Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

NFL, NFLRA reach agreement, To get real refs this weekend
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 21236
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesfreak74 wrote:
It's a shame it took this much bad PR for the league to actually start negiotating (sp).

Not expecting these refs to be perfect because they will miss calls, but as long as they can spot the ball correctly, not let players influence calls so much I'll be happy.


Well, you're SOL there. Marquee players will go back to being able to just give the ref a look and get a call. Receivers will still complain well over 80% of the time they don't make the catch that they were interfered with, and they'll still likely draw those flags on account of it.

And your first sentence is patently false. Negotiations were and have been taking place for quite some time. Movement hadn't been made in a while, but the two groups had been at the bargaining table as recently as a week ago tomorrow. You'd be better off going off facts if you're going to make such brash statements.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 29735
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
LikesHAM wrote:
Yay the return of ticky tack pass interference calls and phantom roughing the passer calls for the leagues marketable QBs.


Yep gone is the balanced offenses we've had the pleasure of seeing the past few weeks. Back to the 50 passes and 15 runs a game. Rolling Eyes


ya i liked it a lot better when the refs were completely inconsistent and just randomly threw flags.


Yeah because that didn't happen with the regular referees
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 21236
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also... please note that per forum rules simply posting an img file (and that includes GIFs) and nothing else does not constitute appropriate posting. it's considered garbage posting; we expect you to contribute to the conversation at hand when you post, those images don't do that.

From here on out anyone continuing to violate this rule will receive a formal warning.

_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1BackInBlackFan


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 6661
Location: Because it's the Cup, PA (get well Mal)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better late than never. However, it's a shame that the NFL got a deal done only after a team got a win taken away from them by a bad call. I didn't think the replacement refs would be as bad as they were but some of them acted like they have never watched a football game before. It was astounding how they could butcher some of the easy calls. I understand that it's a completely different game, for a variety of reasons, than the ones they are use to calling but some of the calls were pretty basic. How do you blow the spot of a punt at the four yard line and call it a touchback?

Nice to see them back and we can all get back to ripping on the real refs now.
_________________


Many thanks to UniversalAuthor on the #87 Sid's sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 8339
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
LikesHAM wrote:
Yay the return of ticky tack pass interference calls and phantom roughing the passer calls for the leagues marketable QBs.


Yep gone is the balanced offenses we've had the pleasure of seeing the past few weeks. Back to the 50 passes and 15 runs a game. Rolling Eyes


ya i liked it a lot better when the refs were completely inconsistent and just randomly threw flags.


Yeah because that didn't happen with the regular referees


it was a lot more consistent then it was with the replacement.


this is a perfect example...since the next drive woodson mugged the TE and they didnt even call anything. ya the regular refs have problems and miss calls but anyone who thinks the replacement refs are even on the same par with the regular refs dont pay close attention to the game.
_________________

props to deadpulse
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeneralTso


Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 7203
Location: Props to Rase on Sig
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
Quote:
Retirement benefits will be provided for new hires, and for all officials beginning in 2017, through a defined contribution arrangement, which will have two elements: an annual league contribution made on behalf of each game official that will begin with an average of more than $18,000 per official and increase to more than $23,000 per official in 2019, and a partial match on any additional contribution that an official makes to his 401(k) account.


Probably the biggest thing.

Can't believe the NFL would cave like that.

Debatable. Unlike what some conspiracy theorists on these forums were trying to suggest the Owners weren't trying to, nor did they have the legal ability, to strip the union of their pensions. They wanted to change the distribution schedule and pattern such that it could be more stringently budgeted (as opposed to having to maintain a large slush fund to cover the pensions accrued due to referees if/when they retired).

They weren't ever going to get a purely employee funded 401K, and likely in order to keep from raising the wages (which sets a more dangerous standard as it establishes a precedent by which the union will expect the per-contract increase to be with each subsequent CBA), they conceded some annual employer funding into the 401k program. If this gets them the officials full-time, it's a well worthwhile concession.


I'm fine with any concessions if the officials became full time employees, but they weren't yet.
_________________

james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Yeah, [Mike] Wallace would be like 4th fastest on the Raiders.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
iPwn


Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 43206
Location: Drinking in a closet until the draft
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
The LBC wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
Quote:
Retirement benefits will be provided for new hires, and for all officials beginning in 2017, through a defined contribution arrangement, which will have two elements: an annual league contribution made on behalf of each game official that will begin with an average of more than $18,000 per official and increase to more than $23,000 per official in 2019, and a partial match on any additional contribution that an official makes to his 401(k) account.


Probably the biggest thing.

Can't believe the NFL would cave like that.

Debatable. Unlike what some conspiracy theorists on these forums were trying to suggest the Owners weren't trying to, nor did they have the legal ability, to strip the union of their pensions. They wanted to change the distribution schedule and pattern such that it could be more stringently budgeted (as opposed to having to maintain a large slush fund to cover the pensions accrued due to referees if/when they retired).

They weren't ever going to get a purely employee funded 401K, and likely in order to keep from raising the wages (which sets a more dangerous standard as it establishes a precedent by which the union will expect the per-contract increase to be with each subsequent CBA), they conceded some annual employer funding into the 401k program. If this gets them the officials full-time, it's a well worthwhile concession.


I'm fine with any concessions if the officials became full time employees, but they weren't yet.


Not all of them, but some of them will become full time. It's a start.
_________________

The road to success is always under construction - Gus Bradley
#JagsOnly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LikesHAM


Joined: 14 May 2012
Posts: 1662
Location: St Louis
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101,



^This was ruled as an incompletion by the regular refs in week 17 of 2011 between the Packers and Lions. The Lions couldn't challenge it because they had already used their challenges I believe but it's on par with if not worse than any of the calls we've seen from the replacement refs. I can pull alot of other examples of terrible calls by the regular refs too.

Pass heavy teams get a large quantity of BS interference calls where the DB has no real way of playing the ball.

People have forgotten how much we complained about the regular refs for inconsistencies, ticky tack calls, and overly protecting the leagues marquee players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluesfreak74


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1738
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
bluesfreak74 wrote:
It's a shame it took this much bad PR for the league to actually start negiotating (sp).

Not expecting these refs to be perfect because they will miss calls, but as long as they can spot the ball correctly, not let players influence calls so much I'll be happy.


Well, you're SOL there. Marquee players will go back to being able to just give the ref a look and get a call. Receivers will still complain well over 80% of the time they don't make the catch that they were interfered with, and they'll still likely draw those flags on account of it.

And your first sentence is patently false. Negotiations were and have been taking place for quite some time. Movement hadn't been made in a while, but the two groups had been at the bargaining table as recently as a week ago tomorrow. You'd be better off going off facts if you're going to make such brash statements.


Yeah, the marquee QBs mainly will get the benefit of the calls most of the time. Receivers and DBs will always act like they did nothing wrong when it's obvious it was a penalty, this is no surprise.

They were "talking", but I don't think the NFL was really trying to negotiate seriously until the last couple days with all the bad PR from the replacement refs. What I'm saying is they didn't have serious talks where they actually wanted to get something done because it was obvious the NFL didn't care about the integrity of the game until it cost a team the game (one of the most storied franchise's too) and the PR the league had, they knew they couldn't have the replacement refs out there for another week.

The NFL saved $3.5M with the replacement refs. I can't believe they wanted to save that little compared to the integrity they sacrificed with the replacement refs.

I'm glad the refs are back, but it's hard to applaud the NFL on something that should have been done weeks ago.
_________________


El Ramster on this beaut!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 10199
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I get a hallelujah!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ramsfan28


Moderator
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 6958
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: What do we complain about now?
_________________


Adopt-a-Ram
CB Janoris Jenkins
9 TKL, 1 FF


ViolentMonk71 wrote:


We're football fans...reactionary, delusional, and passionate...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 21236
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramsfan28 wrote:
Question: What do we complain about now?

Don't worry... people will find something...

I'd almost be willing to bet we'll still see the forum up in arms at least one more time (if not more) this season over the refs "blatantly handing __(insert team)__ the game".
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The LBC


Global Moderator
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 21236
Location: Where We Can't Have Nice Things
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluesfreak74 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
bluesfreak74 wrote:
It's a shame it took this much bad PR for the league to actually start negiotating (sp).

Not expecting these refs to be perfect because they will miss calls, but as long as they can spot the ball correctly, not let players influence calls so much I'll be happy.


Well, you're SOL there. Marquee players will go back to being able to just give the ref a look and get a call. Receivers will still complain well over 80% of the time they don't make the catch that they were interfered with, and they'll still likely draw those flags on account of it.

And your first sentence is patently false. Negotiations were and have been taking place for quite some time. Movement hadn't been made in a while, but the two groups had been at the bargaining table as recently as a week ago tomorrow. You'd be better off going off facts if you're going to make such brash statements.


Yeah, the marquee QBs mainly will get the benefit of the calls most of the time. Receivers and DBs will always act like they did nothing wrong when it's obvious it was a penalty, this is no surprise.

They were "talking", but I don't think the NFL was really trying to negotiate seriously until the last couple days with all the bad PR from the replacement refs. What I'm saying is they didn't have serious talks where they actually wanted to get something done because it was obvious the NFL didn't care about the integrity of the game until it cost a team the game (one of the most storied franchise's too) and the PR the league had, they knew they couldn't have the replacement refs out there for another week.

The NFL saved $3.5M with the replacement refs. I can't believe they wanted to save that little compared to the integrity they sacrificed with the replacement refs.

I'm glad the refs are back, but it's hard to applaud the NFL on something that should have been done weeks ago.

Get your facts straight. They saved $3.5M... so far. As in $3.5M in three weeks of regular season and 4 weeks of preseason. But even then, stop thinking in just the short term - that's the exact opposite of what the league was doing and if you think otherwise you really don't have a clue how big business works. They were willing to make sacrifices in the short-term to benefit their long-term plan (i.e. their 3-, 5-, and 10-year plans for the league). You don't run a multi-billion dollar business with an eye fixed solely on the here and now.

This entire ordeal, the league trying to get changes to the dinosaur-like system enacted is because the league has an eye to the future and trying to IMPROVE the product on the field for the long-term. And the driving force behind why they were doing that? Because their consumers, the fans, were demanding it; we, as fans, have been voicing an opinion to the league for some time that the quality of the officiating wasn't up to snuff and needed to improve. They put forward efforts to get that done, to satisfy the demand we've put before them, and people throw a hissy fit because they don't grasp that eggs have to be broken to make eggs. Or did folks honestly, reasonably expect the owners to just pay an ultra-premium price to enact the changes? That's not just bad business, that's GOD AWFUL business.

As for "willingness to talk" that can honestly be said of BOTH sides. The regular officials have day jobs, none of them were starving or risking going under without their $100K+ annual salary from the NFL. They had just as little motivation to get back to the bargaining table unless they were given concessions that were highly favorable to them.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ramsfan28


Moderator
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 6958
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Ramsfan28 wrote:
Question: What do we complain about now?

Don't worry... people will find something...

I'd almost be willing to bet we'll still see the forum up in arms at least one more time (if not more) this season over the refs "blatantly handing __(insert team)__ the game".


Hmmmm....

I figured everyone would just go back to complaining about commentators Laughing But I can see that happening as well.
_________________


Adopt-a-Ram
CB Janoris Jenkins
9 TKL, 1 FF


ViolentMonk71 wrote:


We're football fans...reactionary, delusional, and passionate...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
bluesfreak74


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1738
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
bluesfreak74 wrote:
The LBC wrote:
bluesfreak74 wrote:
It's a shame it took this much bad PR for the league to actually start negiotating (sp).

Not expecting these refs to be perfect because they will miss calls, but as long as they can spot the ball correctly, not let players influence calls so much I'll be happy.


Well, you're SOL there. Marquee players will go back to being able to just give the ref a look and get a call. Receivers will still complain well over 80% of the time they don't make the catch that they were interfered with, and they'll still likely draw those flags on account of it.

And your first sentence is patently false. Negotiations were and have been taking place for quite some time. Movement hadn't been made in a while, but the two groups had been at the bargaining table as recently as a week ago tomorrow. You'd be better off going off facts if you're going to make such brash statements.


Yeah, the marquee QBs mainly will get the benefit of the calls most of the time. Receivers and DBs will always act like they did nothing wrong when it's obvious it was a penalty, this is no surprise.

They were "talking", but I don't think the NFL was really trying to negotiate seriously until the last couple days with all the bad PR from the replacement refs. What I'm saying is they didn't have serious talks where they actually wanted to get something done because it was obvious the NFL didn't care about the integrity of the game until it cost a team the game (one of the most storied franchise's too) and the PR the league had, they knew they couldn't have the replacement refs out there for another week.

The NFL saved $3.5M with the replacement refs. I can't believe they wanted to save that little compared to the integrity they sacrificed with the replacement refs.

I'm glad the refs are back, but it's hard to applaud the NFL on something that should have been done weeks ago.

Get your facts straight. They saved $3.5M... so far. As in $3.5M in three weeks of regular season and 4 weeks of preseason. But even then, stop thinking in just the short term - that's the exact opposite of what the league was doing and if you think otherwise you really don't have a clue how big business works. They were willing to make sacrifices in the short-term to benefit their long-term plan (i.e. their 3-, 5-, and 10-year plans for the league). You don't run a multi-billion dollar business with an eye fixed solely on the here and now.

This entire ordeal, the league trying to get changes to the dinosaur-like system enacted is because the league has an eye to the future and trying to IMPROVE the product on the field for the long-term. And the driving force behind why they were doing that? Because their consumers, the fans, were demanding it; we, as fans, have been voicing an opinion to the league for some time that the quality of the officiating wasn't up to snuff and needed to improve. They put forward efforts to get that done, to satisfy the demand we've put before them, and people throw a hissy fit because they don't grasp that eggs have to be broken to make eggs. Or did folks honestly, reasonably expect the owners to just pay an ultra-premium price to enact the changes? That's not just bad business, that's GOD AWFUL business.

As for "willingness to talk" that can honestly be said of BOTH sides. The regular officials have day jobs, none of them were starving or risking going under without their $100K+ annual salary from the NFL. They had just as little motivation to get back to the bargaining table unless they were given concessions that were highly favorable to them.


That is what I was saying? Reading comprehension FTL.. The NFL saved just $3.5M with replacement refs which is pennies compared to the revenue they bring in. The NFL sacrificed the integrity of the game for pennies.

When you are the best at your job, which is obvious they are superior to these refs, they deserved to be paid at a very high premium. Seems like supply and demand. There is not a great supply of refs waiting to take their spots, so obviously the demand is going to be greater.

Look, I'm glad the NFL got their heads out of their *** and realized saving a couple pennies was not good for the game and got this deal done. For some reason you believe the NFL does no wrong and support them fully on everything and I don't listen to the BS they spew out all the time.
_________________


El Ramster on this beaut!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
Page 11 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group