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Week 3: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2991
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
LivingLegendWFC wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i give cp props this is the best game he has ever played as a raider.


Nah the Thursday night game against the Chargers was better, but it was still a hell of a game for Palmer.


NCOUGH only like TDs on a stat line. So yes, based on that, it was his best game.


He didn't have his most statistical game but to me this was his best one. He threw a pick and the defense had more holes than Swiss cheese, but he did what you expect a great QB to do, he came back and HE won the game.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Has Tyvon Branch been bad? Whenever I notice him, he's flying to the ball and making a ton of tackles around the LOS. Maybe I need to pay more attention to him in coverage, but I thought he's been doing a phenomenal job against the run so far this season.


It seems that you have selective memory. I have seen him make some plays. The way you describe it makes it seem more glorified but I've seen missed tackles, average tackles, nothing crazy, but I've also seen a lot of containment lost and just bad angles going at the ball carrier. His coverage has slipped a little also, as S&B pointed out and that was his strongest skill. I expected him to really step up now that Al was gone and was hoping that was what was holding him back. So far, he's not proving me right.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
I'd say only Shaughnessy and Wheeler have been good on D so far.


I must agree but add on McClain or maybe just in comparison to how he's played prior. I think he's done quite well and will improve as the season continues. But yeah, you're good for the most part (Burris hasn't been terrible for a rookie either).

I am utterly shocked at Wheeler though. I didn't think he'd play this well. I like what I'm seeing thus far and am excited about his future.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
I'd say only Shaughnessy and Wheeler have been good on D so far.


I must agree but add on McClain or maybe just in comparison to how he's played prior. I think he's done quite well and will improve as the season continues. But yeah, you're good for the most part (Burris hasn't been terrible for a rookie either).

I am utterly shocked at Wheeler though. I didn't think he'd play this well. I like what I'm seeing thus far and am excited about his future.


I was excited about that pick up. Didn't say much about it though since I didn't think he'd contribute as much as he is. Especially so soon. He's all over the place. Run D, Pass D (not the best but decent), Blitzing. I like the predator look on our defense now too.
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Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Has Tyvon Branch been bad? Whenever I notice him, he's flying to the ball and making a ton of tackles around the LOS. Maybe I need to pay more attention to him in coverage, but I thought he's been doing a phenomenal job against the run so far this season.


It seems that you have selective memory. I have seen him make some plays. The way you describe it makes it seem more glorified but I've seen missed tackles, average tackles, nothing crazy, but I've also seen a lot of containment lost and just bad angles going at the ball carrier. His coverage has slipped a little also, as S&B pointed out and that was his strongest skill. I expected him to really step up now that Al was gone and was hoping that was what was holding him back. So far, he's not proving me right.


How many tackles could he have missed yesterday against the run? The Steelers longest run was for 7 yards. He's been great at attacking the LOS and making tackles on running backs. Aside from that Reggie Bush TD down the sideline, I can't remember him taking a bad angle on a RB. Maybe I'm missing something? I'll admit agains the pass I haven't been paying much attention to him, but against the run, I can't help but notice how good of a job he does of stopping RB's before they barely pass the LOS.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
As far as the pass defense its exactly what I said would happen. We should not have played off so much. Most of the times we played tight coverage we made a stop.

Lee made improvements and Huff didnt play bad. I think he just needs to press more when in coverage. But definatley a weakness. Very disappointed in our TE coverage as well. Wonder why Mitchell hasnt got any time covering the TE. Branch just isnt cutting it thus far in any of the games.


+1

I'm guessing they were more worried about Wallace and Brown getting behind us- too bad they tore it up in the short and intermediate field. There were a few plays that made me furious on 3rd down when we played so far off and Ben would just hit Brown or Wallace the second he snapped the ball and they got a 1st down. Our pass coverage definitely didnt play well, but we also have to expect it given who our starting CBs were and will be for a few more weeks.
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oak42069


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Has Tyvon Branch been bad? Whenever I notice him, he's flying to the ball and making a ton of tackles around the LOS. Maybe I need to pay more attention to him in coverage, but I thought he's been doing a phenomenal job against the run so far this season.


his pass coverage has been a weakness, but really when hasnt it.

vs the run yea he has been stout for the most part. took a horrific angle on the big run vs bush in miami but aside from a play or 2 he's been in the mix against the run
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

- Tyvon Branch - I know I lit a fire under you guys w/ all my talks about him over the offseason but has anyone been paying attention?? Has anyone noticed how very average he is? I put him in the bad b/c dude REALLY needs to go to Geometry class. He takes the worst angles I've seen. I can't specifically remember what plays they were but he infuriated me.


He's definitely not playing well so far.

I'd say only Shaughnessy and Wheeler have been good on D so far.


Jtagg has a point. Tyvon regressed big time in coverage this year. Quite disappointed in his play as well as Huff's. Shaggy and Wheeler have been stepping up though. Houston has been solid vs the run but not that good at pass rushing. McClain, Bryant and Burris have shown flashes too. Need more consistent playmakers as BP has mentioned though.


Houston, Bryant, Shaugnessy, Wheeler are good pieces to build around. Like what I see in Burris. McClain is a mixed bag right now for me. Getting better, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Oh JPP, what could have been.....

Branch is solid in tackling and being around the ball. Coverage is whack right now. Huff is just unimpressive. Guy is what he is. I'm ready to move on from him and try to find a playmaking type FS for this D.

Really wish Spencer and Bartell had stayed healthy. The CB situation is just a nightmare right now.
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oak42069


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
I'd say only Shaughnessy and Wheeler have been good on D so far.


I must agree but add on McClain or maybe just in comparison to how he's played prior. I think he's done quite well and will improve as the season continues. But yeah, you're good for the most part (Burris hasn't been terrible for a rookie either).

I am utterly shocked at Wheeler though. I didn't think he'd play this well. I like what I'm seeing thus far and am excited about his future.


prior to the season there were talks on wheeler being a force defensively much like dmac on the offense. guy has been all over the field, beasting!

thus far what a great free agent pick up
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Has Tyvon Branch been bad? Whenever I notice him, he's flying to the ball and making a ton of tackles around the LOS. Maybe I need to pay more attention to him in coverage, but I thought he's been doing a phenomenal job against the run so far this season.


It seems that you have selective memory. I have seen him make some plays. The way you describe it makes it seem more glorified but I've seen missed tackles, average tackles, nothing crazy, but I've also seen a lot of containment lost and just bad angles going at the ball carrier. His coverage has slipped a little also, as S&B pointed out and that was his strongest skill. I expected him to really step up now that Al was gone and was hoping that was what was holding him back. So far, he's not proving me right.


How many tackles could he have missed yesterday against the run? The Steelers longest run was for 7 yards. He's been great at attacking the LOS and making tackles on running backs. Aside from that Reggie Bush TD down the sideline, I can't remember him taking a bad angle on a RB. Maybe I'm missing something? I'll admit agains the pass I haven't been paying much attention to him, but against the run, I can't help but notice how good of a job he does of stopping RB's before they barely pass the LOS.


Yesterday isn't the only game though. If I remember correctly, he had Ben in his cross hairs coming in for some pressure but a simple side-step negated it for an easy completion. Branch just seems to play so uncontrolled. If he had more discipline, I think he'd be better. The Bush TD is another example as you noted. I obviously watch him a little more as it seems. He's a guy I'm always looking for on the field. If I had a better memory, I could name off other plays in this young season where he was out of position or he put himself that way. I'm hoping for improvement but as of now, he's just an average safety in the league... making almost 7 mil a year. Here's to hoping he improves.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
I'd say only Shaughnessy and Wheeler have been good on D so far.


I must agree but add on McClain or maybe just in comparison to how he's played prior. I think he's done quite well and will improve as the season continues. But yeah, you're good for the most part (Burris hasn't been terrible for a rookie either).

I am utterly shocked at Wheeler though. I didn't think he'd play this well. I like what I'm seeing thus far and am excited about his future.


I was excited about that pick up. Didn't say much about it though since I didn't think he'd contribute as much as he is. Especially so soon. He's all over the place. Run D, Pass D (not the best but decent), Blitzing. I like the predator look on our defense now too.


You obviously seemed to be more exposed than I was. I thought he would just be another role player but my unfamiliarity is coming out on this one. If our D can put it all together, I think he'll improve even more. Pretty excited about him. Cheers on getting the knowledge and knowing about him!! Love how he's working out thus far.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe im reading too much into it, but does it surprise anyone that we had our best rushing day once Barnes was not in the game?

Weak link in the chain?
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Has Tyvon Branch been bad? Whenever I notice him, he's flying to the ball and making a ton of tackles around the LOS. Maybe I need to pay more attention to him in coverage, but I thought he's been doing a phenomenal job against the run so far this season.


It seems that you have selective memory. I have seen him make some plays. The way you describe it makes it seem more glorified but I've seen missed tackles, average tackles, nothing crazy, but I've also seen a lot of containment lost and just bad angles going at the ball carrier. His coverage has slipped a little also, as S&B pointed out and that was his strongest skill. I expected him to really step up now that Al was gone and was hoping that was what was holding him back. So far, he's not proving me right.


How many tackles could he have missed yesterday against the run? The Steelers longest run was for 7 yards. He's been great at attacking the LOS and making tackles on running backs. Aside from that Reggie Bush TD down the sideline, I can't remember him taking a bad angle on a RB. Maybe I'm missing something? I'll admit agains the pass I haven't been paying much attention to him, but against the run, I can't help but notice how good of a job he does of stopping RB's before they barely pass the LOS.


Yesterday isn't the only game though. If I remember correctly, he had Ben in his cross hairs coming in for some pressure but a simple side-step negated it for an easy completion. Branch just seems to play so uncontrolled. If he had more discipline, I think he'd be better. The Bush TD is another example as you noted. I obviously watch him a little more as it seems. He's a guy I'm always looking for on the field. If I had a better memory, I could name off other plays in this young season where he was out of position or he put himself that way. I'm hoping for improvement but as of now, he's just an average safety in the league... making almost 7 mil a year. Here's to hoping he improves.


If you're watching him so intently, how is it that you can't name one run play aside from the one I mentioned? I can count on one hand the number of safeties in the league that diagnose and attack the run as well as he does. Calling him average after a few below average games in coverage, after he was great at it last season, is being way too critical but whatever. I can say with an unbiased judgement that he's definitely a top 10 SS, and should be top 5 if he can bounce back in coverage.


Last edited by Darkness on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LivingLegendWFC wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i give cp props this is the best game he has ever played as a raider.


Nah the Thursday night game against the Chargers was better, but it was still a hell of a game for Palmer.


i dunno cp was deadly out there today and the sd game had bush getting major yards. even tho dmac busted loose on that 64 yr run he was kinda quiet after that. cp owned the game and was matching td for td with big ben who had a crazy game. cp kept his composure made smart plays and capitalized off the t.o.'s. and kept us in the game. we got the w. cant ask for more. im very satisfied. Very Happy
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:

If you're watching him so intently, how is it that you can't name one run play aside from the one I mentioned? I can count on one hand the number of safeties in the league that diagnose and attack the run as well as he does. Calling him average after a few below average games in coverage, after he was great at it last season, is being way too critical but whatever. I can say with an unbiased judgement that he's definitely a top 10 SS, and should be top 5 if he can bounce back in coverage.


B/c, honestly, how many times, in the heat of the game can you remember every single play? I can't. Maybe that's my fault, maybe not but I remember saying his angles were terrible on a handful of plays. I would hardly call him "great" last year also but we're not going back into that and I'm done w/ the convo. Just pay attention and you'll see it.
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