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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | It's really not. It can point to other issues. I had a similar problem with Jimmy Clausen(there was more with Clausen though). |
What other issues are you insinuating it points to then? No point making an empty statement like that without backing it up. I think you're just nitpicking. |
Namely, arm strength. |
Okay....so it takes away from his arm strength on those specific plays which I've already agreed with. He does float it on those plays. The original point was, it's an easy fix. You fix him throwing off his backfoot on those plays, you fix the zip on those balls. The point from the very beginning is that it isn't some huge hurdle. |
I don't think you understand. I'm not saying it CAUSES other issues, I'm saying it POINTS to them. |
I guess you'll have to elaborate because you're right, I don't understand what you're saying. |
Pointing to a lack of arm strength. |
So why not just say he has a lack of arm strength?  I mean, I obviously agree, it's Bark's one main deficiency.
All I'm saying is that outside of that, most of the critiques of his game that I've heard have just been really ticky tacky, the same way people attempted to knock Andrew Luck last year.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | It's really not. It can point to other issues. I had a similar problem with Jimmy Clausen(there was more with Clausen though). |
What other issues are you insinuating it points to then? No point making an empty statement like that without backing it up. I think you're just nitpicking. |
Namely, arm strength. |
Okay....so it takes away from his arm strength on those specific plays which I've already agreed with. He does float it on those plays. The original point was, it's an easy fix. You fix him throwing off his backfoot on those plays, you fix the zip on those balls. The point from the very beginning is that it isn't some huge hurdle. |
I don't think you understand. I'm not saying it CAUSES other issues, I'm saying it POINTS to them. |
I guess you'll have to elaborate because you're right, I don't understand what you're saying. |
Pointing to a lack of arm strength. |
So why not just say he has a lack of arm strength? I mean, I obviously agree, it's Bark's one main deficiency.
All I'm saying is that outside of that, most of the critiques of his game that I've heard have just been really ticky tacky, the same way people attempted to knock Andrew Luck last year. |
Other than his size and mediocre mobility? 
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | Smith is my #2. And yes, Thomas does need development. However, Barkley still has glaring mechanical issues and obvious physical deficiencies that imo will keep him from being the top QB drafted. |
I think it's okay to say that some of you need to cool it on the Thomas hype. It got very out of hand this offseason when several posters made it sound as if he was already a top 5 prospect. |
Get off that high horse SOS. Need I remind you about your "If RGIII is a top pick then so is Keith Price" comment? Talking about out of hand hype...
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush.
| TheVillain112 wrote: | | Get off that high horse SOS. Need I remind you about your "If RGIII is a top pick then so is Keith Price" comment? Talking about out of hand hype... |
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1?
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SaveourSonics
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1? |
No, I don't think he has the athletic upside to go #1 overall. I've never deemed him the #1 prospect in the country either. But, as of right now, he's the best eligible QB prospect on tape. Geno Smith is really the only guy that should be argued. I won't be the slightest bit surprised if Smith is the #1 overall pick.
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yupyup
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1? |
6'2 is not short, and not a weakness. A decent % of the starters in the NFL are 6'2 or shorter and almost all of them are are good-great. His mediocre mobility is also a non-issue, he avoids the pass rush extremely well and has a great pocket presence. I'm not saying he has to go #1 overall (although I believe right now he should), but he's unquestionably the top QB as of day, and I think Smith is 2nd. |
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
TheV, SoS, jrr, when you guys are done with your urination trajectory competition, stop over in the Leon McFadden thread and give me your take on the junior cornerback! And while you are at it, stop in and tell me about Sooner junior RB Damien Williams in his thread. There will be plenty of time to argue about Barkley later on in the season!
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Trent Baalke for 2013 NFL executive of the year. |
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SaveourSonics
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Location: Sleepless in Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
TheV, SoS, jrr, when you guys are done with your urination trajectory competition, stop over in the Leon McFadden thread and give me your take on the junior cornerback! And while you are at it, stop in and tell me about Sooner junior RB Damien Williams in his thread. There will be plenty of time to argue about Barkley later on in the season!
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Wait....you saying you can pee further than me?
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
Part of the game is projecting. You can go wrong sometimes but that's part of the process.
And trying to project doesn't just leave you with Jevan Snead if you're good at what you do.
There's a reason why the picks aren't made a year before the draft, it's a process. With guys like Snead, you see they didn't live up to the projections and adjust accordingly. Part of the process.
| yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1? |
6'2 is not short, and not a weakness. A decent % of the starters in the NFL are 6'2 or shorter and almost all of them are are good-great. His mediocre mobility is also a non-issue, he avoids the pass rush extremely well and has a great pocket presence. I'm not saying he has to go #1 overall (although I believe right now he should), but he's unquestionably the top QB as of day, and I think Smith is 2nd. |
So the fact that of the last 20 QBs to go #1 overall(dating back to Terry Bradshaw in 1970), only 1 was 6'2" or shorter doesn't seem like maybe NFL teams don't agree?
That QB, by the way, was Michael Vick. A QB with freakish athleticism and a cannon for an arm.
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yupyup
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
Part of the game is projecting. You can go wrong sometimes but that's part of the process.
And trying to project doesn't just leave you with Jevan Snead if you're good at what you do.
There's a reason why the picks aren't made a year before the draft, it's a process. With guys like Snead, you see they didn't live up to the projections and adjust accordingly. Part of the process.
| yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1? |
6'2 is not short, and not a weakness. A decent % of the starters in the NFL are 6'2 or shorter and almost all of them are are good-great. His mediocre mobility is also a non-issue, he avoids the pass rush extremely well and has a great pocket presence. I'm not saying he has to go #1 overall (although I believe right now he should), but he's unquestionably the top QB as of day, and I think Smith is 2nd. |
So the fact that of the last 20 QBs to go #1 overall(dating back to Terry Bradshaw in 1970), only 1 was 6'2" or shorter doesn't seem like maybe NFL teams don't agree?
That QB, by the way, was Michael Vick. A QB with freakish athleticism and a cannon for an arm. |
Nope. There is no evidence or data suggesting 6'2 is short by any means and no QB has ever been hindered by that height. I don't see how you could even suggest that's a weakness. Is it better then 6'4? No, but I've never seen a prospect fall for being 6'2 and that's because there is no reason for it.
Barkley is a very good QB prospect and whether you want to admit it or not, he's still better then everyone else right now. He hasn't been in any of the past 20 drafts, so that's irrelevant. He is his own player, and a damn good one at that. The only true legitimate weakness he has is lack of arm strength. |
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Bo_Spice
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'd take a shot on Geno Smith in the late first or early second round. I don't think he's as prepared for the NFL as guys like Barkley, Wilson, Murray, etc. Just due to the fact he comes out of an offense that doesn't prepare quarterbacks for success at the next level.
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Bo_Spice
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
Part of the game is projecting. You can go wrong sometimes but that's part of the process.
And trying to project doesn't just leave you with Jevan Snead if you're good at what you do.
There's a reason why the picks aren't made a year before the draft, it's a process. With guys like Snead, you see they didn't live up to the projections and adjust accordingly. Part of the process.
| yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | Other than his size and mediocre mobility?
I'm just saying, Barkley isn't the type of player you see go #1 overall. |
I'm not concerned with his size and I don't require my QBs to have elite mobility as long as they have good footwork in the pocket and can subtly avoid the rush. |
Serious talk, do you think a 6'2" QB with average arm strength and mediocre mobility will go #1? |
6'2 is not short, and not a weakness. A decent % of the starters in the NFL are 6'2 or shorter and almost all of them are are good-great. His mediocre mobility is also a non-issue, he avoids the pass rush extremely well and has a great pocket presence. I'm not saying he has to go #1 overall (although I believe right now he should), but he's unquestionably the top QB as of day, and I think Smith is 2nd. |
So the fact that of the last 20 QBs to go #1 overall(dating back to Terry Bradshaw in 1970), only 1 was 6'2" or shorter doesn't seem like maybe NFL teams don't agree?
That QB, by the way, was Michael Vick. A QB with freakish athleticism and a cannon for an arm. |
Nope. There is no evidence or data suggesting 6'2 is short by any means and no QB has ever been hindered by that height. I don't see how you could even suggest that's a weakness. Is it better then 6'4? No, but I've never seen a prospect fall for being 6'2 and that's because there is no reason for it.
Barkley is a very good QB prospect and whether you want to admit it or not, he's still better then everyone else right now. He hasn't been in any of the past 20 drafts, so that's irrelevant. He is his own player, and a damn good one at that. The only true legitimate weakness he has is lack of arm strength. |
Barkley doesn't have a cannon, but it's not like he had a noode arm either. He has great footwork and excellent touch on his throws. Arm strength is the most overrated trait when evaluating a young quarterback, Barkley's arm is strong enough to make all of the NFL throws which he has proven.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | Another thing I wanted to add to those that do rankings. Personally, I try not to project what I think a QB will do the following season but rather what he has shown to the current day.
Trying to project what someone will do only leaves you with Jevan Sneads. |
TheV, SoS, jrr, when you guys are done with your urination trajectory competition, stop over in the Leon McFadden thread and give me your take on the junior cornerback! And while you are at it, stop in and tell me about Sooner junior RB Damien Williams in his thread. There will be plenty of time to argue about Barkley later on in the season!
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I would but I've been slacking on my college football watching as of late. This is what happens when NFL game rewind offers coaches film.
As for the peeing competition, jrry and SOS said they wanted to be alone for that one. So...
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