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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 47375
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Why should I dislike Ryan? If anything if Ravens fans are going to be biased against a QB it'll be against Big Ben or Tom Brady... you know, two QBs on teams that our team ACTUALLY has a rivalry with. Tbqh... Matt Ryan is pretty irrelevant. .


They were drafted in the same draft.

Im not saying that matters to you, but thats the reason they get compared to alot. Same reason why Eli/Ben/Rivers are compared so often. Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers, etc.... and its also the reason why you have fans on opposing sides who bash the other QB....like I see alot with Flacco and Ryan.

Flacco is usually on the receiving end though. I do think Ryan is better, but not by the margin some make it out to be.
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:

You really don't have an argument? It basically boils down to "we'll, IMO Ryan doesn't make the players around him better". How is that quantified, how is that judged?

As far as your Aj green selection, can you honestly answer that he is more valuable than Matt Ryan? Keepin mind we have Luke mcnoen and Dominique Davis as backups.

Actually it doesn't boil down to that at all. It boils down to AJ Green being more valuable to his offense IMO.

If Green goes down the Bengals lose their explosive edge, their offense becomes one dimensional where teams can stop the run, and their defense isn't stout enough to win games for them. Dalton is good, but a receiving core with Hawkins, Tate, Binns- isn't going to get it done... especially not with that interior line. So in short, if AJ Green goes down, I think an argument could be made that the Bengals could be picking top 10 in the draft. But with him, he gives them the explosive playmaking ability (meshing with the other receiving weapons well) that makes them a true playoff contender.

With the Falcons, if Matt Ryan goes down... that offense would regress, most definitely. I never argued that it wouldn't. I stated that he displays the true talent of all his weapons. An inferior QB wouldn't. Would Luke McCown be able to carry the Falcons to the playoffs? Likely not, but he is a QB with a decent amount of playing experience. Sure he was bad in Jacksonville, but he's not a franchise QB... and the Jags have probably had one of the worst WR units in the NFL for... a long time now. He had some solid play for the Bucs years ago when he had a little more talent to work with. As an advanced veteran, with a competent running game (18th) and two elite level WRs, an above average #3, and Tony Gonzalez... I certainly think McCown has enough talent to game manage that offense to some wins. I could easily see him having that talent play .500 ball.

So indeed, I view AJ Green to be more valuable to his team's success than Matt Ryan. And again you haven't argued against my AJ Green selection, you simply stated, "he's not more valuable"... where is the pudding?


I disagree. I think you are under-rating Jay Gruden and the WCO. While losing AJ Green would be a big blow, our offense didn't look that bad last season when Green was hurt. And for some odd reason, Dalton throws a better deep ball to receivers not named AJ Green.

Matt Ryan definitely is more valuable to his offense. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his stellar play so far this season...

I don't understand how I'm not giving him enough credit. Simply because I don't view him as the MVP of the league? I said he's a very good QB. But is he the most valuable player? Well I'd argue that he isn't.

Green was out for all but one full game last year- against the Ravens... and two if you count the game against the Steelers where he went down. I don't think that's a large enough sample size to determine that Green doesn't mean a lot to the passing attack. You take Green away for a long stretch and suddenly teams are analyzing the strengths/weaknesses of your other WRs and the best corners are matching up against Hawkins. There is no longer bracketing of AJ Green so your other receivers will now be seeing the over the top attention... and the deep ball becomes nill (or rather much less effective). It'd disrupt the flow of the entire passing attack. I'm not arguing that Dalton couldn't play well, but what I AM arguing is team success. The Bengals without Green don't have enough offense to beat the better teams in the league and their advantage over the middle of the pack to worse teams in the league isn't as great without their same overall offensive explosiveness.

Now sure, the same with the Falcons, McCown will be gameplaned against. But he also has receivers that can make him look better than he is. Inept passes will now turn into 3rd down completions. I never said McCown will be a star leading the Falcons to the playoffs, but they surely would have the ability to play .500 ball with the talent they have. Whether that could make the playoffs in the competitive NFC- I'm not sure.

But whatevs, this witch hunt can continue... I just won't be a part of it. It's sort of funny. I can't vote a receiver on pace for over 1700 yds receiving and double figure TDs as 'MY' MVP candidate for the quarter pole. Who knew? Confused


Again your argument isn't based on any facts but solely yyour opinIon. Aj green is on pace for 1700 yards and 12tds. Ryan is on pace for 44 td's and 8 picks, that's pretty clearly more impressive. Even if you don't see it that way, a qb will always have the advantage over a wr, as they should
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Why should I dislike Ryan? If anything if Ravens fans are going to be biased against a QB it'll be against Big Ben or Tom Brady... you know, two QBs on teams that our team ACTUALLY has a rivalry with. Tbqh... Matt Ryan is pretty irrelevant. .


They were drafted in the same draft.

Im not saying that matters to you, but thats the reason they get compared to alot. Same reason why Eli/Ben/Rivers are compared so often. Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers, etc.... and its also the reason why you have fans on opposing sides who bash the other QB....like I see alot with Flacco and Ryan.

Flacco is usually on the receiving end though. I do think Ryan is better, but not by the margin some make it out to be.

I get that they will forever be compared, but I don't see why.. in a thread devoted to quarter pole results... where I mention AJ Green as my MVP candidate and where other Ravens fans list... (Matt Ryan?)... why the comparison is brought up. It's almost like whoever this guy is, he's a distant relative to Skip Bayless... only instead of HAVING delusions of Tebow in every broadcast... this guy has to list Ryan-Flacco in each post. Heck, give it another week... and I probably WILL hate Matt Ryan. Laughing

GSUeagles14 wrote:
Again your argument isn't based on any facts but solely yyour opinIon. Aj green is on pace for 1700 yards and 12tds. Ryan is on pace for 44 td's and 8 picks, that's pretty clearly more impressive. Even if you don't see it that way, a qb will always have the advantage over a wr, as they should.

1. This is your thread and here is what you ask at the beginning...
Quote:
Now that the season is basically a quarter way done, who are YOUR award winners? MVP, OPOY, DPOY, ROTY...

So clearly you started this thread with the idea that opinions were going to be given on this subject. Had you wanted this thread to say Matt Ryan is the only choice for MVP... then perhaps you should have excluded that award mandating, "because Matt Ryan is clearly the only deserved recipient. His stats are awesome. And he knows how to tell people how to get off of HIS field. And don't dare defy my opinion..." Laughing

2. Also there are no "facts" here regarding who is or isn't the MVP. There are only statistics. Stats are evidence. These stats account for things that happened on the field. But facts can only tell part of the story- they are only part of the evidence. A FACT would be the reality. The reality of the MVP and who it ACTUALLY is won't be decided until the end of the season. If Matt Ryan is indeed the guy who wins the award after 16 games, THEN it will be a fact... and I'd simply be spouting an opinion about why I thought "y" player deserved it more... if indeed I felt another player was more deserved at that point.

So really, you are arguing nothing different than what I am arguing. You are arguing your opinion sprinkled with facts... the same as I. Only IMO, 1700 yds is more significant than 4650 yds for a QB... to me a pace of over 1700 yds for a receiver would be comparable to about... 5,200 yds passing. Only 4 receivers have had over 1700 yds in a season... Whereas 4648 is 19th... though with 7 QBs on pace for over that number this season (IIRC) than that would be roughly 26th by seasons end.

Now I'll admit that the touchdown numbers are clearly impressive, but I still find those receiving numbers that Green is at pace for (right now) are more impressive. Consider that 44 tds is 6th-T all time. But let's also consider that in the past decade 44 TDs has been surpassed FOUR times by QBs... just in a decade. Whereas the 1700 yds has been surpassed just ONCE in the past decade and the two times before that happened nearly two decades ago by Jerry Rice and Isaac Bruce (1995) in the same season (which is pretty sick). The other guy to do it was back in the 1960s... Clearly 1700 yds is the rarer stat accomplishment.

You'd probably have to compare Ryan's yardage with Green's receiving TDs. The yardage is more impressive than Green's current pace of 12 TD receptions (historically speaking). 12 TDs isn't exactly rare for a receiver (84th-T), but there has been a lot more inflation of receiver records than QB records due to more starting receivers, more receivers getting opportunities, as well as TEs and other positions being listed in the rankings. So all in all, I'd be inclined to call this a push.

So I'd be inclined to say that statistically speaking, Green's number paces are more rare achievements than what Matt Ryan is on pace for. I feel my argument in this area is reasonable enough given the historical relevance I've provided.

I also believe, as I stated earlier, that the Bengals considering their 3-1 start to the season... if they were to be forced to go without Green for the rest of the season aren't a playoff team and could be in contention for a top 10-15 pick... whereas on the flipside, I think the Falcons without Ryan, though with their elite offensive weapons and solid defensive unit... could still creep their way into the playoffs behind a .500 effort from the backup Luke McCown (10-6 record, somewhat similar circumstances to the Texans with TJ Yates.. switching elite offensive pieces for elite defense pieces).

Then when I consider AJ Green's ability in comparison to his peers vs. Matt Ryan's ability in comparison to his peers, I feel like Green is the better player. So if ever there was a time where a WR could surpass a QB for an MVP award, I think I make a strong enough argument for THIS being that time. You and the majority opinion feel otherwise, but let's not act like I'm just coming up with my reasoning from out of thin air and have nothing to back my argument- no reason to differ from group think. I've thought about it... and I see good enough reason for my choice of Green over Ryan (who was considered enough to be mentioned). So again, if you don't want differing opinions from your own, then don't ask for them- just keep it moving. It's not the end of the world.
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Why should I dislike Ryan? If anything if Ravens fans are going to be biased against a QB it'll be against Big Ben or Tom Brady... you know, two QBs on teams that our team ACTUALLY has a rivalry with. Tbqh... Matt Ryan is pretty irrelevant. .


They were drafted in the same draft.

Im not saying that matters to you, but thats the reason they get compared to alot. Same reason why Eli/Ben/Rivers are compared so often. Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers, etc.... and its also the reason why you have fans on opposing sides who bash the other QB....like I see alot with Flacco and Ryan.

Flacco is usually on the receiving end though. I do think Ryan is better, but not by the margin some make it out to be.

I get that they will forever be compared, but I don't see why.. in a thread devoted to quarter pole results... where I mention AJ Green as my MVP candidate and where other Ravens fans list... (Matt Ryan?)... why the comparison is brought up. It's almost like whoever this guy is, he's a distant relative to Skip Bayless... only instead of HAVING delusions of Tebow in every broadcast... this guy has to list Ryan-Flacco in each post. Heck, give it another week... and I probably WILL hate Matt Ryan. Laughing

GSUeagles14 wrote:
Again your argument isn't based on any facts but solely yyour opinIon. Aj green is on pace for 1700 yards and 12tds. Ryan is on pace for 44 td's and 8 picks, that's pretty clearly more impressive. Even if you don't see it that way, a qb will always have the advantage over a wr, as they should.

1. This is your thread and here is what you ask at the beginning...
Quote:
Now that the season is basically a quarter way done, who are YOUR award winners? MVP, OPOY, DPOY, ROTY...

So clearly you started this thread with the idea that opinions were going to be given on this subject. Had you wanted this thread to say Matt Ryan is the only choice for MVP... then perhaps you should have excluded that award mandating, "because Matt Ryan is clearly the only deserved recipient. His stats are awesome. And he knows how to tell people how to get off of HIS field. And don't dare defy my opinion..." Laughing

2. Also there are no "facts" here regarding who is or isn't the MVP. There are only statistics. Stats are evidence. These stats account for things that happened on the field. But facts can only tell part of the story- they are only part of the evidence. A FACT would be the reality. The reality of the MVP and who it ACTUALLY is won't be decided until the end of the season. If Matt Ryan is indeed the guy who wins the award after 16 games, THEN it will be a fact... and I'd simply be spouting an opinion about why I thought "y" player deserved it more... if indeed I felt another player was more deserved at that point.

So really, you are arguing nothing different than what I am arguing. You are arguing your opinion sprinkled with facts... the same as I. Only IMO, 1700 yds is more significant than 4650 yds for a QB... to me a pace of over 1700 yds for a receiver would be comparable to about... 5,200 yds passing. Only 4 receivers have had over 1700 yds in a season... Whereas 4648 is 19th... though with 7 QBs on pace for over that number this season (IIRC) than that would be roughly 26th by seasons end.

Now I'll admit that the touchdown numbers are clearly impressive, but I still find those receiving numbers that Green is at pace for (right now) are more impressive. Consider that 44 tds is 6th-T all time. But let's also consider that in the past decade 44 TDs has been surpassed FOUR times by QBs... just in a decade. Whereas the 1700 yds has been surpassed just ONCE in the past decade and the two times before that happened nearly two decades ago by Jerry Rice and Isaac Bruce (1995) in the same season (which is pretty sick). The other guy to do it was back in the 1960s... Clearly 1700 yds is the rarer stat accomplishment.

You'd probably have to compare Ryan's yardage with Green's receiving TDs. The yardage is more impressive than Green's current pace of 12 TD receptions (historically speaking). 12 TDs isn't exactly rare for a receiver (84th-T), but there has been a lot more inflation of receiver records than QB records due to more starting receivers, more receivers getting opportunities, as well as TEs and other positions being listed in the rankings. So all in all, I'd be inclined to call this a push.

So I'd be inclined to say that statistically speaking, Green's number paces are more rare achievements than what Matt Ryan is on pace for. I feel my argument in this area is reasonable enough given the historical relevance I've provided.

I also believe, as I stated earlier, that the Bengals considering their 3-1 start to the season... if they were to be forced to go without Green for the rest of the season aren't a playoff team and could be in contention for a top 10-15 pick... whereas on the flipside, I think the Falcons without Ryan, though with their elite offensive weapons and solid defensive unit... could still creep their way into the playoffs behind a .500 effort from the backup Luke McCown (10-6 record, somewhat similar circumstances to the Texans with TJ Yates.. switching elite offensive pieces for elite defense pieces).

Then when I consider AJ Green's ability in comparison to his peers vs. Matt Ryan's ability in comparison to his peers, I feel like Green is the better player. So if ever there was a time where a WR could surpass a QB for an MVP award, I think I make a strong enough argument for THIS being that time. You and the majority opinion feel otherwise, but let's not act like I'm just coming up with my reasoning from out of thin air and have nothing to back my argument- no reason to differ from group think. I've thought about it... and I see good enough reason for my choice of Green over Ryan (who was considered enough to be mentioned). So again, if you don't want differing opinions from your own, then don't ask for them- just keep it moving. It's not the end of the world.


I have no problem with someone one not picking Ryan if it makes sense. Aj green does not.

It seems your basing your argument around greens projection of 1700 yards, yet that's many wrs that have put up just as impressive if not more so than green that didn't come close to sniffing an MVP. Can you even name two QB's putting up the #'s Ryan is and lost to someone else other than a qb? How many QB's have ever put up the td to int ratio that Ryan is now? And the day, a qb is much, much more important than a wr.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Ryan-NFC OPOM
Tim Jennings-NFC DPOM
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?

And Matt Ryan isn't leading the league in passing yds per game (7th-T) or touchdowns (2nd). Big Ben also has a comparable TD/INT ratio of 8-1... so what's your point?

I never argued that stats alone were my only gauge in this discussion. But the more you post, the more it seems to become obvious to me that you only posted this thread with the intent to prop up Matt Ryan.

Because if it only makes sense for a QB to win this award... in a thread that's not IRL... and you believe that Ryan is the best QB this year, then logic would lead to one possible belief that maybe your intent wasn't to hear the different opinions on these awards, but simply to hear "MVP: Matt Ryan". Perhaps those three words in a sentence together fills you with unbridled pleasure. I wonder, if I'd chosen to name as my defensive MVP someone other than JJ Watt, would you have been as incensed.. if at all.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATL Jones Bro3 wrote:
Lmao this game manager is doing what Rodgers, Brees, Brady, FLACCO, and insert whatever QB you want CAN'T DO. He's definitely doing well. Never heard of a game manager on pace for 4700 yards, 44 TD's, 8 INTs. If Ryan hasn't carried this offense then who has? You really really hate Ryan and I hope you lose you're Flacco bias 1 day you "expert".

What can't they do, exactly? Have a great 4 game span against mediocre teams? I'm sure they can, and I'm sure they all have. He's a game manager in the sense that most of his throws are short, easy completion, low risk throws. Look at his Yards Per Attempt for his career, it's shockingly low compared to "elite" QB's in this league.

And if you must know, I wasn't even a Flacco supporter until this year. You can ask ANYONE in the Ravens board; I've been one of the many people who thought Flacco wasn't a true franchise QB and such, so I don't understand where this "Flacco bias" comes in.


And what does 1 play have to do with carrying the offense the entire year? He still made the play, he still won the game, he still made the correct read. Seriously like imagine if Cam Newton was playing as well as Ryan holy crap would this forum implode with "HE'S ELITE HE'S A GOD". Newton can't even win a regular season game.

HE didn't make the play, Roddy White did. HE didn't win the game, the Falcons won the game (and if you want to be more technical, Matt Bryant did). I also wasn't aware that you could make reads when you send ONE WR out on a passing route, but hey good job, Matty Ice! Yeah, if Cam Newton was playing this well we would all be erupting, you want to know why? BECAUSE HIS OFFENSIVE WEAPONS SUCK AND HIS DEFENSE AND SPECIAL TEAMS ARE A JOKE. Cam Newton IS the Panthers' offense; Matt Ryan is NOT the Falcons' offense.

Then you fault a player for having weapons? How the hell is that his fault? God i hate you're logic that you have to play with Brandon Banks as your #1 reciever to be considered good.

Your*....It's not his fault, but before people go crowning him as having an MVP type of season just look at how many mismatches and weapons he has. You don't have to have Brandon Banks as your #1 WR to be considered good, we all know Matt Ryan is good, but he's not elite, and he's NOT the MVP of that team right now, or this league. When you have 3 guys who can CONSISTENTLY get open, like Gonzo, Julio and Roddy can, it makes playing QB as easy as playing catch.

You just REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY hate that the Ravens don't have Ryan and the Falcons don't have Flacco. You're saying he's on Alex Smith's level? You're terrible.

Where did I say he's on Alex Smith's level? Smith is an average QB at best. Matt Ryan is right with Flacco and Romo and Vick on the tier below elite. I said he's a game manager, much like Smith in the sense that they both throw safe passes lots of the time and revolve on their OTHER play makers to make plays FOR them. That's where the comparison ends.

The fact is Ryan has to do more than any QB in the history of football to gain respect. He could go out there and throw for 5k yards 50 TD's with 5 INTs but he's still average untill he wins in the playoffs. APPARENTLY PLAYOFF SUCCESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ACTUAL SKILL. When did we stop ranking players off skill?

Now I can bring in Joe Flacco, beacuse your first sentence is 100% false. Flacco is EASILY the most criticized "tier 2" QB in the NFL right now. Every time the Ravens win, the defense was the reason why. Every time the Ravens lose, it's all on Flacco. And sorry that playoff success is a DIRECT RESULT of skill. If you can't beat the good teams when it matters, you're going to be judged from that, and Matt Ryan has NEVER shown an ability to beat a playoff team in the playoffs. He can RARELY ever even win outside of his own dome!

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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?



Laughing I'm sorry mods....I really am for saying this...But you and ATL BRO have been OBNOXIOUS in this thread. Just completely obnoxious.

Quote:
I have no problem with someone one not picking Ryan if it makes sense. Aj green does not.


So basically what you're saying is...."I have no problem with anyone not picking Ryan as MVP because there is nobody else that is deserving of the award anyway".

If Green isn't a viable MVP candidate, then who is?

It's situations like these that are going to make people hate Matt Ryan a lot.
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Matt Ryan-NFC OPOM
Tim Jennings-NFC DPOM


JJ Watt DPOM

Boss.
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?

And Matt Ryan isn't leading the league in passing yds per game (7th-T) or touchdowns (2nd). Big Ben also has a comparable TD/INT ratio of 8-1... so what's your point?

I never argued that stats alone were my only gauge in this discussion. But the more you post, the more it seems to become obvious to me that you only posted this thread with the intent to prop up Matt Ryan.

Because if it only makes sense for a QB to win this award... in a thread that's not IRL... and you believe that Ryan is the best QB this year, then logic would lead to one possible belief that maybe your intent wasn't to hear the different opinions on these awards, but simply to hear "MVP: Matt Ryan". Perhaps those three words in a sentence together fills you with unbridled pleasure. I wonder, if I'd chosen to name as my defensive MVP someone other than JJ Watt, would you have been as incensed.. if at all.


You can keep on saying I only posted to see Ryan. Well, jj watt, has been mentioned, Rodgers has been mentioned, you just mentioned Ben. Where have I argued those.

If you don't like the facts, then maybe you should find a better view point. You can't go on and on about 1700 yards receiving and ignore hartline. Every time a part of your "argument" gets proven as invalid, it's " well you oly posted to see Matt Ryan's name" which is completely false. Big Ben definitely has a good case as does jj watt. I could easily see Peyton, Rodgers or Brady win as well. What I can't see is aj green winning and frankly you haven't had a good argument on why he would,
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?



Laughing I'm sorry mods....I really am for saying this...But you and ATL BRO have been OBNOXIOUS in this thread. Just completely obnoxious.

Quote:
I have no problem with someone one not picking Ryan if it makes sense. Aj green does not.


So basically what you're saying is...."I have no problem with anyone not picking Ryan as MVP because there is nobody else that is deserving of the award anyway".

If Green isn't a viable MVP candidate, then who is?

It's situations like these that are going to make people hate Matt Ryan a lot.


How have I been obnoxious? Because I don't think aj green deserves to win the MVP? Please elaborate
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
Also, green isn't even leading the league in yards, Brian hartline is. MVP?



Laughing I'm sorry mods....I really am for saying this...But you and ATL BRO have been OBNOXIOUS in this thread. Just completely obnoxious.

Quote:
I have no problem with someone one not picking Ryan if it makes sense. Aj green does not.


So basically what you're saying is...."I have no problem with anyone not picking Ryan as MVP because there is nobody else that is deserving of the award anyway".

If Green isn't a viable MVP candidate, then who is?

It's situations like these that are going to make people hate Matt Ryan a lot.


How have I been obnoxious? Because I don't think aj green deserves to win the MVP? Please elaborate


I agree you havent....cant say the same for the other guy he mentioned.

And I agree with you actually....not sure how anyone could put AJ Green over Ryan right now. The Falcons offense would fall apart without Matt Ryan....cant say the same about AJ Green in Cincy. It would effect it, but I think they have enough players there that they could at least maintain a decent level. After all....they have only really produced against garbage defenses anyway.

If we are merely talking about NFL Players of the MONTH....Matt Ryan gets my vote, for sure. 2nd would be JJ Watt....dude has been unreal.

As good as I think AJ Green is, he isnt doing anything special. Just playing top caliber ball, but I see nothing that even puts him in the convo for MVP.
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DrawABlank


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my eyes, Matt Ryan's season doesn't look entirely dissimilar to Tom Brady's 2010 MVP campaign (the last pre-lockout MVP):

65.9% comp
7.9 YPA
7.3 TD% / 1.0 TO%
111.0 passer rating

vs

69.4% comp
7.9 YPA
7.5 TD% / 1.4 TO%
112.1 passer rating

Ryan gets a slight boost from better rushing numbers, which help offset the slightly higher turnover rate and more frequent sacks.

Now that's not to say that this efficiency will necessarily continue (and remember Brady won 14 games, which would also be needed for Ryan). But I would find it hard to say that this production is somehow "unworthy" of being deemed MVP-calibre. Against a soft schedule. a 2010 replica is far from inconceivable.

---

BTW - AJ Green? Why? There's a legitimate case to be made for a non-QB being the best PLAYER, but it's JJ Watt, not Green. Watt is on an all-time dominant pace and with Indy's putrid OL in 2 of the last 3 weeks of the regular season, he may well be able to make an outstanding case.
But with only 2 non QB/RB's winning in 50 years (LT and Alan Page), history tends to force us towards the QB when there is some doubt.
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
To my eyes, Matt Ryan's season doesn't look entirely dissimilar to Tom Brady's 2010 MVP campaign (the last pre-lockout MVP):

65.9% comp
7.9 YPA
7.3 TD% / 1.0 TO%
111.0 passer rating

vs

69.4% comp
7.9 YPA
7.5 TD% / 1.4 TO%
112.1 passer rating

Ryan gets a slight boost from better rushing numbers, which help offset the slightly higher turnover rate and more frequent sacks.

Now that's not to say that this efficiency will necessarily continue (and remember Brady won 14 games, which would also be needed for Ryan). But I would find it hard to say that this production is somehow "unworthy" of being deemed MVP-calibre. Against a soft schedule. a 2010 replica is far from inconceivable.

---

BTW - AJ Green? Why? There's a legitimate case to be made for a non-QB being the best PLAYER, but it's JJ Watt, not Green. Watt is on an all-time dominant pace and with Indy's putrid OL in 2 of the last 3 weeks of the regular season, he may well be able to make an outstanding case.
But with only 2 non QB/RB's winning in 50 years (LT and Alan Page), history tends to force us towards the QB when there is some doubt.


Lets compare their supporting casts and situation.

Brady:
-8 rookies/second year players starting on defense (Mayo/Wilfork/Banta-Cain were only returning members IIRC)
-2 rookie TEs as primary receivers
-Welker playing on one leg
-2 UDFA running backs
-Put up historic TD:INT ratio
-Dumped Moss half way through the season, most experts said the offense would be dead in the water.
-Playing outdoors
-Elite division rival
-IIRC played 9 playoff teams
-Won 14 games

Ryan:
-Top 10 defense
-Michael Turner
-Roddy White
-Julio Jones
-Tony Gonzalez
-Playing outdoors
-Played 4 mediocre to horrible teams
-Won 4 games

Even if Matt continues his pace which is definitely possible given his weapons and plays in a dome, Bradys season easily trumps it.
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28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT.
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