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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.

When I see Rodgers and Brady play, I see them dominate a game and elevate their receivers. When I see Matt play, I see him playing okay, not controlling the game, not losing the game, and just doing his best to get the ball to his playmakers so they can win the game for him.

Matt is a good QB, there is no denying that. He's still not elite. It is a heck of a lot easier to look great when you have two elite #1 prototypical WRs, solid #3 WR, a good OL, a HOF TE, and two above average RBs all the while playing in a cozy dome.

Lets also not forget who he's played. The Chiefs and Panthers have been completely inept in the pass defense, and the Chargers and Broncos are both middle of the pack teams. It's not like he's lighting up the Niners and Texans

This is probably the only point that we've ever seen... and possibly will ever see eye to eye on.... Wink Laughing
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
Aaron Rodgers - Jennings, Nelson, jones, Cobb, Finley
Drew Brees - graham, Colston, Moore, elite run game
Tom Brady - grok, Hernandez, welker

Every qb had at least two elite weapons, but when Ryan does it with maybe 3 it's all because of them. I don't get it...

And with none of those names do I see two top 7 WR talents. I suppose my definition of elite is different than yours. I see elite for most positions as being top 5- or in the top 5 conversation.. I don't view Jennings nor Nelson as being elite receivers honestly. I'll buy that both guys are top 20 (with a healthy Jennings being just outside my top 10) WRs.

With Brees, I'll agree that Jimmy Graham is elite- as IMO I view him as the best TE weapon in the league (though not the most complete), I don't view Colston as an elite WR- he's not in my top 10... I view him in a similar class to Torrey Smith as a receiver- top 15 type. And elite running game... the Saints??? Really??? Since when? Looks more like a bottom 5 unit than a top 5 unit to me. Who knew that the 26th rushing unit in the NFL whose highest RB is 32nd in yards... has an elite rushing unit.

And listing Brady having Hernandez isn't really the best example, seeing as how Hernandez being out lowered their offensive efficiency until they made adjustments. And seeing as how when that pair played together last season they produced 5k and likely would've won the MVP had it not been for Rodgers balling out on another level.

And like I said, it isn't just the stats- but the play. I've seen other players that I feel are more valuable to their teams. I don't feel like Ryan has just propped himself up and put himself on that next level. For instance last season Rodgers had similar yardage and TD stats to what Matt Ryan is projected to have this season, yet he won the MVP over three guys who passed for over 5k for a reason- the guy made Ryan's efficiency this season look like a walk in the park, the guy was making plays with his feet and his arm, the guy was spinning off sacks and making defenders look silly. His ball placement was nothing short of amazing to see. He had all the physical tools. Rodger was also carrying a defense that had considerably regressed from the previous season. Rodgers was a man possessed and honestly made his WRs look better than perhaps their own talent level (not saying they aren't talented, only his elite play made them look even MORE talented). With Rodgers he was everything you wanted in a QB.. and more- he was a true MVP, elite talent.

Whereas when I see Matt Ryan play, I see a guy who seems to make his talent look as talented as they are- which I don't fault him for, but why should I reward him? I see a guy who is making the plays you'd expect out of a very good QB, should he make a probowl? Definitely. But will I subscribe to the theory that he's worth an MVP award (ATM)- the most prestigious player award given- heck no. I see a guy who is everything you want in a QB... but that's it, he's a franchise passer, he's a probowler... but not an MVP IMO.

So who is worth it? AJ Green is doing his best Calvin Johnson impression. He's accounting for 38.5% of Cincy's passing yds and 37.5% of their passing touchdowns. That's nearly 40% of their passing attack is directly relate-able to his impact- statistically. The Bengals are 3-1 after many thought they'd take a step-back. I'd argue that ATM, no offensive player is more valuable to his team than AJ Green. And as opposed to others arguing about WHY I'm not choosing Matt Ryan for MVP, why not argue against my pick of AJ Green as MVP? Because that's the only thing that really matters- I've defended why I didn't pick Ryan... as far as I'm concerned if someone has a problem with my selection and not my non-selection... argue against that.


You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.
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flash22


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
flash22 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.


or maybe its the lack of playoff victories or season long consistency...but yea hes been real good the first 4 weeks.


Are you kidding me? Those are AMAZING stats OUTSTANDING. But they're all erased and he's no good because he doesn't have a playoff win? That's most horrible, stupid, dumb, cliche, lazy argument i've ever heard in my entire life.

Seriously, do you people weigh playoff wins more than ACTUAL SKILL? Yes, the answer is yes. If any of you say otherwise you're lying to yourself.


Nobody is denying that Ryan has had an amazing first 4 weeks. The question lies in whether he can keep it up or not. He has never proven that he can maintain this level of play over the coarse of a season. When he does he will get proper respect.

Remember Rodgers breakout year? most people took a wait and see approach before announcing him the next elite QB. He was able to consistently put up great numbers, lets see if Ryan can do the same.
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.

When I see Rodgers and Brady play, I see them dominate a game and elevate their receivers. When I see Matt play, I see him playing okay, not controlling the game, not losing the game, and just doing his best to get the ball to his playmakers so they can win the game for him.

Matt is a good QB, there is no denying that. He's still not elite. It is a heck of a lot easier to look great when you have two elite #1 prototypical WRs, solid #3 WR, a good OL, a HOF TE, and two above average RBs all the while playing in a cozy dome.

Lets also not forget who he's played. The Chiefs and Panthers have been completely inept in the pass defense, and the Chargers and Broncos are both middle of the pack teams. It's not like he's lighting up the Niners and Texans

This is probably the only point that we've ever seen... and possibly will ever see eye to eye on.... Wink Laughing


Clearly neither you have seen he falcons play in the last two yearsif you don't think he controls the game. He calls the plays about 35-40% of the game, basically whenever they're in the no huddle.

Everything else seems to be preconceived notions. The statement Brady and Rodgers elevate the wrs around Them will Ryan simply gets the ball to his playmakers is nonsense. There was a thread not too long ago that showed that more than half of Brady's Ypc came by yac. Where does that fit in?
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:

You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.

Actually it doesn't boil down to that at all. It boils down to AJ Green being more valuable to his offense IMO.

If Green goes down the Bengals lose their explosive edge, their offense becomes one dimensional where teams can stop the run, and their defense isn't stout enough to win games for them. Dalton is good, but a receiving core with Hawkins, Tate, Binns- isn't going to get it done... especially not with that interior line. So in short, if AJ Green goes down, I think an argument could be made that the Bengals could be picking top 10 in the draft. But with him, he gives them the explosive playmaking ability (meshing with the other receiving weapons well) that makes them a true playoff contender.

With the Falcons, if Matt Ryan goes down... that offense would regress, most definitely. I never argued that it wouldn't. I stated that he displays the true talent of all his weapons. An inferior QB wouldn't. Would Luke McCown be able to carry the Falcons to the playoffs? Likely not, but he is a QB with a decent amount of playing experience. Sure he was bad in Jacksonville, but he's not a franchise QB... and the Jags have probably had one of the worst WR units in the NFL for... a long time now. He had some solid play for the Bucs years ago when he had a little more talent to work with. As an advanced veteran, with a competent running game (18th) and two elite level WRs, an above average #3, and Tony Gonzalez... I certainly think McCown has enough talent to game manage that offense to some wins. I could easily see him having that talent play .500 ball.

So indeed, I view AJ Green to be more valuable to his team's success than Matt Ryan. And again you haven't argued against my AJ Green selection, you simply stated, "he's not more valuable"... where is the pudding?
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.


Can you go one thread without needlessly whining about how disrespected Matt Ryan and the Falcons are?

Hell, even when people are talking highly about them, you complain.

Get over it.

Agreed. I mean, really. You try giving props to someone that doesn't wear a Falcons uni in GEN and apparently you're in the Salem Witch Trials back in the 1600s.

It's becoming ridiculously annoying. But whatevs....
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

El ramster wrote:
Tooki wrote:
WhackyPlague wrote:
El ramster wrote:
Matt Ryan
Torrey Smith
JJ Watt
RG/// But GZ man Laughing
Janaris Jenkins has been very good.


what award are you trying to give to Torrey Smith? Laughing


Best Smith Award Laughing



Offensive... Dude has been heating up. If he ends up with 15+ TD's I can see it.. He's been balling lately..

Btw, Chiefs fans are relentless Laughing JC for OPOY Laughing
No way Jose.. You need to win. That's like Kemba avg 30+ on the
LOLCATS.. You should not award a player on a bad team.


LOL...Zero Chiefs fans have picked him, it was two or three other guys....regardless, that kind of award has nothing to do with wins.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:

You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.

Actually it doesn't boil down to that at all. It boils down to AJ Green being more valuable to his offense IMO.

If Green goes down the Bengals lose their explosive edge, their offense becomes one dimensional where teams can stop the run, and their defense isn't stout enough to win games for them. Dalton is good, but a receiving core with Hawkins, Tate, Binns- isn't going to get it done... especially not with that interior line. So in short, if AJ Green goes down, I think an argument could be made that the Bengals could be picking top 10 in the draft. But with him, he gives them the explosive playmaking ability (meshing with the other receiving weapons well) that makes them a true playoff contender.

With the Falcons, if Matt Ryan goes down... that offense would regress, most definitely. I never argued that it wouldn't. I stated that he displays the true talent of all his weapons. An inferior QB wouldn't. Would Luke McCown be able to carry the Falcons to the playoffs? Likely not, but he is a QB with a decent amount of playing experience. Sure he was bad in Jacksonville, but he's not a franchise QB... and the Jags have probably had one of the worst WR units in the NFL for... a long time now. He had some solid play for the Bucs years ago when he had a little more talent to work with. As an advanced veteran, with a competent running game (18th) and two elite level WRs, an above average #3, and Tony Gonzalez... I certainly think McCown has enough talent to game manage that offense to some wins. I could easily see him having that talent play .500 ball.

So indeed, I view AJ Green to be more valuable to his team's success than Matt Ryan. And again you haven't argued against my AJ Green selection, you simply stated, "he's not more valuable"... where is the pudding?


I disagree. I think you are under-rating Jay Gruden and the WCO. While losing AJ Green would be a big blow, our offense didn't look that bad last season when Green was hurt. And for some odd reason, Dalton throws a better deep ball to receivers not named AJ Green.

Matt Ryan definitely is more valuable to his offense. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his stellar play so far this season...
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IDOG_det wrote:
Should see some Orlovsky vs Manziel this week in the battle of "who's less aware of their surroundings"

Orlovsky has too much experience here. Manziel doesn't stand a chance.
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lionslicer


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:

You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.

Actually it doesn't boil down to that at all. It boils down to AJ Green being more valuable to his offense IMO.

If Green goes down the Bengals lose their explosive edge, their offense becomes one dimensional where teams can stop the run, and their defense isn't stout enough to win games for them. Dalton is good, but a receiving core with Hawkins, Tate, Binns- isn't going to get it done... especially not with that interior line. So in short, if AJ Green goes down, I think an argument could be made that the Bengals could be picking top 10 in the draft. But with him, he gives them the explosive playmaking ability (meshing with the other receiving weapons well) that makes them a true playoff contender.

With the Falcons, if Matt Ryan goes down... that offense would regress, most definitely. I never argued that it wouldn't. I stated that he displays the true talent of all his weapons. An inferior QB wouldn't. Would Luke McCown be able to carry the Falcons to the playoffs? Likely not, but he is a QB with a decent amount of playing experience. Sure he was bad in Jacksonville, but he's not a franchise QB... and the Jags have probably had one of the worst WR units in the NFL for... a long time now. He had some solid play for the Bucs years ago when he had a little more talent to work with. As an advanced veteran, with a competent running game (18th) and two elite level WRs, an above average #3, and Tony Gonzalez... I certainly think McCown has enough talent to game manage that offense to some wins. I could easily see him having that talent play .500 ball.

So indeed, I view AJ Green to be more valuable to his team's success than Matt Ryan. And again you haven't argued against my AJ Green selection, you simply stated, "he's not more valuable"... where is the pudding?


I disagree. I think you are under-rating Jay Gruden and the WCO. While losing AJ Green would be a big blow, our offense didn't look that bad last season when Green was hurt. And for some odd reason, Dalton throws a better deep ball to receivers not named AJ Green.

Matt Ryan definitely is more valuable to his offense. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his stellar play so far this season...


Ben has the same problem with Mike Wallace. He tends to overcompensate for Wallace's speed and overthrow him, or he underestimates him and drastically under throws him.

Yet he's fine throwing deep to anyone else.
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ATL Jones Bro3


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.

When I see Rodgers and Brady play, I see them dominate a game and elevate their receivers. When I see Matt play, I see him playing okay, not controlling the game, not losing the game, and just doing his best to get the ball to his playmakers so they can win the game for him.

Matt is a good QB, there is no denying that. He's still not elite. It is a heck of a lot easier to look great when you have two elite #1 prototypical WRs, solid #3 WR, a good OL, a HOF TE, and two above average RBs all the while playing in a cozy dome.

Lets also not forget who he's played. The Chiefs and Panthers have been completely inept in the pass defense, and the Chargers and Broncos are both middle of the pack teams. It's not like he's lighting up the Niners and Texans


Yeah but if he wins a superbowl 2 years ago and is the exact same player today he's elite... It's terrible logic. People on this forum are way to caught up in what the media preaches about QBs.

Also you must not have watched him this year. He's looked pretty dominant and has put the entire offense on his back pretty much. Michael turner outside of last week hasn't been that impressive.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.

When I see Rodgers and Brady play, I see them dominate a game and elevate their receivers. When I see Matt play, I see him playing okay, not controlling the game, not losing the game, and just doing his best to get the ball to his playmakers so they can win the game for him.

Matt is a good QB, there is no denying that. He's still not elite. It is a heck of a lot easier to look great when you have two elite #1 prototypical WRs, solid #3 WR, a good OL, a HOF TE, and two above average RBs all the while playing in a cozy dome.

Lets also not forget who he's played. The Chiefs and Panthers have been completely inept in the pass defense, and the Chargers and Broncos are both middle of the pack teams. It's not like he's lighting up the Niners and Texans


Yeah but if he wins a superbowl 2 years ago and is the exact same player today he's elite... It's terrible logic. People on this forum are way to caught up in what the media preaches about QBs.

Also you must not have watched him this year. He's looked pretty dominant and has put the entire offense on his back pretty much. Michael turner outside of last week hasn't been that impressive.


Explain to me exactly how throwing the ball 60 yards and relying on the defensive back FAILING is "putting the team on his back?" I'm confused on that topic.

If you want to see someone putting a team on his back, I'll show you:


Matt Ryan has played "game manager" very well this year, much like Alex Smith has; the only difference is that Matt Ryan has the best offensive weapons in the NFL, even better than Green Bay. He just needs to give those playmakers an opportunity and more times than not, they'll make a play for him. That's the difference I see between Matt Ryan and guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Eli Manning, etc.

But I mean if you want to give him MVP SOLELY because of his stats; then go right ahead.
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ATL Jones Bro3


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
No people just don't think Ryan is good because it's trendy. That's literally why. He's easily been the best QB in the league, but apparently he's not that good. Honestly hes on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INT's, on 70% passing. BUT EVERY OTHER QB CAN DO THAT HE'S NOT THAT GOOD.

When I see Rodgers and Brady play, I see them dominate a game and elevate their receivers. When I see Matt play, I see him playing okay, not controlling the game, not losing the game, and just doing his best to get the ball to his playmakers so they can win the game for him.

Matt is a good QB, there is no denying that. He's still not elite. It is a heck of a lot easier to look great when you have two elite #1 prototypical WRs, solid #3 WR, a good OL, a HOF TE, and two above average RBs all the while playing in a cozy dome.

Lets also not forget who he's played. The Chiefs and Panthers have been completely inept in the pass defense, and the Chargers and Broncos are both middle of the pack teams. It's not like he's lighting up the Niners and Texans


Yeah but if he wins a superbowl 2 years ago and is the exact same player today he's elite... It's terrible logic. People on this forum are way to caught up in what the media preaches about QBs.

Also you must not have watched him this year. He's looked pretty dominant and has put the entire offense on his back pretty much. Michael turner outside of last week hasn't been that impressive.


Explain to me exactly how throwing the ball 60 yards and relying on the defensive back FAILING is "putting the team on his back?" I'm confused on that topic.

If you want to see someone putting a team on his back, I'll show you:


Matt Ryan has played "game manager" very well this year, much like Alex Smith has; the only difference is that Matt Ryan has the best offensive weapons in the NFL, even better than Green Bay. He just needs to give those playmakers an opportunity and more times than not, they'll make a play for him. That's the difference I see between Matt Ryan and guys like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Eli Manning, etc.

But I mean if you want to give him MVP SOLELY because of his stats; then go right ahead.


Lmao this game manager is doing what Rodgers, Brees, Brady, FLACCO, and insert whatever QB you want CAN'T DO. He's definitely doing well. Never heard of a game manager on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INTs. If Ryan hasn't carried this offense then who has? You really really hate Ryan and I hope you lose you're Flacco bias 1 day you "expert".

And what does 1 play have to do with carrying the offense the entire year? He still made the play, he still won the game, he still made the correct read. Seriously like imagine if Cam Newton was playing as well as Ryan holy crap would this forum implode with "HE'S ELITE HE'S A GOD". Newton can't even win a regular season game.

Then you fault a player for having weapons? How the hell is that his fault? God i hate you're logic that you have to play with Brandon Banks as your #1 reciever to be considered good.

You just REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY hate that the Ravens don't have Ryan and the Falcons don't have Flacco. You're saying he's on Alex Smith's level? You're terrible.

The fact is Ryan has to do more than any QB in the history of football to gain respect. He could go out there and throw for 5k yards 50 TD's with 5 INTs but he's still average untill he wins in the playoffs. APPARENTLY PLAYOFF SUCCESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ACTUAL SKILL. When did we stop ranking players off skill?
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:

You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.

Actually it doesn't boil down to that at all. It boils down to AJ Green being more valuable to his offense IMO.

If Green goes down the Bengals lose their explosive edge, their offense becomes one dimensional where teams can stop the run, and their defense isn't stout enough to win games for them. Dalton is good, but a receiving core with Hawkins, Tate, Binns- isn't going to get it done... especially not with that interior line. So in short, if AJ Green goes down, I think an argument could be made that the Bengals could be picking top 10 in the draft. But with him, he gives them the explosive playmaking ability (meshing with the other receiving weapons well) that makes them a true playoff contender.

With the Falcons, if Matt Ryan goes down... that offense would regress, most definitely. I never argued that it wouldn't. I stated that he displays the true talent of all his weapons. An inferior QB wouldn't. Would Luke McCown be able to carry the Falcons to the playoffs? Likely not, but he is a QB with a decent amount of playing experience. Sure he was bad in Jacksonville, but he's not a franchise QB... and the Jags have probably had one of the worst WR units in the NFL for... a long time now. He had some solid play for the Bucs years ago when he had a little more talent to work with. As an advanced veteran, with a competent running game (18th) and two elite level WRs, an above average #3, and Tony Gonzalez... I certainly think McCown has enough talent to game manage that offense to some wins. I could easily see him having that talent play .500 ball.

So indeed, I view AJ Green to be more valuable to his team's success than Matt Ryan. And again you haven't argued against my AJ Green selection, you simply stated, "he's not more valuable"... where is the pudding?


I disagree. I think you are under-rating Jay Gruden and the WCO. While losing AJ Green would be a big blow, our offense didn't look that bad last season when Green was hurt. And for some odd reason, Dalton throws a better deep ball to receivers not named AJ Green.

Matt Ryan definitely is more valuable to his offense. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his stellar play so far this season...

I don't understand how I'm not giving him enough credit. Simply because I don't view him as the MVP of the league? I said he's a very good QB. But is he the most valuable player? Well I'd argue that he isn't.

Green was out for all but one full game last year- against the Ravens... and two if you count the game against the Steelers where he went down. I don't think that's a large enough sample size to determine that Green doesn't mean a lot to the passing attack. You take Green away for a long stretch and suddenly teams are analyzing the strengths/weaknesses of your other WRs and the best corners are matching up against Hawkins. There is no longer bracketing of AJ Green so your other receivers will now be seeing the over the top attention... and the deep ball becomes nill (or rather much less effective). It'd disrupt the flow of the entire passing attack. I'm not arguing that Dalton couldn't play well, but what I AM arguing is team success. The Bengals without Green don't have enough offense to beat the better teams in the league and their advantage over the middle of the pack to worse teams in the league isn't as great without their same overall offensive explosiveness.

Now sure, the same with the Falcons, McCown will be gameplaned against. But he also has receivers that can make him look better than he is. Inept passes will now turn into 3rd down completions. I never said McCown will be a star leading the Falcons to the playoffs, but they surely would have the ability to play .500 ball with the talent they have. Whether that could make the playoffs in the competitive NFC- I'm not sure.

But whatevs, this witch hunt can continue... I just won't be a part of it. It's sort of funny. I can't vote a receiver on pace for over 1700 yds receiving and double figure TDs as 'MY' MVP candidate for the quarter pole. Who knew? Confused
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:

Lmao this game manager is doing what Rodgers, Brees, Brady, FLACCO, and insert whatever QB you want CAN'T DO. He's definitely doing well. Never heard of a game manager on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INTs. If Ryan hasn't carried this offense then who has? You really really hate Ryan and I hope you lose you're Flacco bias 1 day you "expert".

And what does 1 play have to do with carrying the offense the entire year? He still made the play, he still won the game, he still made the correct read. Seriously like imagine if Cam Newton was playing as well as Ryan holy crap would this forum implode with "HE'S ELITE HE'S A GOD". Newton can't even win a regular season game.

Then you fault a player for having weapons? How the hell is that his fault? God i hate you're logic that you have to play with Brandon Banks as your #1 reciever to be considered good.

You just REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY hate that the Ravens don't have Ryan and the Falcons don't have Flacco. You're saying he's on Alex Smith's level? You're terrible.

The fact is Ryan has to do more than any QB in the history of football to gain respect. He could go out there and throw for 5k yards 50 TD's with 5 INTs but he's still average untill he wins in the playoffs. APPARENTLY PLAYOFF SUCCESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ACTUAL SKILL. When did we stop ranking players off skill?

Why does everything come back to Flacco. Now while I disagree with SnA in terms of Matt Ryan = Alex Smith or the game manager moniker, I don't get what Flacco has to do with this. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are both very good QBs in this league.

And if anything Matt Ryan gets a lot of credit. I can probably count on one hand the amount of guys who DON'T have him as their quarter pole MVP in this thread (probably in real life too). How is that underrating the guy or not giving him his due respect?

In terms of which I'd rather have? I like the Unibomber, Joe Flacco... just because I feel he has the better physical tools, but I'm not going to act like if I were a Falcons fan in some distorted universe (or Matt Ryan was a Raven) I wouldn't be on the other side. Both are really good QBs on a similar level IMO... so I really don't see why you think most Ravens fans have a bias against Ryan because we have Flacco... that'd be like us hating the Chiefs because they have Jamaal Charles and we have Ray Rice... two RBs that went in the 2008 draft... and because both of them became good runners on a similar level of play.

Why should I dislike Ryan? If anything if Ravens fans are going to be biased against a QB it'll be against Big Ben or Tom Brady... you know, two QBs on teams that our team ACTUALLY has a rivalry with. Tbqh... Matt Ryan is pretty irrelevant. Do I want Flacco to outperform Ryan and a host of other QBs so that he can become an elite QB? Sure. But Ryan is no different an obstacle to the other QBs ahead of Flacco in my eyes. Flacco just simply needs to get better... and that's all that matters in that regard IMO.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blah blah blah matt ryan being called elite reminds me of all the triple crown candidates in baseball. a guy hits the stitching off a ball the first month and all of a sudden you hear "this guy is the next triple crown winner." when in reality all that happened is the guy had a great month. people have great months all the time.

ryan is playing well but he's not elite and has almost no shot to win MVP at the end of the year. I bet if you dug up his game logs you could find a four game stretch of his where he played as well or even better than he is now. if his current 4 game stretch game in the middle of the year no one would be saying he'll win the MVP.
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