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Percy Harvin a top 10 WR?
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 771
Location: Billings, MT
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.

He would probably average more yards per catch, but I don't see that's necessarily being more productive.
Confused Really? A better YPC isn't more productive? So you would rather have a guy who catches 110 passes at a 10 YPC over a guy who has 75 catches at 20 YPC?


So you are saying if Harvin went to NE he could lead the league in YPC, which often time it's around 20. Randy Moss's career average was 15.6 and had over 17 YPC 3 times in his career. When he played with Brady he never averaged more than 15.2. That's quite the stretch.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 8077
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.

He would probably average more yards per catch, but I don't see that's necessarily being more productive.
Confused Really? A better YPC isn't more productive? So you would rather have a guy who catches 110 passes at a 10 YPC over a guy who has 75 catches at 20 YPC?


So you are saying if Harvin went to NE he could lead the league in YPC, which often time it's around 20. Randy Moss's career average was 15.6 and had over 17 YPC 3 times in his career. When he played with Brady he never averaged more than 15.2. That's quite the stretch.
I was using hypothetical numbers. I was asking if you would rather have a guy who caught 110 passes and had 10 YPC or a guy who has 75 catches with a 20 YPC?
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Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 771
Location: Billings, MT
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
Say what you want but through Week 6:

1st in receptions
7th in receiving yards
1st in yards after catch
9th in receiving yards per game
This is the problem most people have with him. He is basically the only legit NFL caliber WR on the Vikings and he is, so far getting force fed the ball. If somebody is 7th in catches but 1st in yards, that is good value. The fact he is 1st in YAC but only 9th in yards per game says he is getting the ball at or around the LOS most of the time. Efficiecny is a big deal to a lot of people, thats why guys like Brandon Marshall are not on the top of every WR list.


And? Larry Fitzgerald is far and beyond the most legit receiver in Arizona and he has 36 catches for 430 yards and is averaging less than 1 yard more per catch than Percy.

The Vikings could line him outside and limit his touches, but they play to his strengths and get him the ball where he can utilize his speed which takes down his YPC and increases his YAC. In all honesty I think a team like the Eagles would be a lot better using Desean Jackson like the Vikings use Percy rather than hoping for that one home run every game, which BTW hasn't come yet.


Jackson gives up like 25 pounds to Harvin, he would get killed.
Yeah he would. I think it all depends on how you value slot WR's. Percy could be a real star WR in New England if he was there with all the other weapons they have. His touches might go down but he would be much more productive. In Green Bay, he probably wouldn't play a ton. Like Cobb they would give him touches but the Offense would still go through the deep ball and Rodgers-Jennings-Nelson-Jones would always be the biggest stars.

He would probably average more yards per catch, but I don't see that's necessarily being more productive.
Confused Really? A better YPC isn't more productive? So you would rather have a guy who catches 110 passes at a 10 YPC over a guy who has 75 catches at 20 YPC?


So you are saying if Harvin went to NE he could lead the league in YPC, which often time it's around 20. Randy Moss's career average was 15.6 and had over 17 YPC 3 times in his career. When he played with Brady he never averaged more than 15.2. That's quite the stretch.
I was using hypothetical numbers. I was asking if you would rather have a guy who caught 110 passes and had 10 YPC or a guy who has 75 catches with a 20 YPC?


I think anyone would take the 20 YPC, and I was saying that's an unrealistic mark, even your top WR average around 15 YPC.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would be foolish to not take 75 catches and 20 yds/catch, but I would be curious to know how rare of a feat that actually is. I get the point being made, but lets be more realistic. How about 75 catches and 16 yds/catch vs 110 catches and 11 yds/catch.

Harvin averaged 13 and 12 yards a catch in 09 and 10 playing with Brett Favre, a QB known for throwing it around down field. In 2011, with Ponder/McNabb and with Ponder in 2012, Harvin has been around 11 yds/catch.
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 771
Location: Billings, MT
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
You would be foolish to not take 75 catches and 20 yds/catch, but I would be curious to know how rare of a feat that actually is. I get the point being made, but lets be more realistic. How about 75 catches and 16 yds/catch vs 110 catches and 11 yds/catch.

Harvin averaged 13 and 12 yards a catch in 09 and 10 playing with Brett Favre, a QB known for throwing it around down field. In 2011, with Ponder/McNabb and with Ponder in 2012, Harvin has been around 11 yds/catch.


From what I was looking at, it's a pretty feat.

CJ's best season has been 17.5
Moss had 77 catches at 17.7 per
TO had 81 at 16.7
Rice had 86 at 18.3

And we are talking the best of the best here. If we are going on projections, Harvin is on pace to catch 130 @ 11 YPC right now.
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moss_is_1


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 4633
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvin has to be up there.

I'm not sure if he struggles getting open downfield, Ponder has trouble seeing deep, or if Percy gets blanketed downfield because we have no other options...or what.

Harvin caught a fair amount of deep balls with Favre here, but we had Moss/Sidney Rice to stretch the field. I think if we could get consistent production from Jerome Simpson or draft a great #2 who can really stretch the field you would see Harvin making a lot more explosive plays down the field instead of being our "Wes Welker".
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe there's ANYONE who still rates Miles Austin as a top 10 WR.
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 12435
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I can't believe there's ANYONE who still rates Miles Austin as a top 10 WR.


Lol who does? That was 2 years ago. Ive not heard somebody say that.
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