of all the evidence there is. This "well, I haven't seen it, so it must not exist" stance is naive and dumb. |
Ignored again... 
I think those two points are, without a doubt, the two most widely ignored points in the conversation. And theyve been ignored since day 1.
1. It doesnt matter if its a "Pay To Injure" program or a "Pay For Injure" program. Both are equally reprehensible and both deserve equal punishment.
2. The evidence we have seen isnt necessarily all the evidence. The evidence we have seen is exactly what the NFLPA wanted the fans to see. Thats it. If you dont believe every political ad you see because of the agenda thats fueling it, why would you believe what the NFLPA released is "the case, the whole case and nothing but the case?"
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Faulk's argument style is reminiscent of Mark Sanchez's passing style. Inconsistent as hell and all over the place. I'm just waiting for him to run into iPwn's butt and fumble. |
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nolafan33
Joined: 23 Feb 2009
Posts: 1171
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| The NFL has stated that the evidence released is all the evidence they have against the PLAYERS. |
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