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scar988
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 28718
Location: Charleston, SC
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Grachuus wrote: | | ATL Jones Bro3 wrote: | | Mesa_Titan wrote: | | scar988 wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | Rhoddy White is a man who catches about half the balls that come his way and gets a ton of targets. I wouldn't put him in my top five. Receivers are supposed to catch the football. |
he has 1 drop in 2012... |
Yes because he was clearly saying Roddy White drops 50% of his passes. |
But it's not even in the realm of possibility though. He's a dumb Falcons hater like 92% of this forum. |
Explain what I have to hate about the Falcons.
The number of targets a player receives CAN be good. The issue is the number of plays a player takes up in comparison to the number of catches they make can make an offense either more or less reliable. That is to say if Rhoddy gets all of Ryan's targets for example but only catches 200 balls(on 500 attempts) even though he has caught an amazing amount of footballs the Falcons have had what is assuredly a poor season and Rhoddy failed to make good on his opportunities. |
btw, it's Roddy. Not Rhoddy.
But using your assumption that White only catches half of the balls thrown his way, you're still completely wrong.
Since Matt Ryan came to Atlanta:
2008 - 99 catches on 158 targets (62.7%), for 1468 yards, 8 touchdowns and 15 drops.
2009 - 85 catches on 152 targets (55.9%), for 1153 yards, 11 touchdowns and 6 drops.
2010 - 121 catches on 176 targets (68.8%), for 1446 yards, 11 touchdowns and 9 drops.
2011 - 105 catches on 186 targets (56.5%), for 1348 yards, 8 touchdowns and 17 drops.
2012 - 27 catches on 37 targets (73.0%), for 413 yards, 3 touchdowns and 2 drops.
TOTAL - 437 catches on 709 targets (61.6%), for 4828 yards, 41 touchdowns and 47 drops.
Per 500 attempts: 308 catches (61.6%) for 3439 yards, 29 touchdowns and 33 drops
So how is that a bad catch rate? hell, how is that "half" as you state? yes he has a lot of drops. Catching 300 balls on 500 attempts wouldn't be a bad thing. So again, not seeing how Roddy makes bad on his opportunities at all.
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scar988
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 28718
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| reckless123 wrote: | Correct me if im wrong, but targets can be misleading. Just because you are targetted it doesnt mean that all the balls are catchable. A pass can be broken up, it can be a poor pass, you can throw the ball when the WR isnt open etc. Larry Fitzgerald gets loads are targets if im not mistaken but he has had terrible QB play and what do bad QBs do, they then to force the ball to their best weapon because theyre most comfortable throwing the ball to that the guy.
The only way targets can be used as a bad stat imo is if you have a ton of targets but dont have reasonable amount of yards for that stat. For instance if you 200 targets but only have 1200 yards, then it can be used as a negative. |
If you catch 135 of those and get 1200 yards the targets are still no biggie.
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willy_law
Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8292
Location: Villanova University
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I would take 4 or 5 WR ahead of Roddy. I wouldn't even consider taking him ahead of Fitz or Megatron
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8608
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| ATL Jones Bro3 wrote: | | Since when have we said WR's are bad because they get more targets? This forum is stupid and that guy who keeps posting the laughing smiley is cocky and thinks he's an expert on everything football. |
If this forum is stupid, why are you posting here?
mse already warned people to stop with the name calling. Cut it out with this nonsense. That goes for everyone.
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 25109
Location: Thanks for the Sig Deadpulse!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| scar988 wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | ATL Jones Bro3 wrote: | | Mesa_Titan wrote: | | scar988 wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | Rhoddy White is a man who catches about half the balls that come his way and gets a ton of targets. I wouldn't put him in my top five. Receivers are supposed to catch the football. |
he has 1 drop in 2012... |
Yes because he was clearly saying Roddy White drops 50% of his passes. |
But it's not even in the realm of possibility though. He's a dumb Falcons hater like 92% of this forum. |
Explain what I have to hate about the Falcons.
The number of targets a player receives CAN be good. The issue is the number of plays a player takes up in comparison to the number of catches they make can make an offense either more or less reliable. That is to say if Rhoddy gets all of Ryan's targets for example but only catches 200 balls(on 500 attempts) even though he has caught an amazing amount of footballs the Falcons have had what is assuredly a poor season and Rhoddy failed to make good on his opportunities. |
btw, it's Roddy. Not Rhoddy.
But using your assumption that White only catches half of the balls thrown his way, you're still completely wrong.
Since Matt Ryan came to Atlanta:
2008 - 99 catches on 158 targets (62.7%), for 1468 yards, 8 touchdowns and 15 drops.
2009 - 85 catches on 152 targets (55.9%), for 1153 yards, 11 touchdowns and 6 drops.
2010 - 121 catches on 176 targets (68.8%), for 1446 yards, 11 touchdowns and 9 drops.
2011 - 105 catches on 186 targets (56.5%), for 1348 yards, 8 touchdowns and 17 drops.
2012 - 27 catches on 37 targets (73.0%), for 413 yards, 3 touchdowns and 2 drops.
TOTAL - 437 catches on 709 targets (61.6%), for 4828 yards, 41 touchdowns and 47 drops.
Per 500 attempts: 308 catches (61.6%) for 3439 yards, 29 touchdowns and 33 drops
So how is that a bad catch rate? hell, how is that "half" as you state? yes he has a lot of drops. Catching 300 balls on 500 attempts wouldn't be a bad thing. So again, not seeing how Roddy makes bad on his opportunities at all. |
What did he do last year? About half. That was in an atmosphere for multiple quarterbacks broke the all time yardage record and multiple defenses ceded a record number of yards. That doesn't impress me to the level you want me to be impressed. He's not the best wideout in the league right nwo.
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 5602
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| scar988 wrote: | | reckless123 wrote: | Correct me if im wrong, but targets can be misleading. Just because you are targetted it doesnt mean that all the balls are catchable. A pass can be broken up, it can be a poor pass, you can throw the ball when the WR isnt open etc. Larry Fitzgerald gets loads are targets if im not mistaken but he has had terrible QB play and what do bad QBs do, they then to force the ball to their best weapon because theyre most comfortable throwing the ball to that the guy.
The only way targets can be used as a bad stat imo is if you have a ton of targets but dont have reasonable amount of yards for that stat. For instance if you 200 targets but only have 1200 yards, then it can be used as a negative. |
If you catch 135 of those and get 1200 yards the targets are still no biggie. |
yeh it is. 135 catches at the very least should equal 1400 yards.
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 26371
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| JDKing14 wrote: | | incognito_man wrote: | | GSUeagles14 wrote: |
It's sad that you can't back up your arguments and try to resort to, Personal attacks. poor ones at that |
Are you arguing that Roddy White isn't among the league leaders in targets consistently?
That was my claim.
Feel free to provide a counter argument  |
You know who else is in the league leaders in targets consistently? Calvin, Andre, and Fitz. |
Roddy is 1st, 1st, 2nd
Calvin is 3rd, 10th, 11th
Fitz is 4th, 9th, 6th
Andre is 9th, 1st and 2nd
over each of their last 3 full seasons, so yes, you are correct. Now, in YPT, this is how they've ranked:
Roddy - 52nd, 37th, 56th
Calvin - 9th, 22nd, 49th
Fitz - 19th, 61st, 51st
Andre - 14th, 18th, 11th
So Calvin and Andre are clearly better at getting yards, Fitz is about the same. And I know some people like to include QB play as well, so we can either say that Matt Ryan is on the same level of John Skelton or that Fitz is doing as much with less. Either way I'm good.
I don't see why everyone gets so upset, I have Roddy probably in my 6-8 range - he's a great WR, I just think there are better ones. |
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 26371
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| scar988 wrote: |
So how is that a bad catch rate? |
How? Compared to others.
In 2011 Roddy was 49th
In 2010 Roddy was 14th
In 2009 Roddy was 64th
In 2008 Roddy was 42nd |
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broncos67
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 18071
Location: Capitol Cit-ay
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Nah, he's not, but he's still incredibly good.
1. Calvin Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Andre Johnson
4. AJ Green
5. Roddy White
That's where I would have it. 4 and 5 are semi-interchangable. For the record, I love Roddy White, one of my favorite players in the NFL, but the receivers that were called inconsistent, specifically Fitz, are that way because of an atrocious QB situation. AJ has no one to take pressure off him and still puts up massive numbers. You could also say that for every WR on this list save Roddy who has JJ and Gonzo, but he's still pure class.
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ATL Jones Bro3
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Just a quick question.... Does anyone here think Roddy White is just now "breaking out"? Just trying to make sure... |
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BillsGuy82
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 6644
Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Roddy White is in no way shape or form better than Megatron, Fitz, Andre or AJ Green.. I'm not sure I'd take him before Dwayne Bowe, or Hakeem Nicks |
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ATL Jones Bro3
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| BillsGuy82 wrote: | | Roddy White is in no way shape or form better than Megatron, Fitz, Andre or AJ Green.. I'm not sure I'd take him before Dwayne Bowe, or Hakeem Nicks |
How are they better? Oh right they're flashier. |
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GSUeagles14
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 4234
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| incognito_man wrote: | | scar988 wrote: |
So how is that a bad catch rate? |
How? Compared to others.
In 2011 Roddy was 49th
In 2010 Roddy was 14th
In 2009 Roddy was 64th
In 2008 Roddy was 42nd |
1. Catch rate is an incredibly flawed stat
2. What's the minimum for targets to be included in that stat? |
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incognito_man
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 26371
Location: Madison
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| GSUeagles14 wrote: | | incognito_man wrote: | | scar988 wrote: |
So how is that a bad catch rate? |
How? Compared to others.
In 2011 Roddy was 49th
In 2010 Roddy was 14th
In 2009 Roddy was 64th
In 2008 Roddy was 42nd |
1. Catch rate is an incredibly flawed stat
2. What's the minimum for targets to be included in that stat? |
1. Why are you quoting me?
2. http://www.advancednflstats.com/ |
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RandyMossIsBoss
Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 8103
Location: Peppers90 on the sig, Kiltman on the avy
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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No, simply because who would you take out of the top 3? Calvin? Fitz? Andre? I don't think so. I could see any reasonable argument for Roddy in the 4-10 range and I personally have him at 6.
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