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Week 4: Carolina Panthers (1-2) @ Atlanta Falcons (3-0)
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 13234
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3428fanatic wrote:
How many times did the defense stop them when we needed them to? They stopped them with 2 minutes left in the game. Were they perfect? Heck no but they played a gane that should have been a win. Turner got more yards then he should and white caught that terrible ball at the end but for the mist part we stopped their biggest weapons.

if someone said before the game we get 7 sacks and 1 int and we have the ball with under 2 minutes I would have said we win. The defense has to get better also but I truely believe they did enough to win that game.


The only reason they did enough initially was because we scored 4 touchdowns. Otherwise Atlanta still had 27 points on the board. That is not good. Then they allowed an EASY game winning drive. Falcons finished with 30.

For the billionth time, I say that Newton deserves part of the blame. But I don't see what is difficult about admitting that the defense screwed the pooch, not only throughout the game but at the end of it. There is no reason Atlanta should have gotten into field position considering the circumstances. I think everyone's defensive expectations are just low. Did they play really well at times? Sure, yeah. Got some sacks. Otherwise Ryan still shredded our pass defense, Turner still ran rampant on our run defense, and the final drive was a prime example of everything wrong with the defense as a whole. Soft coverage, bad linebackers, bad tackling, and bad safeties.

Newton just went 15 for 24, 215 passing yards, 2 passing touchdowns, 86 rushing yards, 1 rushing touchdown against a Mike Nolan coached defense. That is impressive as hell. One bad miscue and somehow Newton is at complete fault for this loss. Again I'm willing to tell you that miscue played a part in the loss. We could have had the first down. Didn't end up getting it. But I haven't yet seen you admit that the defense played a big part in us losing as well. Ryan chewed us up with 369 passing yards and 3 touchdowns. Turner, who to this point had sucked, embarrassed us with 103 rushing yards on 7.9 YPC and somehow had a 60 yard receiving touchdown. White made Nakamura and our LBs look silly.

I mean, like I said, if the defense doing its job is limiting the opposition to 27, 30 points, then alright. That is fair I guess. But if you want to admit that it isn't, then I think it is fair to say that they played an even bigger part in the loss than Newton's fumble did, which was recovered by our team anyway.

And at the end of the day, I think there is a bigger thing in this we're forgetting. It was a fumble. Had nothing to do with his ability as a runner (because this is the only time outside of once last year I remember him fumbling while he was runner) or as a quarterback. It seems to me this is likely more of a flukey play than it somehow being related to his ability to close games out. He dove for the first without putting two hands on it (and the ball wasn't even knocked out by a defender I believe). It happens. Just at a bad time. It led to the first down being taken away. But there is little excuse for our defense to have allowed what they did on that final possession. So I just can't see why you nor CarolinaRoar can't admit that the defense played a role in our loss. It isn't me saying Cam's fumble didn't play a part. It did and it hurt us. But the defense, contrary to this post:

Quote:
The defense did their job today


Did not do its job unless being drug by Turner all day long and allowing Ryan to work our secondary is doing its job. The defense looked nice in spurts, better than it did against NYG and maybe even New Orleans. But that really isn't much of an accomplishment. They still have a ton of issues. We can't tackle and we can't cover and those played a huge role in today's game.

I also think it is foolish that someone would say (you didn't say this but someone in this thread did) "Cam's record doesn't look good." As if Cam was the sole reason our team was 6-10 in '11 and sole reason we lost today. Football is still a team effort and I assure you there aren't any second year QBs who will win many games or make many good decisions when the defense is allowing 28 PPG. Unlike A. Smith, Griffin, Dalton, etc., Newton doesn't have the feeling that he can take a checkdown on 3rd and long and trust he has a defense to fall back on. Not to take away from those guys, they have played well, but Cam has a bottom 5 ranked defense (and I could be generous in just saying bottom 5 and not bottom 2). He's going to feel pressured to force throws at times. That isn't me saying it is OK. Again I reiterate. Regardless of how the defense played last week, Newton looked poor. Bad footwork and bad decisions. But the expectations some have for him, in the media and on this forum, are more than I've seen for any second year QB. It's fine to expect him, long term, to be that elite quarterback. But he's a 23 year old second year QB. He's still learning. He's going to make mistakes, especially when his defense is the suck and leads him to believing he's got to do more than he would have to if he was playing with one of the aforementioned QBs defense.
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3428fanatic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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Location: north carolina
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toughguy77 wrote:
3428fanatic wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
How many points do you guys think Carolina should have to score each week to win? I mean, are your defensive standards that low and your offensive standards that high?

SF could have scored 14 points and won. New England only needed 29. Minnesota 20. Baltimore 23. STL 19.

So just how many points should Carolina have to score every week, according to you, if the defense doing their job leads to 30 points, 27 if we're excluding the field goal? Because God Bless us the week our defense doesn't do its job.


If cam doesnt give the ball back we win that game and atlanta doesnt put up 30 something points.

Our secondary needs a ton of work. Our line is playing good and LBs are good. Our defense does need work. I admit that but lets stop acting like cam is the best qb ever. To be honest his record sucks. He makes a ton of mistakes and he needs to grow up. He can be one of the best ever but its fair to say he has cost us some games.


TB- Martin 95yds
NO- Thomas 110yds (9 carries)
NYG-Brown 113yds (who???)
ATL- Turner 103 yds
You say our Dline and LBs are playing good? This D IMO is no where close to being


By no means am I saying our defense is world beaters.


good, don't get me wrong we have flashes but that is all

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3428fanatic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iknowcool.....guess its just a difference in opinions. Ive admitted the defense has to get better. We all know that. The falcons have been on fire coming into this game. I truely dont think the defense played bad. They made mistakes for sure.

I know you will take this the wrong way. Im NOT saying he should be at brady or mannings level yet. But I dont see the great qbs in the nfl fumbling the ball with under 2 minutes on 3 and 2 to end a game. I know its a mistake but look at the giants game. Look at the tampa game. Cam hasnt been that good this year. Today was his best game and he still made a terrible play at the end.

Im rooting for the kid. Hope he becomes great. Just pointing out stuff I see.
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james.mcmurry13


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For 80% of the game, the defense performed at (or, mostly above) where it needed to. But the 20% gave the Falcons what they needed to win.

The defensive line played very well, a few lapses at DT. Linebackers were mostly good, except the Turner rec TD. With that play I have no idea what we were doing, it was nickel, 2 LB on the field, and one of them was Jason Phillips Confused

The secondary was the issue today. Gamble was great as always, but unfortunately, nobody else followed suit. Nakamura can't make a play on the ball to save his life. He literally stood still on his interception, didn't move at all post snap, just a missed read/bad throw by Ryan. On White's first TD, he turned himself around horribly, and lost 2 steps on White between the 10 and the end zone. On the first play of the last drive, he should have batted the pass down, but instead he fell backwards and lost his position, yet again. Countless other plays saw Nakamura failing to do his job in coverage.

Norman and Munnerlyn were fine for most of the game, but the last drive they fell apart. If Munnerlyn timed the hit properly, Atlanta would've been forced into a 53 yard field goal right then, but he hit early, and the PI killed us. Norman continued the failure, allowing checkdowns out of bounds 2 straight plays, both were around 8 yards if I remember. No reason to not be up further defending the sideline. I don't know if it was him, someone else, or just a bad playcall, but you don't give a 15 yard cushion on the sideline when they're at the edge of FG range.


That about covers the D, but the offense came up just short in several situations as well. If Newton snapped the ball before the challenge, thats probably another 3 points for us, but, more importantly, if he hadn't fumbled, he would've had the first down, and the game.


We still have issues, but hopefully this game dispels the "overrated" crowd. We came into the season as a team set to win around 7 games, and thats about the level we've shown in 3 of our 4 games.
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Moody


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they start to tackle better they'll improve dramatically. It's just that easy. Oh, and stop over pursuing.

That goes mainly for the LBs and secondary. I think the defensive line is coming along nicely. We need more of that Charles Johnson and Alexander is exciting. Improve the run support and let these guys go to work against QBs in third and long.
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CarolinaRoar


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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Location: NJ
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And blam! http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Cam-Newton-Postgame/213800d2-98d8-42fd-9d9b-c8e668aba671
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cpanthers178990


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can all agree there is plenty of blame to go around.
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rjkilla


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Haruki_Nakamura_Postgame/2af2e6c7-a925-457d-b043-a31f85e1c53a

yes, games come down to about 5 plays that decide it and you were involved negatively in 3 of them
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
I think we can all agree there is plenty of blame to go around.
Yup. Team sport - team blame. Defense gave up the FG. But Cam fumbled. But the D allowed 27 points before that. But the offense stalled and only got 28. Etc. the entire team lost. Specific plays can be pointed out as things to learn from. But you win as a team and you lose as a team. Everybody could have done something else to secure a win long before the last FG drive.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3428fanatic wrote:
Iknowcool.....guess its just a difference in opinions. Ive admitted the defense has to get better. We all know that. The falcons have been on fire coming into this game. I truely dont think the defense played bad. They made mistakes for sure.

I know you will take this the wrong way. Im NOT saying he should be at brady or mannings level yet. But I dont see the great qbs in the nfl fumbling the ball with under 2 minutes on 3 and 2 to end a game. I know its a mistake but look at the giants game. Look at the tampa game. Cam hasnt been that good this year. Today was his best game and he still made a terrible play at the end.

Im rooting for the kid. Hope he becomes great. Just pointing out stuff I see.


Rivers did just last year. Brady threw a critical interception last year vs Buffalo to help them win the game. We all know about both Manning's. It happens. It wasn't even an interception for Cam. It was a fumble, something that 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't expect out of him while he was running. Just a fluke thing. I don't think it is indicative at all of how good he has been or hasn't as a quarterback this year.

I'm not going to say he hasn't struggled. He has at times this year. But this is a 23 year old, second year quarterback. To this point this season, he has a 63.2 CMP%, 1054 passing yards, 4 passing touchdowns, 9.92 Y/A (leads the league by a good amount), 167 rushing yards, 3 rushing TDs, and a 98.8 QBR. He's doing something right. Bad decision making has been the death of him but he's a young quarterback still learning the game - which is something people still seem to be forgetting. The fumble sucked. But he's going to make mistakes. It comes with territory. It's unfair to compare him to those great QBs I'm sure you are talking about because those guys are experienced and trust me, those guys all went through their rough periods to get where they are today. And some of those guys still do make mistakes from time to time.

I agree with fretgod99 and cpanthers178990. The blame goes all around. Newton shouldn't have fumbled. Defense cannot tackle or cover. My only issue was the fact it seemed as if the blame was solely going on Cam.
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CarolinaFAN


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hannibal Barca wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
Hannibal Barca wrote:
boondock wrote:
CarolinaFAN wrote:
CHUD, you and your vanilla playcalling to run down the clock sucks!!!!!


What play calls would you have changed?

When you run out the clock, you put it on the ground; that's what we did.


And that's why you lost. That vanilla, "run the clock" out nonsense doesn't work. Especially when you're dependent upon a porous secondary to keep Matt Ryan from driving down the field the other way.


And had we passed and thrown an incompletion?

We ran the ball and it worked. Newton made a mistake fumbling. Chud's playcalling had nothing to do with it as his playcalling led to 2 first downs, 1 of which was brought back.


Didn't have to throw the ball. Cam was averaging just shy of 10 yards per carry. Go for the first down and win the game or play scared and lose. Rivera made his choice and the outcome of the game is a direct result of his incompetence.


When the panthers had the ball at the 4 minute mark in the fourth. What did they do..... ran the ball three times with the wildcat option first and punted..... why????? keep doing what you do..... zone read, throw the ball, just score somehow a FG would suffice. a good team will either score or run the clock out. obviously the panthers aren't a good team right now. well they were lucky enough to get the ball back at the 2:30 mark and lost the game with the fumble. knowing what happened, why not go on the 4th and 1.

Chud is tooooo vanilla with the clock running down. He did it in the NO game and was lucky that the defense actually held NO in check. But you can't rely on this defense under 2 minutes. CJ and crew had to be running on fumes at the end there.....
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tbrown2699


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolinaFAN wrote:
Hannibal Barca wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
Hannibal Barca wrote:
boondock wrote:
CarolinaFAN wrote:
CHUD, you and your vanilla playcalling to run down the clock sucks!!!!!


What play calls would you have changed?

When you run out the clock, you put it on the ground; that's what we did.


And that's why you lost. That vanilla, "run the clock" out nonsense doesn't work. Especially when you're dependent upon a porous secondary to keep Matt Ryan from driving down the field the other way.


And had we passed and thrown an incompletion?

We ran the ball and it worked. Newton made a mistake fumbling. Chud's playcalling had nothing to do with it as his playcalling led to 2 first downs, 1 of which was brought back.


Didn't have to throw the ball. Cam was averaging just shy of 10 yards per carry. Go for the first down and win the game or play scared and lose. Rivera made his choice and the outcome of the game is a direct result of his incompetence.


When the panthers had the ball at the 4 minute mark in the fourth. What did they do..... ran the ball three times with the wildcat option first and punted..... why????? keep doing what you do..... zone read, throw the ball, just score somehow a FG would suffice. a good team will either score or run the clock out. obviously the panthers aren't a good team right now. well they were lucky enough to get the ball back at the 2:30 mark and lost the game with the fumble. knowing what happened, why not go on the 4th and 1.

Chud is tooooo vanilla with the clock running down. He did it in the NO game and was lucky that the defense actually held NO in check. But you can't rely on this defense under 2 minutes. CJ and crew had to be running on fumes at the end there.....

Last week GB had the ball and the opportunity to run out the clock and they failed to pick up a first, I guess they should have thrown a pass. But wait, a few weeks back NE had a chance to win against Baltimore by running the ball but they chose to pass. Consequently they failed to convert a first and Baltimore won the game. Chud called the correct plays in the final two minutes but the offense failed to convert (albeit a fumble). I love how people "arm chair QB" in this forum. Bottom line... the defense sucked with awesome stats and Cam was awesome with a sucky stat at the end of the game. And that is how we lose games... At least this one, anyway...
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boondock


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of a few mishaps, offense did what they had to do.

Defense on the other hand is still the liability on this team. The team should be able to score 28 points and win. Heck, the team should be able to score 21 points and win.
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hudson3010


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huge loss, i mean HUGE

that defined our season IMO. we are stuck in 1-3 with a brutal schedule and already lost to 2 division rivals. had we won atlanta yesterday, we would be close to them for the division title and we would have a lot more confidence going on to the next games.

why not go for it on 4th down? we were averaging over 5 yards per carry, I could not believe we punted

our coaches suck, thats the main reason we are losing games

rivera and his crew have to go, I dont care if hes been here for only a short period, admit you made a mistake and move on, rivera sucks and its highly unlikely hes going to take us to the SB

our defense suck too, we need to work on this

if we can get decent coaching and defense, watch out for us next year, SB contenders. if not, then we are going to continue to be a 8-8 team at best

cam newton is the real deal. I dont care if hes not the type quarterback we are used to see, I love his celebrations and atitude overall, he was right when he said this team accepts losing. everybody just hate on him no matter how great he plays. I do believe in 3 years hes going to be the unquestionable best qb in the nfl. fix coaching and defense and we are going to be the team to beat for a decade.
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johnydtarheel


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did Atlanta get that extra timeout when they didnt have any. They only had 10 players on field and got to fix it. Old refs not up to speed yet.
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