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Russell2Bailey


Joined: 20 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious as to the number of pressures and QB hits he has. He's been better than this time a year ago. He's never been a good run defender and from this point on, probably our 2nd best pass rusher.
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Russell2Bailey


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention he's still on pace for 10 ish sacks. He's never been a good run defender and now he's catching flak for it in his 7th season. Laughing

He has more sacks than Trent Cole and Jason Babin.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
I just want to find more ways to get Elvis Dumervil on the bench where he belongs. He's been terrible this year.


My issue with Elvis has always been run defense. I was against the major extension he got, at least the dollar figures, for just that reason.

One unheralded part of Dumervil's game that used to be great was his ability to have holding penalties called on him. In past years I just seem to recall more holding penalties than before, but he's not getting them this year, and that was a major benefit he provided.

I don't know if he's just not trying or what, but if we wanna light a fire, let's get Ayers (who actually, I think, has played pretty well), or Jackson in there some more.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. Now I think he has done some good things on 3rd and long in obvious pass rushing situations, so I wouldn't say he has been terrible. But if you are talking about his all around game in relation to the money he is earning - well, he simply isn't worth the money lets put it that way.


I think he's been inconsistant at best in obvious passing situations. Really I see Elvis doing something positive a very small percentage of plays he's out there. He's being single-blocked almost always too. Except against the Raiders, Dumervil has been going against solid Left Tackles this year and even if you take out the running plays he's being outplayed by them.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
I just want to find more ways to get Elvis Dumervil on the bench where he belongs. He's been terrible this year.


We all see how Elvis hasn't performed up to the standard of play he has set over the years, but wow. If somebody other than you or Lomax had said this, I would have laughed but since you bring it up, it as me on alert.

Would you say Dumervil's struggles are scheme related? What did DA do with him in comparison to what JDR has been doing this season?


I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. Now I think he has done some good things on 3rd and long in obvious pass rushing situations, so I wouldn't say he has been terrible. But if you are talking about his all around game in relation to the money he is earning - well, he simply isn't worth the money lets put it that way.
Yup, and we really did not have another option at the time other than pay him because this we pre-Von. We really need Ayers in on running downs because he is, better against the run and it keeps Elvis fresh.

I'd rather have Elvis on the bench for some downs and come in and make an impact than have him out there every down and get worn down and ran on.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:

I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. .


That really becomes obvious against teams like the Pats. I didn't see the game, but checking the play by play it looks like the Pats started really teeing off on Elvis in the 2nd half. Big chunks off their LT.

Seems like a better base would have Jackson / Ayers on the field.

The Pats expose a need for 3 down players and Doom is not one. Neither is Mays.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:

I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. .


That really becomes obvious against teams like the Pats. I didn't see the game, but checking the play by play it looks like the Pats started really teeing off on Elvis in the 2nd half. Big chunks off their LT.

Seems like a better base would have Jackson / Ayers on the field.

The Pats expose a need for 3 down players and Doom is not one. Neither is Mays.


What hurt was the Pats no huddle fast paced offense. Even if we did sub Doom out with either one of them, Brady would clearly see less pressure and start ripping the ball to Welker or Gronk. I think JDR wanted Doom out there because the passing factors the Pats have to offer. But that is just my speculation.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iLikeDefense wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:

I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. .


That really becomes obvious against teams like the Pats. I didn't see the game, but checking the play by play it looks like the Pats started really teeing off on Elvis in the 2nd half. Big chunks off their LT.

Seems like a better base would have Jackson / Ayers on the field.

The Pats expose a need for 3 down players and Doom is not one. Neither is Mays.


What hurt was the Pats no huddle fast paced offense. Even if we did sub Doom out with either one of them, Brady would clearly see less pressure and start ripping the ball to Welker or Gronk. I think JDR wanted Doom out there because the passing factors the Pats have to offer. But that is just my speculation.

On of the things I liked about Jackson thie pre-season was his burst to the ball on passing downs. He showed the ability to either engage an OT and move him, or shoot a gap with his quickness.

Dooms not been lighting it up on 1 on 1's this year either. True, I'm on the Jackson fan club (probably the only member) but IMO he 's far better against the run and has shown real flashes in pass rushing.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
iLikeDefense wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:

I think the problem with Elvis is the same it has always been; he simply isn't a good enough run Defender in the NFL to be playing in base packages. .


That really becomes obvious against teams like the Pats. I didn't see the game, but checking the play by play it looks like the Pats started really teeing off on Elvis in the 2nd half. Big chunks off their LT.

Seems like a better base would have Jackson / Ayers on the field.

The Pats expose a need for 3 down players and Doom is not one. Neither is Mays.


What hurt was the Pats no huddle fast paced offense. Even if we did sub Doom out with either one of them, Brady would clearly see less pressure and start ripping the ball to Welker or Gronk. I think JDR wanted Doom out there because the passing factors the Pats have to offer. But that is just my speculation.

On of the things I liked about Jackson thie pre-season was his burst to the ball on passing downs. He showed the ability to either engage an OT and move him, or shoot a gap with his quickness.

Dooms not been lighting it up on 1 on 1's this year either. True, I'm on the Jackson fan club (probably the only member) but IMO he 's far better against the run and has shown real flashes in pass rushing.


I like Jackson's potential and he seems to have a good motor on him. I just hope he does less thinking and more playing if given the chance to play more downs. IDK what is Dooms problem, I've been disappointed and I, too would like to see Ayers or Jackson to replace Doom on obvious running downs. But like I said in my post I think that is why it happened, this week the Chargers run a slow offense, I've seen Rivers wind the play clock to 1 majority of the times. Norv's problem has been that way forever.
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whereas Doom has struggled - although here listed at 5 - Von has picked up where he left off last season (according to PFF):

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/10/pass-rushing-productivty-the-story-so-far/
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Russell2Bailey


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see Von Miller getting the attention he deserves.
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broncospride95


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoinGermany wrote:
Whereas Doom has struggled - although here listed at 5 - Von has picked up where he left off last season (according to PFF):

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/10/pass-rushing-productivty-the-story-so-far/

Interesting seeing Doom top-5. Nice to see Von getting the recognition he deserves. He has played excellent this year and is becoming very good against the run too.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miller has really impressed me this year. He's being asked to do much more and has responded remarkably.
He's a far better LB this year than last. He has an amazing impact for a guy just entering his second year. I can hardly wait until he really learns the position.
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howie102


Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Miller has really impressed me this year. He's being asked to do much more and has responded remarkably.
He's a far better LB this year than last. He has an amazing impact for a guy just entering his second year. I can hardly wait until he really learns the position.


Which begs the question; where will our money/top picks be best-placed next year? Looking at the list of FA MLBs, there are pretty slim pickings. An ageing Urlacher or an under-performing Witherspoon? I'll pass on both.

Likewise, not much in the DT market; an under-performing Ellis, a system misfit in Dorsey or an ageing Williams?

We seemingly can't cover all our defensive woes, so which position is going to benefit VM the most?
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

howie102 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Miller has really impressed me this year. He's being asked to do much more and has responded remarkably.
He's a far better LB this year than last. He has an amazing impact for a guy just entering his second year. I can hardly wait until he really learns the position.


Which begs the question; where will our money/top picks be best-placed next year? Looking at the list of FA MLBs, there are pretty slim pickings. An ageing Urlacher or an under-performing Witherspoon? I'll pass on both.

Likewise, not much in the DT market; an under-performing Ellis, a system misfit in Dorsey or an ageing Williams?

We seemingly can't cover all our defensive woes, so which position is going to benefit VM the most?


Wide Receiver. This team absolutely needs another one, and anyone who doesn't think so is off their rocker. Stokley ain't playing forever. Outside of him we don't have much. If one of our guys goes down, we're in big trouble. The more weapons Manning has, the better.
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