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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 21209
Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone else has mentioned, we need more 3 down impact players on Defense. Whether that is a MLB, WLB, DT, DE etc - I am not bothered. Absolutely love the fact that our FO decided to go with the BPA approach with Von Miller. How many people on this forum went mental when we decided to pass on Marcel Dareus for Miller, because DT was our bigger need? Sorry to name drop, but UK and AAA were two of these posters.

BPA is the way forward.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 21209
Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some quotes for your enjoyment (pretty sure I did this a while back too) :-

big_palooka wrote:
Hoping the pick is Miller. 3-4 pass rusher moving to a 4-3 DE. I can't understand taking an OLB #2 overall. He's not a fit in a 4-3.


WOOPSY DAISY.

b_rent87 wrote:
Von Miller is the pick. Unfortunately


Changed your mind yet?

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
What I keep hearing on NFLN is that Miller is "versatile" and that's a big reason why we're picking him. I guess the McDaniels influence lives on at Dove Valley.


Laughing

And to just to blow my own trumpet; here is what I said 10 minutes after our pick :-

lomaxgr wrote:
Love the pick. The guy is an absolute beast, and I can't wait to see a guy with this kind of explosion on our Defense. I hate to compare people to HOF players, but he has Derrick Thomas written all over him ...


Never been more happy to be right Cool
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Last edited by lomaxgr on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 22142
Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
As someone else has mentioned, we need more 3 down impact players on Defense. Whether that is a MLB, WLB, DT, DE etc - I am not bothered. Absolutely love the fact that our FO decided to go with the BPA approach with Von Miller. How many people on this forum went mental when we decided to pass on Marcel Dareus for Miller, because DT was our bigger need? Sorry to name drop, but UK and AAA were two of these posters.

BPA is the way forward.


I think Elway will be looking highly at first round DE this year to be completely honest with you. Rahim Moore has progressed very well. I saw calls for safety early on, but I'm not seeing those as much.

Wolfe is going to be a disruptive utility type along the line. I'm good with that role for him, we need that. Having another guy come in who can just get after the QB would do wonders for this team. That being said, so would a MLB. I love Te'o, but I wouldn't trade future firsts for him. It's just not worth it and doesn't follow the ideology Elway has so far. I could easily see us going after Alec Ogletree, though.

Anyway, I think for this next draft going CB/S/OLB early is out of the question. Can't see DT being in play unless there's tremendous value. QB is out, TE is out.

The likeliest possibilities for me are OG, OT, WR, MLB, DE. RB is an outside shot, but realistically I don't think it will happen. I don't see great value for MLB where we will realistically be picking, and DE could be thin too. OT has great value, WR should have great value too.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5148
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

howie102 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Miller has really impressed me this year. He's being asked to do much more and has responded remarkably.
He's a far better LB this year than last. He has an amazing impact for a guy just entering his second year. I can hardly wait until he really learns the position.


Which begs the question; where will our money/top picks be best-placed next year? Looking at the list of FA MLBs, there are pretty slim pickings. An ageing Urlacher or an under-performing Witherspoon? I'll pass on both.

Likewise, not much in the DT market; an under-performing Ellis, a system misfit in Dorsey or an ageing Williams?

We seemingly can't cover all our defensive woes, so which position is going to benefit VM the most?


Personally I'd like to see them complete our LB corp via the draft. We need one more 3 down LB to compete with the "Hurry up". I guess I'm finally on the Te'o bandwagon.

I'm pretty pleased with our DL development so far. Hard to use the NE game as any kind if measuring stick. We don't have the personnel to stop them but then again, few teams do.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With Mitch Unrein and Derek Wolfe, we could have a top class DL if we add a pure Left End, with Jackson and Ayers as solid rotational players.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 22142
Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
With Mitch Unrein and Derek Wolfe, we could have a top class DL if we add a pure Left End, with Jackson and Ayers as solid rotational players.


Mitch Unrein is never going to be part of a "top-class DL" and neither will Jackson or Ayers. We need another guy who consistently gets after the QB and generates a pass rush alongside Miller. What those guys you mentioned, except Wolfe, he'll be fine, provide is depth that is necessary along the DL, but they aren't 100% of the time starters.
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 2494
Location: Bad Nauheim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we go OL early. They have showen that they can protect Manning and create holes in the run game. It surely will remain an ongoing debate, but if the FO decides to upgrade guys like Zane and Walton, they are going to do it in the middle rounds. What we need is defensive depth in the front 7. No matter DE, DT, MLB or WLB. If we sit in mid 20s like last year - let's say 27th - and one of the guys we have high on our board is still there at 21, we trade up. I'd have to dig out the article/vid to post a link but Elway mentioned that they had guys on their board they would have considered trading up for had they fallen further. They considered Melvin Ingram and Michael Brockers, who ultimately went to high at 18 and 14 respectively. Elway sticks to his board but he is also a salesman with a killer-instict (see Manning courting). I actually like your WR train of thought. But somehow I have the feeling the FO regards this position as FA material. Same with RB. Nothing to be drafted in the first. We absolutely have to keep stocking up the D.
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elwayfan07


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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Location: Pensacola FL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
With Mitch Unrein and Derek Wolfe, we could have a top class DL if we add a pure Left End, with Jackson and Ayers as solid rotational players.


Mitch Unrein is never going to be part of a "top-class DL" and neither will Jackson or Ayers. We need another guy who consistently gets after the QB and generates a pass rush alongside Miller. What those guys you mentioned, except Wolfe, he'll be fine, provide is depth that is necessary along the DL, but they aren't 100% of the time starters.


Agree. Mitch is a solid player but he is far from top class
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 12520
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
As someone else has mentioned, we need more 3 down impact players on Defense. Whether that is a MLB, WLB, DT, DE etc - I am not bothered. Absolutely love the fact that our FO decided to go with the BPA approach with Von Miller. How many people on this forum went mental when we decided to pass on Marcel Dareus for Miller, because DT was our bigger need? Sorry to name drop, but UK and AAA were two of these posters.

BPA is the way forward.

I thought Dareus was the better player. I thought Miller was going to struggle to set the edge ect. I was just wrong about Miller.
BroncoinGermany wrote:
I don't think we go OL early. They have showen that they can protect Manning and create holes in the run game. It surely will remain an ongoing debate, but if the FO decides to upgrade guys like Zane and Walton, they are going to do it in the middle rounds. What we need is defensive depth in the front 7. No matter DE, DT, MLB or WLB. If we sit in mid 20s like last year - let's say 27th - and one of the guys we have high on our board is still there at 21, we trade up. I'd have to dig out the article/vid to post a link but Elway mentioned that they had guys on their board they would have considered trading up for had they fallen further. They considered Melvin Ingram and Michael Brockers, who ultimately went to high at 18 and 14 respectively. Elway sticks to his board but he is also a salesman with a killer-instict (see Manning courting). I actually like your WR train of thought. But somehow I have the feeling the FO regards this position as FA material. Same with RB. Nothing to be drafted in the first. We absolutely have to keep stocking up the D.

I hated Ingram as a prospect. Way to short of arms and honestly just overrated. I think he'll end up just as a nice subpackage guy. Brockers is a classic boom or bust. Extremely raw. IMO when you draft a WR in the first you should think they're an absolute stud and far better than anyone on the board. Its not worth drafting for need. Should just take the best player that's available.
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champ+jay+al=SB


Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 15459
Location: Boulder
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elvis is still on pace for a double digit sack season. Let's not hate too hard. Agreed we need to look DL early in the draft, but Elvis is still a big part of this defenses' success. He needs to be in for predominantly pass rushing situations. It's on the coaches/FO as much as him.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
Elvis is still on pace for a double digit sack season. Let's not hate too hard. Agreed we need to look DL early in the draft, but Elvis is still a big part of this defenses' success. He needs to be in for predominantly pass rushing situations. It's on the coaches/FO as much as him.


Problem is, how do you do that when the Offense you are playing is no huddle like the Patriots? For the amount of $$$ we are paying him, he should be a more complete player that is for sure.

I think he has had a good season as a pass rusher, but the guy can be blocked 1v1 by TE's in the running game - that puts you at such a disadvantage from a matchup perspective.
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7835
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
BPA is the way forward.


I am not saying this is wrong, just that it needs clarified.

From Denver's 2 drafts it (at least to me) seems apparent that Elway/Fox are determined to fill "needs" in the draft and are fully committed at BPA at a position of need...which is why i don't consider this necessarily wrong, nor do i think any team in this league simply drafts the best player available on their board.

Mike Klis told the world exactly what Denver wanted to do during the draft and it was exactly what happened this past year. I actually made a few comments in the draft day thread about this. IIRC, Klis said heading into day 2 and 3 that Denver would address the DL, QB, RB, OL, and CB....that was exactly what they did.

Now it of course may not happen exactly as Denver wants. For example, maybe they would have taken Dre Kirkpatrick at #25 had he fallen and drafted a DL with their 2nd or 3rd round pick, but IMO, Elway/Fox set aside 4 or so positions or skill sets (skill set, IMO, was a major reason Denver selected Wolfe/Jackson. Their versatility and size along the DL is something that could prove very valuable.) that they want to address in the draft and go about taking the BPA's at those positions to do so.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 21209
Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
BPA is the way forward.


I am not saying this is wrong, just that it needs clarified.

From Denver's 2 drafts it (at least to me) seems apparent that Elway/Fox are determined to fill "needs" in the draft and are fully committed at BPA at a position of need...which is why i don't consider this necessarily wrong, nor do i think any team in this league simply drafts the best player available on their board.

Mike Klis told the world exactly what Denver wanted to do during the draft and it was exactly what happened this past year. I actually made a few comments in the draft day thread about this. IIRC, Klis said heading into day 2 and 3 that Denver would address the DL, QB, RB, OL, and CB....that was exactly what they did.

Now it of course may not happen exactly as Denver wants. For example, maybe they would have taken Dre Kirkpatrick at #25 had he fallen and drafted a DL with their 2nd or 3rd round pick, but IMO, Elway/Fox set aside 4 or so positions or skill sets (skill set, IMO, was a major reason Denver selected Wolfe/Jackson. Their versatility and size along the DL is something that could prove very valuable.) that they want to address in the draft and go about taking the BPA's at those positions to do so.


Of course - I agree with this entirely. This team isn't in the position where they could afford to draft say a LT just because he is the best player on the board, despite the fact we already have a quality LT.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elvis hasn't had a good season as a pass rusher. If he was any good as a pass rusher he wouldn't be singled teamed every play. But teams have figured out they don't have to respect Dumervil like that. Soon Broncos fans will figure it out too.

Dude gets blocked handily most plays, I don't care if it's pass or run plays. He doesn't deflect passes at the line, he's not a great stunt player, he doesn't offer much in the running game, and it takes him time to get in the backfield. He's mediocre, not good.
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Elvis hasn't had a good season as a pass rusher. If he was any good as a pass rusher he wouldn't be singled teamed every play. But teams have figured out they don't have to respect Dumervil like that. Soon Broncos fans will figure it out too.

Dude gets blocked handily most plays, I don't care if it's pass or run plays. He doesn't deflect passes at the line, he's not a great stunt player, he doesn't offer much in the running game, and it takes him time to get in the backfield. He's mediocre, not good.


In 6 NFL seasons, (one of which was wiped out due to a season ending injury) Dumervil has career stats of:
Tackles 194
Quarterback sacks 55.5
Interceptions 1
Forced fumbles 12

Wow!! What a mediocre player. I am sure these stats are pretty mediocre for every DE in the NFL within the same time period. An average of 11 sacks a year and 2.5 forced fumbles per season is pretty mediocre if you ask me.
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