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bmore4life815


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Carson Palmer Reply with quote

I've always noticed that this forum isn't too keen on Carson's abilities, but the hate has really picked up over the past season or so. Carson "pick six" Palmer was what a certain poster coined him in the offseason. That same fellow ranked him the worst starter in the AFCW prior to Tebow arriving in the Apple (yes, below Cassel as well). I caught a couple of other users ranking him amongst the bottom 5-10 QB's in the league (one had him 30th). And then there were others remarking that he was never that great to begin with.

The reason I made this thread is pretty simple: When are you guys going to give him his due? The man is still a quality QB, and I don't see how you can argue otherwise. Here is where he stacked up a year ago in the final eight weeks of the season (stats courtesy of ESPN):

Passing yards- 5th
TD's - 12T
Comp.% - 7th
YPA - 4th
Passing plays of 25+ yards - 2T

Also, his net yards per pass, vertical YPA, and stretch-vertical YPA were all in the top 10 as well by season's end. Bear in mind that he was working with a very young, developing WR corps during this time. And, if you take away his Raider debut (in which he was working with guys he'd known for less than a week), you get a final statline that reads:

9 games, 191/307 (62.2%), 2637 yards (8.6 YPA), 13 TD's, 13 INT's, 86.2 QBR

Not bad at all; especially considering he was on the couch for the entire first half of the season.

This year, it's the same story with you guys. Care to mention that he's in a dumbed-down offense with a terribly conservative new OC in Greg Knapp? Of course not. Anyone who's actually watched him play knows that he isn't to blame at all for Oakland's 1-3 start. Carson's still got it, folks. Deny it all you want, but he's far from one of the worst starters in the league.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He went to USC and just about everyone on this phenomenal forum hates NFL players who went to USC. Especially QB's from that institution. Rolling Eyes
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where was the thread trashing Carson Palmer for the season. I must have missed that one.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he is a solid stop gap, at the end of the day, the Raiders are still a very poor team who will likely be in a position to grab a better, more long-term QB solution. I dont think Palmer is horrible, I am just not convinced that he has much of a future in Oakland. Basically, he is someone you dont need to replace but if you can, you do.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought he was done. Never did I even consider it being possible that he would be the only good thing about the Raiders this year.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).

Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.
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bmore4life815


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?


His last few seasons in Cincinnati.
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?


His last few seasons in Cincinnati.


Obviously people don't wanna use those games as a sample size....Palmer looked completely mediocre and has no excuse! At least for the 10 mediocre games he played last year, Palmer supporters can use the fact that he was out of football for a while before he came to the Raiders.

Palmer's stats this year aren't really going to convince anybody that he is actually good. He is pretty mediocre and has been for a few years now...Nothing has changed. He is the king of racking up inflated stats, which he is still doing this year.

Raiders fans have been pretty critical of Palmer's play this year....it seems like he is definitely not doing anything to help them from being 1-3 this year at all.

Palmer isn't a horrible QB...he's just not very good. Hence why I use the word mediocre when talking about him.
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Steelerspower


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmer is still a bad QB

a good game against a bad defense as the Steelers do not change that Palmer is still very bad
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falseintellect


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he's looked really good for the raiders.

Their problem is: worst offensive coordinator in the NFL, scheme that doesn't fit personnel, no running game, bad offensive line, no receivers healthy.

Palmer has actually looked like their best offensive player, easily.

Maybe it was for the best "down the road" to gut everything, but Hue Jackson had their offense (with McFadden healthy) looking top 10. I would guess they have only 10-15 players left from their current roster on the team next season.
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bmore4life815


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

falseintellect wrote:
I think he's looked really good for the raiders.

Their problem is: worst offensive coordinator in the NFL, scheme that doesn't fit personnel, no running game, bad offensive line, no receivers healthy.

Palmer has actually looked like their best offensive player, easily.

Maybe it was for the best "down the road" to gut everything, but Hue Jackson had their offense (with McFadden healthy) looking top 10. I would guess they have only 10-15 players left from their current roster on the team next season.

Yes, yes, and yes.

Oh, and baconrad3: Where are you getting that Raider fans are critical of Palmer? Most have been nothing but supportive of him on this forum.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?


His time in Cincinatti? Or the "wait a season and see" size? Using 8-10 games as a pure sample size isn't going to show anything. Hell, even 1 season isn't very good to use.

Let me ask you this: Do you think he's going to suddenly turn around a 4+ year decline?
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Darkness


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?


His time in Cincinatti? Or the "wait a season and see" size? Using 8-10 games as a pure sample size isn't going to show anything. Hell, even 1 season isn't very good to use.

Let me ask you this: Do you think he's going to suddenly turn around a 4+ year decline?


He physically looks the best he has in a while and has been playing well so far, so I'm not sure what the point of bringing up 2 seasons ago is.
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bmore4life815


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Taking the final 8 weeks of any season and using that as a measure of anything is not going to cut it (see: Chiefs fans).
Carson looked the same last year as he has any year -- makes some plays, and then blows it with a dumb mistake.

He's been steadily declining for years and nothing I've seen makes me think he's going to all of the sudden start working his way back up. He's average at this point and getting worse as he goes on. I don't think he's a terrible QB, but I do think he's declining and the price paid for him was laughable. But, as I've predicted, I don't see him finishing the season with a QB rating over 85 and probably closer to 80.

He only played 10 games, and didn't step in until the second half of his debut. What other sample size could've been used?


His time in Cincinatti? Or the "wait a season and see" size? Using 8-10 games as a pure sample size isn't going to show anything. Hell, even 1 season isn't very good to use.

Let me ask you this: Do you think he's going to suddenly turn around a 4+ year decline?

Let's take a closer look at his "decline":

'08: Starts the season with two horrid games. One came against us, arguably the top overall defense that year. Bounces back with a very good one against a very formidable defense (I recall the Giants being top 5 by the end of year). Plays so-so against Dallas two weeks later. Gets injured and misses the rest of the year.

'09: He deserves a medal for this particular season. He had these "weapons" aside from Chad: Lavearneus Coles (out of the league after that year, IIRC), Andre Caldwell, J.P. Foschi (out of the league), and Daniel Fells. Despite this, if you take away the week 17 debacle (where Caldwell and co. were dropping balls left and right), here is his statline:

281/455 (61.8%), 3094 yards (6.8 YPA), 21 TD's, 12 INT's, 86.3 QBR

Plus, he keyed 4-5 GW drives.

'10: This was his worst full year by a mile. Can't argue against that. However, he also put up with a dreadful O-line (I still remember the pass-protection on Thanksgiving night vs. the Jets that year; it was that atrocious), a non-existant running game, and a defense that didn't do him any favors. Oh, and T.O. certainly didn't help things. There were at least 3-4 INT's I can recall where Terrell flat-out gave up on a given route. Two came against Indy and Miami (game-sealing INT), among others. I remember these examples so well because it was so blatantly obvious at the time that he had packed it in for the year. So, was it a coincidence that Carson began to light it up with Jerome Simpson as the #1? I don't think so.

'11: As I described in the opening post, he was quite good given the circumstances. The numbers back it up.

'12: As myself, falseintellect and several Raider fans on here have mentioned, he has been the best offensive player on the team this year (although that isn't saying too much). As Mossburg mentioned, he has been the sole glimmer of hope.
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Last edited by bmore4life815 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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