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Percy Harvin a top 10 WR?
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renndawg37


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 1511
Location: Toronto, ON
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin a top 10 WR? Reply with quote

Eric dunn wrote:
Ok, everyone knows Percy Harvin is playing lights out this year. And he has been an electrifying playmaker since entering the league. So my question to yall is do yall think that Percy Harvin is a top 10 WR? IMO i think that he was right on the brink before the season, and now has solidified that title of being a top 10 WR.

My top 10 WRs:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Andre Johnson
4. Steve Smith
5. Hakeem Nicks
6. Greg Jennings
7. Roddy White
8. Vincent Jackson
9. Percy Harvin
10. Mike Wallace

HM: Julio Jones, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Miles Austin


Harvin and Vincent Jackson are NOT better than Green and Wayne. Having Green outside the top 10 is a joke.
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Vikefan79


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvin is top 20 but not top 10
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know is he was an excellent fantasy pickup this year Laughing
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onepostlegend


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 171
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is absolutely a top 10 receiver.

There are three logical ways to interpret the question:

1. Of all players listed as Wide Receiver, whose overall skill set and level of performance is best?

2. Of all players in the league, who most fits our ideal of the best Wide Receiver?

3. Of all players listed as Wide Receiver, who most fits our ideal of the best Wide Receiver

In (1), the answer is arguably Percy Harvin, but it could be somebody like Calvin Johnson. There are not 10 people ahead of Harvin in this interpretation. In (2), the answer is probably either Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald, but it could (theoretically) be somebody like Gronkowski, and it almost certainly isn't Percy Harvin. And in (3), the answer is either Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald, and it almost certainly isn't Percy Harvin.

My overall point is this: people have too rigid a view of what it means to be a Wide Receiver. The weak view is best because Wide Receivers are demarcated in the context of an offense merely by where they primarily line up on the field, not what they do after the snap. Doing what traditional receivers can do does not make a player more valuable than a more "unorthodox" receiver, especially when said unorthodox receiver (Harvin) has an elite catch rate AND first down rate. Sure, his touchdown rate is low this year, but (1) young quarterbacks often have low touchdown rates (even ones with elite receivers--see: Newton, Cameron),too, and (2) most of Ponder's red zone targets (understandably) go to Kyle Rudolph. It also could be the case that his low touchdown rate so far is a little anomalous.

Furthermore, I'd argue that a decent gauge of a player's quality is how difficult it is for the opponent to prepare against him and ultimately attempt to stop him. It seems more plausible to me that a team can design coverage schemes to eliminate, say, Greg Jennings, than contain Percy Harvin--if Harvin gets the ball in space, the defense is basically at his mercy from that point on. That it is easier to put Harvin in a position to succeed than other, more traditional receivers allows for the reasonable argument that (1) his skill set is more valuable to a given team and (2) his skill set is more translatable to schemes and teams foreign to the ones with which he is currently acquainted. He can more readily thrive in offenses with poor quarterbacking and limited offensive weapons than, say, Mike Wallace or Hakeem Nicks.

My rankings:
1. Calvin Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. AJ Green
4. Percy Harvin
5. Andre Johnson
6. Steve Smith
7. Jordy Nelson
8. Roddy White
9. Hakeem Nicks
10. Miles Austin
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Percy Harvin a top 10 WR? Reply with quote

renndawg37 wrote:
Eric dunn wrote:
Ok, everyone knows Percy Harvin is playing lights out this year. And he has been an electrifying playmaker since entering the league. So my question to yall is do yall think that Percy Harvin is a top 10 WR? IMO i think that he was right on the brink before the season, and now has solidified that title of being a top 10 WR.

My top 10 WRs:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Andre Johnson
4. Steve Smith
5. Hakeem Nicks
6. Greg Jennings
7. Roddy White
8. Vincent Jackson
9. Percy Harvin
10. Mike Wallace

HM: Julio Jones, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Miles Austin


Harvin and Vincent Jackson are NOT better than Green and Wayne. Having Green outside the top 10 is a joke.


I know...Jackson over Green...or Wayne for that matter, that is just all time fail worthy. I might even say Harvin over Jackson, which the OP didn't even do.

I gotta ask...why do people continually use Matt Cassel's ineptness AGAINST Dwayne Bowe when compiling these lists? He can't even get honorable mentions anymore. He was even top 10 in yards this year until the morons that call themselves coaches decided to stop throwing at all against the Ravens and then stop throwing any route past 10 yards against TB. Rolling Eyes

This guy is as proven as they come...1,000 yards every full season since '07 while never having a good QB. There are QB's that are bad, but their teams still throw alot, and they can actually make good NFL throws they just make too many mistakes, so the WR's numbers don't suffer. KC has been a running team Bowe's entire career and he's had QB's who are just plain bad, game manager type guys with limited arms, who mostly try not to turn it over.
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PeteyPercyPonde


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game

1st in Kickoff Return Average
1st in All Purpose Yards
8th in Yards from scrimmage
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7864
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.
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MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


That is just how Harvin's role limits him and why many devalue Harvin as a WR. Harvin is a great WR along the LOS and under 10 yards, he is so dynamic the sooner he gets the ball. That is just how his style is and where his strengths are. he is a more explosive Wes Welker basically and look how undervalued Welker has been over his career.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7864
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


That is just how Harvin's role limits him and why many devalue Harvin as a WR. Harvin is a great WR along the LOS and under 10 yards, he is so dynamic the sooner he gets the ball. That is just how his style is and where his strengths are. he is a more explosive Wes Welker basically and look how undervalued Welker has been over his career.
The fact that he hasn't really developed as a X or Y WR and hasn't developed into a deep threat is what is keeping him down on this list. Like others have said, he is one of, if no the best weapon in the NFL but at WR....
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Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I hope for Harvin's and the Vikings sake, they can get a true outside WR to keep Harvin as a short area receiver. Harvin isnt just a slot guy, he plays all over but he hasnt that developed as a down field receiver. But I dont think Harvin has to be, he is just so good at what he does now.

While I admit I dont think Harvin is top 10, but he seriously has to be considerd a top 15 WR.
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 681
Location: Billings, MT
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7864
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.
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Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 681
Location: Billings, MT
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.


Just curious, how would he be more productive in NE? Take catches away from Welker? He leads the league in All-purpose yards, how much more productive can the guy be? He would probably average more yards per catch, but I don't see that's necessarily being more productive.

Averaging just over 100 yards from scrimmage per game and a shade under 175 all purpose yards per game, making him the most productive player in football right now.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7864
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.

He would probably average more yards per catch, but I don't see that's necessarily being more productive.
Confused Really? A better YPC isn't more productive? So you would rather have a guy who catches 110 passes at a 10 YPC over a guy who has 75 catches at 20 YPC?
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Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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