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Jeff Ireland On the Hot Seat
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Deadeye


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.
Not sure if your suggesting that Ted Thompson is a turd or not. But for anyone who thinks he was/is they need to go catch a clue. He was doing his job and he did it right. I wish we had hired him when we had the chance.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.
Not sure if your suggesting that Ted Thompson is a turd or not. [b]But for anyone who thinks he was/is they need to go catch a clue. He was doing his job and he did it right. I wish we had hired him when we had the chance[/b].


I agree. I don't see Thompson as a genius by any means, but I do see him as a shrewd personnel man that knows how to get the personnel he wants.....in a place that isn't a desireable location for most players, nor most coaches I would imagine.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
SUG wrote:
My biggest beef with Ireland 2.5 - yrs ago was was the realization that they had bought there own
B.S. regarding Henne & found themselves with NO plan B or the ability identify & develop a Plan B.
The reason he kept speaking of "a vision for a player" was due to his own lack of vision for the most important player.

That moment of enlightenment turned to horror when I noticed his trend to did everything possible (beyond Parcells tenure) to
fix the QB problem via every other position on the Off.
(including keeping his OLine coach whom never was an Off Coord & was elevated to HC)

That moment of Horror turned to a state of helpless dementia & detachment when I researched that in
20 yrs Ireland had never drafted a 1st rnd QB & that Carl Peterson was circling the lifeboats.

My hopes for this team lie squarely on Joe Phillbin AND his ability to name his own GM should the opportunity require it.

sug


I vividly remember your disdain for Ireland going back for some time.....and that it seemed to be QB driven. I remember you catching a beating from posters for your views, and if no one else tells you....I will....Dude you were correct.


Thank you.

I don't believe the man is a complete idiot.
He & Parcells are good typically good at identifying guys that play "in the box".
I've stated that they are good for like the first 2 yrs of "trench building" but outside of "the box" at skilled
positions & QB they are archaic minded.

That's why I don't want C. Peterson around either.
And hey, don't take my word for it, Wikki up C. Petersons draft pks the last 20 yrs & you will
see his "Paduan" in J. Ireland. (mirror image) Shocked

If we are going to make a change & Ireland gets fired cause we lost 10 games .... and we will ... for the
love of GOD let Philbin pick whom he wants

sug
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phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
phinmun wrote:
Is it a coincidence that this team has provided us with an example of each of these steps? I don't think so. So far, Jeff Ireland has done an A+ job in completing the initial steps of a rebuild.

Nice post phinum. I don't disagree with anything you've said except what's bolded.

I like the fact that we've committed to rebuilding. But as has been mentioned by others, the normal rebuild method is a top down approach in which a GM selects the head coach and they both go forward with the GM holding ultimate power. That's what I have always wanted for Miami.

Here we have Ireland as a hold over from the BP regime, and this is a source of trouble IMO. Our idiot owner is going to fire Ireland based on the team's poor level of play this season. That's moronic for the following reasons:

1) Only a complete novice would fail to grasp that the 2012 Dolphins are in an all out rebuild mode. We have a first round QB (that Ross essentially forced the organization to select). We've traded talented players for picks, and we've waived some players who never panned. This team is destined to win 3 or 4 games at most. Yet, despite all the rebuild momentum, Ross is going to fire Ireland for the team stinking this season. He kick starts a rebuild by getting the franchise QB, then decides to fire people over the inevitable bad record. Ross is a gold plated jackass.

2) The main failure of the previous owner (WH) was that he never started from scratch. He'd fire a coach, then hire a replacement. Then he'd fire a GM, then hire a replacement. Then he'd fire the coach he hired, and hire a new replacement. On and on it went. The bumbling fool didn't understand that he was destroying the very franchise built up by JR, Shula, Greise, and Marino. He wasn't smart enough to do what Kraft did, so he sold the team to another clown who's doing the same thing all over again. It's as though ultra wealthy idiots are walking magnets who attract other ultra wealthy idiots to do business with. They repell smart people.

3) Firing Ireland wil lead to one of two bad outcomes. We will either hire another GM to retrofit into the oranization while retaining Philbin and company. Or we will fire the whole crew after one season of rebuilding and developing our new QB.

I would not give Ireland an A+. Certainly there have been moves that I've liked. But the biggest strike against Ireland is the really poor drafting in rounds two through five. When BP was here it was hard to know who to blame for White, Turner, and all the rest. But 2011 and 2012 are all JI's players. Gates is cut, Clay isn't looking so good, Thomas looks like a reach in round 2, Martin is a swinging gate, Kaddu was too raw to make the team, and Egnew can't separate. These whiffs are a BIG DEAL. We traded real talent to get an extra 2nd and 3rd for 2013. We cannot have Ireland whiffing on those as well, especially with us picking in the top 5. Yet if Ross fires Ireland, we could easily be in worse shape.

Ross is 80% of Miami's problems. Ireland doesn't deserve to stay IMO, but Ross' attempt to "fix" the problem will likely make it worse.



Well, I can't say a lot to make you feel better other than those fears aren't manifested yet. Ross could do that and I know you aren't the only person who feels like he's going to put pressure (or be pressured into) letting a few heads roll near season's end.

I hate that but we'll just have to wait and see. The only thing I can hope is that the organization has insulated itself as to keep headlines from dictating their next move. Hopefully Ireland and Philbin have made clear their intentions to Ross so much that he knows firing them will only hurt him as well.

For all the lack of faith in Ross I think he's actually a smart guy. Sure, he looks a little silly and has said some rather fool-hearty things when in front of the microphone but he's made a lot of money in his life and understands I'm sure how good companies work.

I have no doubt that Jeff Ireland will communicate with Ross and Ross will follow the logical conclusion that unless the team utterly collapses it's in his best interest to stick it out over the next couple seasons.

The only thing I fear is the media. The media will ask for Ireland's head and I'm not sure if Ross will be willing to throw up a finger and tell them to back off by not doing anything at all and letting things play out. He could very well cave into the pressure but guys don't get to his position without learning some things.

Ross might be corny but he's not dumb.




As far as Ireland's mid-round drafting goes I'd remind you that it seems to be the mid-round offensive skill positions really that are the issue. He's picked TEs, RBs and WRs in there are all we have to show is...Hartline. Everyone else is fairly generic.

The only defense here is that you guys are a little early in your assessment but I agree that if Daniel Thomas, Lamar Miller, and Egnew haven't shown anything beyond what they have now when we're looking back over the course of the season, I'll be more worried.

Still though, this offense is really built on WRs so we just need to add those pieces. I think Egnew is young, raw and to perfectly honest a little out of his depth. That's his status as a rookie. Some guys flourish right off and some don't. He'll get his chances. Charles Clay might also develop well so right now this mid-round nit-picking is really just that. The most veteran of these guys have 1 year experience so they're still alright in my view.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.
Not sure if your suggesting that Ted Thompson is a turd or not. [b]But for anyone who thinks he was/is they need to go catch a clue. He was doing his job and he did it right. I wish we had hired him when we had the chance[/b].


I agree. I don't see Thompson as a genius by any means, but I do see him as a shrewd personnel man that knows how to get the personnel he wants.....in a place that isn't a desireable location for most players, nor most coaches I would imagine.


The Pack Fans were ticked at the way the situation was handled. He potentiallyhad himself in a tough spot.

Then they go and win the SB and Rodg looks dominant and he looks like a genius with that move and some of his drafts. Bulaga, Matthews, the CB from the U that played so well Sam ???.

He has made hist team a legit contender every year. That was a tough call with Favre. Remember when Jimmy J talked about doing something similar with Dan? The fanbase freaked.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Ted Thompson was the biggest turd going when he handled the Favre/Rodgers situation 'the wrong way'. Now he is the biggest genius in the league? Cmon.
Not sure if your suggesting that Ted Thompson is a turd or not. [b]But for anyone who thinks he was/is they need to go catch a clue. He was doing his job and he did it right. I wish we had hired him when we had the chance[/b].


I agree. I don't see Thompson as a genius by any means, but I do see him as a shrewd personnel man that knows how to get the personnel he wants.....in a place that isn't a desireable location for most players, nor most coaches I would imagine.


The Pack Fans were ticked at the way the situation was handled. He potentiallyhad himself in a tough spot.

Then they go and win the SB and Rodg looks dominant and he looks like a genius with that move and some of his drafts. Bulaga, Matthews, the CB from the U that played so well Sam ???.

He has made hist team a legit contender every year. That was a tough call with Favre. Remember when Jimmy J talked about doing something similar with Dan? The fanbase freaked.



The Green Bay Packers have the best QB in a league that is all about QB performance. With all due respect, the fact Rodgers turned out so well makes a lot of other things look really good. The defense is currently playing terrible and unless Aaron Rodgers plays really well, that offense can look strikingly average. They don't excel at running the ball so it's all on the back of Aaron Rodgers.

It's the same story as with Brady, Brees, Manning, etc. Elite QBs have a way of making everything else look really great.

So long as Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews remains the best QB/LB tandem in the league, I don't doubt Ted Thompson will be looked at as a genius.


Last edited by phinmun on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blagasse67


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/trade-him-fi6rd6e-169565026.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Quote:
If the Packers are as convinced as I am that this is Greg Jennings' final season in Green Bay, Ted Thompson should do all he can to attract fair market value and move him before the Oct. 30 trading deadline.


So if Jeff Ireland pulls this off after sitting patiently and not overpaying for Jones, will he get more respect?
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/trade-him-fi6rd6e-169565026.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Quote:
If the Packers are as convinced as I am that this is Greg Jennings' final season in Green Bay, Ted Thompson should do all he can to attract fair market value and move him before the Oct. 30 trading deadline.


So if Jeff Ireland pulls this off after sitting patiently and not overpaying for Jones, will he get more respect?


Greg Jennings will be 29 in a week's time and will get big money. By the time this team in competing he'll be staring his mid-30s square in the face AND it'll be on us to re-sign the aging veteran to another deal.

I would be shocked if the Dolphins make this move. I don't hesitate to say, no way. This violates a major step in rebuilding that says you shouldn't throw big money at anyone who'll spend their best years on the league's most struggling team.
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Blagasse67


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/trade-him-fi6rd6e-169565026.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Quote:
If the Packers are as convinced as I am that this is Greg Jennings' final season in Green Bay, Ted Thompson should do all he can to attract fair market value and move him before the Oct. 30 trading deadline.


So if Jeff Ireland pulls this off after sitting patiently and not overpaying for Jones, will he get more respect?


Greg Jennings will be 29 in a week's time and will get big money. By the time this team in competing he'll be staring his mid-30s square in the face.

I would be shocked if the Dolphins make this move. I don't hesitate to say, no way.


Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all. Getting the offense into a rhythm is our biggest issue.

If our offense can get a WR that can get open and make plays, it will open up the run game and it will also open up more WRs.

The 29 years old thing is not an issue. Greg Jennings will probably play for another 4 or 5 years. While we have him, you also draft a young WR in the first round to help him out. Than you have that Savy Vet, and a young stud WR. See the Falcons.

Don't tell me the Falcons have that much more talent than we do. As i see it, we are pretty even with them on D. What they have is weapons. That seems to be what is really lacking with us.
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL
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Blagasse67


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL


Laugh all you want. When you realize it only takes a one or two players to turn a team around, you'll get what i'm saying.

This isn't madden dude. You can't have great players at every position. I know you think you have to have Troy Polomalu and Ed Reed at safety, and patrick willis and Ray Lewis at LB but in real life, you need 53 players playing at a high level together.

We need play makers. The corp of our team is there. Our Defense is stout again. We could use another pass rusher. ON offense we need another weapon. Right now we need a WR or TE that can make plays. Two players could turn this team around.

Look at the Falcons. How much more talent do they have than us? They just have TWO wrs and an Old TE. Every thing about the Falcons is even with us except WR and TE.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL


Laugh all you want. When you realize it only takes a one or two players to turn a team around, you'll get what i'm saying.

This isn't madden dude. You can't have great players at every position. I know you think you have to have Troy Polomalu and Ed Reed at safety, and patrick willis and Ray Lewis at LB but in real life, you need 53 players playing at a high level together.

We need play makers. The corp of our team is there. Our Defense is stout again. We could use another pass rusher. ON offense we need another weapon. Right now we need a WR or TE that can make plays. Two players could turn this team around.

Look at the Falcons. How much more talent do they have than us? They just have TWO wrs and an Old TE. Every thing about the Falcons is even with us except WR and TE.


No, you're right. I'm not going to sit here and tell you we need elite pieces at every position. I'm just as frustrated as you when I read that kind of stuff. You ask people what they want and they hand you some rhetoric about 'just wanting greatness.'

The fact is that over the next 2 years, this team will be developing. I don't expect more than 4 or 5 wins this year and I doubt we'll be much more than a .500 club next year, especially if our schedule gets harder which it probably will since this year isn't that bad at all really.

Jennings is the type of player that I think Ted Thompson would be smart to trade away for a high pick which he could then use to replace Jennings. A couple above-average years later, Jennings replacement--whoever he is--has a couple years of experience and is poised to break out as the team makes another Super Bowl run.

Unfortunately, while a Jennings trade makes sense for Green Bay in terms of long-term development and keeping the team elite and while it might be a gamble that a team on the edge of making a run is willing to make (e.g. Mario Manningham going to the 49ers) the Dolphins simply have too many holes at key places--or young players just entering the game--to think they are a piece or two away.

If the Miami Dolphins are a piece or two away, its only away from being mediocre just as they were with Brandon Marshall. This team won't be elite until young talent like Ryan Tannehill, Charles Clay, Mike Pouncey, Jonathan Martin, Lamar Miller and Olivier Vernon are all experienced and proven players with a couple years under their belt.

That will take at least a couple years. In that time we'll also need to add more young talent to the O-line and possibly to the defense as well.

The key to rebuilding the right way is to avoid the urge to add experience. The whole process is about getting younger. A young team can grow together and then maintain a stranglehold on its division for a decade.

Now, what division in football has been dominated for a decade by 1 team? Hmmm....I know one! Smile
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL


Look at the Falcons. How much more talent do they have than us? They just have TWO wrs and an Old TE. Every thing about the Falcons is even with us except WR and TE.


You're just joking around, right?
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL


Look at the Falcons. How much more talent do they have than us? They just have TWO wrs and an Old TE. Every thing about the Falcons is even with us except WR and TE.


You're just joking around, right?


Oh and there is always that pesky O-line, QB, and DB's thing to think about too
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Judson49


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Are you sure about that? The way the defense looked against an elite offense, i'd say we aren't far at all.


LOL


Look at the Falcons. How much more talent do they have than us? They just have TWO wrs and an Old TE. Every thing about the Falcons is even with us except WR and TE.


You're just joking around, right?


Oh and there is always that pesky O-line, QB, and DB's thing to think about too


Not to mention that Blagasse himself started this thread with the assertion that it should surprise no-one that Ireland is on the hot seat and how we need to find good talent evaluators. Even suggesting that he has predicted that we're bottom feeders in the league this year and next.

Couple of pages later and Ireland has done a good job and we're one or two players away!!
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