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Spielman doing work?
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GoneWithTheWind


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Spielman doing work? Reply with quote

I was thinking there were a lot of people who have been really down on Spielman but I think he deserves a little credit to this years success because the rookies are contributing significantly.

Matt Kalil- Has been very good overall doing a better job of finishing plays.

Harrison Smith- Hammerin Harrison Smith. Dude is absolutely legit. Instincts along with laying the wood is a great way to be a defensive enforcer. Best Pick spielman made this year.

Josh Robinson- Had a crucial INT and could have more but I'm not going to get greedy yet.

Also a couple second year guys he drafted are helping out.

Christian Ponder- He's been incredibly effiecent and reliable so far which is a good start. He's the leader of the team which is really exciting to see.

Kyle Rudolph- A Poor man Rob Gronkowski right now. Seems to be Christians favorite Red-Zone target by far and has proven to be a good security blanket.

Mistrayal Raymond. Clearly better then JaMarca I know not hard to do but he's an upgrade none the less.


As you can tell Spielman has my confidence currently. Any Thoughts?
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PurpleMugen


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too early to tell, really. A lot of guys on that list have real promise, though. It's hard to anoint Spielman just yet though because there's plenty of ways these players can pan out from here.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last two years are better, true. The fact that they were bad before that, imo, was what led to my concerns. Let's see how many wins they have at the end of the year before we say he is great, though. Also, his one free agent signing for a 3 and 13 team hasn't been worth it so far (and it was the only one). But yes, I think most of his critics would concede the last two drafts look pretty good right now. Otoh, it is a bit early to judge any of them just yet, one way or the other, as good longterm players.
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GoneWithTheWind


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
The last two years are better, true. The fact that they were bad before that, imo, was what led to my concerns. Let's see how many wins they have at the end of the year before we say he is great, though. Also, his one free agent signing for a 3 and 13 team hasn't been worth it so far (and it was the only one). But yes, I think most of his critics would concede the last two drafts look pretty good right now. Otoh, it is a bit early to judge any of them just yet, one way or the other, as good longterm players.


That's certainly fair. Just pointing out that so far he seems to be a doing a much better job. Also when was it he was officially named the GM? I'm thinking 2 years ago but i'm not positive about that. If i'm remembering correctly then the drafts really improved when he was given full control.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is his first full season as GM, right?

because last year if he had been GM, he wouldn't have brought in McNabbers.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least this off-season it appeared there was an actual plan/philosophy in place. At least everyone on the longboat is now sailing in the same direction.

Whether that's the right direction, time will tell..
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kellerman wrote:
At least this off-season it appeared there was an actual plan/philosophy in place. At least everyone on the longboat is now sailing in the same direction.

Whether that's the right direction, time will tell..

i made a post to that effect in the DET forum about our present personnel philosophy.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PrplChilPill wrote:
The last two years are better, true. The fact that they were bad before that, imo, was what led to my concerns.


Ironically, who was there before with input that is no longer there? Wink
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JMac79


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
The last two years are better, true. The fact that they were bad before that, imo, was what led to my concerns.


Ironically, who was there before with input that is no longer there? Wink


I think that's one of the key reasons why evaluating Speilman on what he did prior to 2010 is tough to gauge: those were the old "Triangle of Authority" days, and without any of us being able to see the decisions made up close and personally in Winter Park back then, it's tough to say how much of the credit or blame for personnel decisions or draft strategies fell on Speilman, Childress, or Brezinski. Once Chilly was shown the door, it became quite obvious that it was Rick's show...

And in that regard, his outings into the UFA market have left a bit to be desired... but the realities of the lockout certainly affected 2011; Donovan McNabb and Remi Ayodele were poor decisions, but almost every front office has admitted that it was a mad dash to sign players once the lockout ended, and evaluation of a player's "fit" was shortened significantly. John Carlson is looking like a stinker of an acquisition right now, but we'll see how this season progresses. Jerome Simpson hasn't really produced yet, but a nice catch and two PI calls due to his speed were beneficial to the team in his first action this past Sunday. Schwartz didn't get much of a shot due to injury in camp, and Chris Carr and Zach Bowman proved to be flops (although I suspect that they were signed as "fliers", guys given a chance to show something).

On the draft front however, I think Spielman has done fairly well. Ponder was a risky pick at #12, but he is looking like a steadier player than either Gabbert or Locker at this point. Obviously it's too early to call him a success, but things are generally looking up... and Rudolph would fall into that category as well. Kalil is playing better than most rookie LTs, and while he needs to continue developing, he looks like a potential cornerstone for the O-Line for the next decade; similarly, Harrison Smith has brought a physical presence and range to the secondary that had been lacking, although he is still raw in spots in coverage. Later round guys like Brandon Fusco, Mistral Raymond, Blair Walsh, Josh Robinson, and Rhett Ellison have all stepped up as contributors or solid developmental players; but at the same time, Christian Ballard has been forgettable in the D-line rotation, and guys like Brandon Burton, DeMarcus Love, D'Aundre Reed, and Stephen Burton have largely been relegated to the sidelines despite openings for them to step up and fill in on the playing field (I won't mention the 2012 guys on the sidelines right now, because it's probably too early to judge them).
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The drafts in 2011 and 2012 seem quite strong from bottom to top. I think Spielman has been better in his role as the GM than he was during the triangle of authority days. Time will obviously tell if Spielman's drafts were effective but its apparent that he is getting a lot of snaps out of those draft picks the past two years.
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VikesGuy07


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMac79 wrote:
disaacs wrote:
PrplChilPill wrote:
The last two years are better, true. The fact that they were bad before that, imo, was what led to my concerns.


Ironically, who was there before with input that is no longer there? Wink


I think that's one of the key reasons why evaluating Speilman on what he did prior to 2010 is tough to gauge: those were the old "Triangle of Authority" days, and without any of us being able to see the decisions made up close and personally in Winter Park back then, it's tough to say how much of the credit or blame for personnel decisions or draft strategies fell on Speilman, Childress, or Brezinski. Once Chilly was shown the door, it became quite obvious that it was Rick's show...

And in that regard, his outings into the UFA market have left a bit to be desired... but the realities of the lockout certainly affected 2011; Donovan McNabb and Remi Ayodele were poor decisions, but almost every front office has admitted that it was a mad dash to sign players once the lockout ended, and evaluation of a player's "fit" was shortened significantly. John Carlson is looking like a stinker of an acquisition right now, but we'll see how this season progresses. Jerome Simpson hasn't really produced yet, but a nice catch and two PI calls due to his speed were beneficial to the team in his first action this past Sunday. Schwartz didn't get much of a shot due to injury in camp, and Chris Carr and Zach Bowman proved to be flops (although I suspect that they were signed as "fliers", guys given a chance to show something).

On the draft front however, I think Spielman has done fairly well. Ponder was a risky pick at #12, but he is looking like a steadier player than either Gabbert or Locker at this point. Obviously it's too early to call him a success, but things are generally looking up... and Rudolph would fall into that category as well. Kalil is playing better than most rookie LTs, and while he needs to continue developing, he looks like a potential cornerstone for the O-Line for the next decade; similarly, Harrison Smith has brought a physical presence and range to the secondary that had been lacking, although he is still raw in spots in coverage. Later round guys like Brandon Fusco, Mistral Raymond, Blair Walsh, Josh Robinson, and Rhett Ellison have all stepped up as contributors or solid developmental players; but at the same time, Christian Ballard has been forgettable in the D-line rotation, and guys like Brandon Burton, DeMarcus Love, D'Aundre Reed, and Stephen Burton have largely been relegated to the sidelines despite openings for them to step up and fill in on the playing field (I won't mention the 2012 guys on the sidelines right now, because it's probably too early to judge them).


Remember, it wasn't just Spielman's show after Childress was fired. Last season (2011), Frazier had equal say with Spielman. It's been well-reported at this point that it was Frazier's decision to bring in McNabb, and Spielman fought against it. Who else did Frazier influence? No idea. Maybe no one, maybe everyone. But either way, it wasn't Spielman's team.

2012 is the first year it is 100 percent Spielman's moves.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am willing to bet that Frazier leaned on Spielman more in 2011 than Childress ever did simply because Frazier was a first year head coach at the time and obviously a guy like Spielman has a bit more experience in regards to personnel matters versus Frazier.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

let's look at Spielman's progression in drafting what i'll call "middle of the road" players, guys drafted in Rounds 4-6:

2010:
Rnd 4 Everson Griffin
Rnd 5 Chris DeGeare
Rnd 5 Nathan Triplett
Rnd 6 Joe Webb

2011:
Rnd 4 Christian Ballard
Rnd 5 Brandon Burton
Rnd 6 Demarcus Love
Rnd 6 Mistral Raymond
Rnd 6 Brandon Fusco
Rnd 6 Ross Homan

2012:
Rnd 4 Jarius Wright
Rnd 4 Rhett Ellison
Rnd 4 Greg Childs
Rnd 5 Robert Blanton
Rnd 6 Blair Walsh
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something to consider: before the 2012 draft, Spielman got some flak for being predictable in his picks, especially the fact that he has a thing for certain schools, like USC, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc.

It seems like Spielman hit every pipeline draft pick out of the park in 2012:

1st - #4 Matt Kalil [T] USC
1st - #29 Harrison Smith [S] Notre Dame
4th - #128 Rhett Ellison [TE] USC
5th - #139 Robert Blanton [DB] Notre Dame
6th - #175 Blair Walsh [K] Georgia


3rd - #66 - Josh Robinson [CB] UCF
4th - #118 Jarius Wright [WR] Arkansas
4th - #134 - Greg Childs [WR] Arkansas
7th - #210 Audie Cole [LB] North Carolina State
7th - #219 - Trevor Guyton [DL] California

Overall, we have 4 draft picks starting, and 2 getting playing time as back-ups (Ellison, Robinson). Cole, Wright and Childs (pending injury) still have a shot at making an impact in the future.

Great draft class or what?
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
let's look at Spielman's progression in drafting what i'll call "middle of the road" players, guys drafted in Rounds 4-6:

2010:
Rnd 4 Everson Griffin
Rnd 5 Chris DeGeare
Rnd 5 Nathan Triplett
Rnd 6 Joe Webb
Rnd 7 Mickey Shuler
Rnd 7 Ryan D'Imperio

2011:
Rnd 4 Christian Ballard
Rnd 5 Brandon Burton
Rnd 6 Demarcus Love IR
Rnd 6 Mistral Raymond
Rnd 6 Brandon Fusco

Rnd 6 Ross Homan
Rnd 7 D'Aundre Reed
Rnd 7 Stephen Burton


2012:
Rnd 4 Jarius Wright
Rnd 4 Rhett Ellison
Rnd 4 Greg Childs IR
Rnd 5 Robert Blanton
Rnd 6 Blair Walsh
Rnd 7 Audie Cole

Rnd 7 Trevor Guyton



(I added the 7th rounders as well to make the picture more complete)
Looking pretty good. 15/21 (72%) still on the roster.

What makes it even more interesting, in the pursuit of looking for the hand of Spielman, is to look at the difference between that 2010 draft and the 2011/2012 one. In 2010, major Brad was still in Minnesota, as part of the triangle. It seems our draft strategy and efficiency changed quite a bit after that.

As for real impact, I count 3 true starters (Fusco/Raymond/Walsh), and a lot of borderline starters and solid rotational players. If we can keep this up, our roster depth should vastly improve in the coming years.
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