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Rank The Top Five Defenses
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baconrad3


Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 7622
Location: Tempe, AZ
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
Football Outsiders' DVOA stat accounts for difficulty of opponents and such....and the Eagles are still #2 in their defensive rankings...


Actually, at this point in the season it does not (at all). You can see this by comparing the VOA and DVOA columns - they are currently identical as they have not been adjusted by defense.

Opponent adjustments are gradually introduced over the season (as they get an idea of how good the teams are).

I think it's by about week 12 that it is full DVOA


Word, didn't even catch that when looking at the chart.

It's not like that's the tell-all stat in my discussion here. I listed numerous other statistics in Philly's favor. I realize people think of the Eagles and just think high-powered offensive team and mediocre defense, but really our TRUE identity is a run-first, control the clock, elite defensive team. Andy Reid just refuses to admit it.


edit:

A few other stats as well to help prove my point.....

Philly has given up 20.6 yards/drive (2nd), 1.30 pts/drive (4th), .10 TDs/drive (3rd), and is 1st in the NFL in opposing team's Drive Success Rate at .556, which measure the % of down series that result in a first down or TD. Meaning that a staggering 55% of the time, the opposing offense doesn't get a first down or score a TD during their drive. The only team even close to that is Houston at 58.5%, and then no other team is under 60%

Atlanta is really a defense that relies on forcing turnovers. If they can't do that, then their defense is not nearly as good. They're forcing turnovers at a ridiculously high rate and I'm not sure they're going to be able to sustain that kind of success. And unfortunately for them, their defense itself isn't elite like that of San Francisco's, so it'll be more difficult for them to make up for the lack of turnovers when that happens.
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lionslicer


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 1809
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
Football Outsiders' DVOA stat accounts for difficulty of opponents and such....and the Eagles are still #2 in their defensive rankings...

We pretty much completely shut the Browns offense down...The defense only gave up 3 field goals, and IIRC they were all after our offense turned it over and Cleveland had a short field. Richardson has looked very good the past 2 games, and the defense shut him down.

Against the Ravens and Cardinals, again, turnovers played a massive part in both games.

Atlanta has the more impressive showing against San Diego, I'll give them that. They shut down what everyone thinks is a potent Chargers offense. Rivers, though, had one of his worst career games. Atlanta had a role in that, but I saw some of that game and he just didn't look like the usual Philip Rivers.

I just can't believe people are putting Atlanta at #3 here....both Seattle and Arizona have better defenses, and obviously Houston and SF as well.

I will say this...Atlanta definitely has a very opportunistic defense. Reminds me a bit of Green Bay's 2010 defense. Great at forcing turnovers. However, it's not some huge disparity like Superman made it out to be above. They only have 2 more INTs than the Eagles, but they've just been recovering more fumbles. And most of us know that recovering a fumble is almost sheer luck.

Atlanta just doesn't scream "shut down" defense to me. You can move the ball fairly easily on them it seems. They have just been forcing turnovers at a high rate this season. Philly, on the other hand, has proven to be a very tough defense to move the ball against.


No one is saying the Eagles defense isn't good, just not top 5. They shut down Trent Richardson who admitted that he played badly, same with Weeden. They both put extra work in which is why they played better the next 2 games. I think if they were prepared, they would have had more success against the defense. That defense just doesn't look that great, they can play great at times, but then other times get burned on relatively routine plays.

The Falcons have more of that bend but don't break mentality. They'll let teams move on them, but no one has had must success scoring on them. Scoring and turnovers are more important than yards. Maybe teams will catch on to their schemes. Manning figured them out after seeing the defense for a while and had success, so it wouldn't surprise me if more teams find out holes in the defense.
But as of right now, week 3, until proven other wise, they are a top 5 defense and better than the Eagles defense.
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motorcycle


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 472
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My rankings are only from week 1 to today!

1. Arizona
2. Seattle
3. Houston
4. San Francisco
5. Philadelphia

Arizona has had the toughest schedule of the 5 so are top in my opinion. Sam Acho has been unexpectedly (for me) vastly improved this season, they have the best pair of 34 DEs in the league, Washington was amazing v Philly (especially on the fumble recovery touchdown) and Peterson may be my best cornerback of 2012/13 so far.

If I had to choose who I think will have the best defence at the end of this season, I'd say Houston or San Francisco. Houston's D has all great games so far but the first 2 games were against 2 of the worst offenses in football, so I 'downgrade' them for that. A true analyst would be able to judge players' talents no matter the opposition, but I'm not yet at that stage. If Houston had played tougher opposition they would be higher and I can't criticise anything they've done so far.

Seattle's secondary is the best in football in my opinion and their defensive line is (with Philadelphia's) the best 43 line in football. Wagner has impressed me a lot this season.

I had San Francisco number 1 before the Minnesota game, and admittedly my rankings are overreactionary and only based on 3 games. If I had to bet my life on a defence, I'd choose San Francisco but that Minnesota game left me surprised. But it was just one game.

Philadelphia have been wonderful in everything but their safeties this year. Boykin had a wonderful opening 2 weeks and I hope he can play like that in the future. Tapp and Llandri have been unexpected surprises for me this year.

I haven't seen enough of Atlanta this year to have an honest opinion on them. Also Miami's run defence is the best in football based on average yards against, plus they've played Houston in week 1. Chicago have an excellent defensive line rotation and Tim Jennings has been amazing so far, but I think their linebackers are past it now and can be taken advantage of. It's still a top 10 defence though.

Being a Green Bay fan I was so down on our defence after week 1, but has improved a lot in the last 2 weeks. Though I don't like either of our interior linebackers and we have no depth behind that. I expect Green Bay's defence to be around number 10 at the end of the season.
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streetlight3989


Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Texans
2. Niners
3. Cardinals
4. Seahawks
5. Eagles

Right now I'd say the Eagles defense is top 5. Their game Sunday night against the Giants will tell a lot about this defense. The Giants have one of the best offenses in the league and we'll know this Eagles Defense's true identity after this game.
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DRC29 INT


Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 1357
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

motorcycle wrote:
My rankings are only from week 1 to today!

1. Arizona
2. Seattle
3. Houston
4. San Francisco
5. Philadelphia

Arizona has had the toughest schedule of the 5 so are top in my opinion. Sam Acho has been unexpectedly (for me) vastly improved this season, they have the best pair of 34 DEs in the league, Washington was amazing v Philly (especially on the fumble recovery touchdown) and Peterson may be my best cornerback of 2012/13 so far.



Sam Acho was pretty good last year too. Washington is our ILB, so it's Acho and Schofield as our OLBs.

And Patrick Peterson ftw. Already elite at the CB position.
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bootsy


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas has the number 1 ranked defense right now and not one person mentioned them.
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o_0


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bootsy wrote:
Dallas has the number 1 ranked defense right now and not one person mentioned them.

Top ranked defense in terms of what? Yards? Laughing The reason no one has mentioned Dallas is because they are not a top 5 defense.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o_0 wrote:
bootsy wrote:
Dallas has the number 1 ranked defense right now and not one person mentioned them.

Top ranked defense in terms of what? Yards? Laughing The reason no one has mentioned Dallas is because they are not a top 5 defense.


Exactly Laughing

You have played Seattle, who hardly throws the ball.

From what I saw in the Seahawks game, that D isn't playing like a Top-5 unit.
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JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

motorcycle wrote:
My rankings are only from week 1 to today!

1. Arizona
2. Seattle
3. Houston
4. San Francisco
5. Philadelphia

Arizona has had the toughest schedule of the 5 so are top in my opinion. Sam Acho has been unexpectedly (for me) vastly improved this season, they have the best pair of 34 DEs in the league, Washington was amazing v Philly (especially on the fumble recovery touchdown) and Peterson may be my best cornerback of 2012/13 so far.


Except its like third and not even the best in their division. Laughing
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 46672
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
motorcycle wrote:
My rankings are only from week 1 to today!

1. Arizona
2. Seattle
3. Houston
4. San Francisco
5. Philadelphia

Arizona has had the toughest schedule of the 5 so are top in my opinion. Sam Acho has been unexpectedly (for me) vastly improved this season, they have the best pair of 34 DEs in the league, Washington was amazing v Philly (especially on the fumble recovery touchdown) and Peterson may be my best cornerback of 2012/13 so far.


Except its like third and not even the best in their division. Laughing


I assume you mean behind the Texans and 49ers?
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I'm so confident in the Skins this season (offensively), I think they challenge the Patriots scoring record.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 10728
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
motorcycle wrote:
My rankings are only from week 1 to today!

1. Arizona
2. Seattle
3. Houston
4. San Francisco
5. Philadelphia

Arizona has had the toughest schedule of the 5 so are top in my opinion. Sam Acho has been unexpectedly (for me) vastly improved this season, they have the best pair of 34 DEs in the league, Washington was amazing v Philly (especially on the fumble recovery touchdown) and Peterson may be my best cornerback of 2012/13 so far.


Except its like third and not even the best in their division. Laughing


I assume you mean behind the Texans and 49ers?


That would make sense.

Although I would share the argument that Campbell and Dockett are the best PAIR. JJ Watt and Justin Smith are better than those two though.
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El ramster


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 41021
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EliteTexan80 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
Crazy that 3 NFC West teams are listed here, but it's pretty hard to leave any of those 3 teams off a list of top 5 defenses. They all seem like elite defenses at this point, and St. Louis isn't too shabby either, but they're more of a fringe top-10 defense.


I was thinking the same thing...and was also thinking that St. Louis has the personnel and coaching staff to jump EVERYONE in their division - a tall order in its own right.

Once Michael Brockers, Chris Long and Robert Quinn get going at a high gear, the whole D should be able to elevate beyond where they are now. Janoris Jenkins and Cortland Finnegan have the makings of two stubborn CBs who can get in a WRs head, James Laurinitis is a great throwback MLB who is all over the place...this D has the foundation to become very good, and with a plethora of picks over the next few years, has the future to become dominant.

Of the NFC West defenses, St. Louis probably has the most upside - and that is saying a LOT.


We are missing Brockers so badly..
Dude eats up space and can let
James roam freely.. Finnegan has been
an amazing pick up. Dude has been playing
great.

But I am salivating over this defensive personnel's
future. I also love our coaches. A lot of experience
and that can only help.. LOVE YOU ET!!
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RandyMossIsBoss


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. 49ers
2. Texans

(For now these two are set in stone IMO)
3. Philadelphia Eagles (Homer pick? Yes. Reasonable pick? Yes)
4. Seattle Seahawks
5. Arizona Cardinals

HMs: Bears, Falcons, Ravens, Steelers (They haven't had their two best defenders for two weeks in a row so obviously their stats are way down)
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MaddHatter


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 44606
Location: ROH Class of 14
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Seattle
2. Arizona
3. Houston
4. Atlanta
5. Chicago
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49ers4life52


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 3194
Location: Fresno, CA
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol at the people saying the 49ers defense isn't top 5. Talk about an overreaction after one game.

1. 49ers (They been playing elite since last year and one game doesn't dethrone them.)
2. Texans
3. Seattle
4. Cardinals
5.Eagles
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