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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 2235
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Should I stay or should I go? Reply with quote

This is not an overreaction thread this is to see what holes we need to fill and what holes we don't. Clearly we are lacking in certain areas and we have a ton of overpaid players who need to go. Basically who on this team should stay and who needs to go? Let's see a quick depth chart on who you think should be on this team come 2013. If you like a player to stay but don't think he's a starter put a ? first so we know where we need a starter.

QB - ?/McElroy/?
RB - ?/Powell/McKnight
FB - Connor/?
WR - ?/Hill/Kerley/Schillens/?
TE - Keller/?
LT - Brick/Smith
LG - ?/Slauson
C - Mangold
RG - ?/Slauson
RT - Austin/Smith (backups both RT and LT)

LE - Coples/DeVito
NT - Pouha/Ellis
RE - Wilk/Dixon
OLB - ?/Sapp
ILB - Davis (I hope he can be the guy)/McIntyre
ILB - Harris/McIntyre
OLB - ?/Maybin
CB - Revis/Wilson
CB - Cro/?
FS - ?/Bell/Bush
SS - Landry/Bell

2013 guys that should be replaced:
QB - Sanchez
RB - Greene
WR - Holmes
TE - Need another more complete TE who can block and catch
OG - Need 2 new starting guards (Slauson would be a good backup)
ILB - Hope Davis is the answer
OLB - Need 2 new OLB's and Maybin/Sapp can be 3rd down rushers
FS - Could use a more traditional cover FS but Bell is a nice backup

The offense needs much more work then the D. Like most have said guys that need to go Sanchez, Greene, Holmes, Scott, Thomas, Pace, Moore, Tebow. Time to draft some youth and speed.

If we make these changes we will probably suck next year but we will be younger and faster and then will be able to draft a QB onto a team that has some pieces in place to help them be successful. It's not a one year retool it's probably a 3 year plan before we can see real change. Next few drafts are going to be important.

Ahhh, the life of a Jets fan.
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rdelaney89


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 1615
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they hold on to Sanchez for another year and then attack the offense side of the ball this off-season. I think if he doesn't preform next year he's out of NY. Not that I want Mark to stay next year but there is simply too many holes to trade up for a good QB and this is a weak QB class to begin with.

1st - BPA at RB or WR
2nd - G
3rd - OLB
4th- G/S/OLB/TE

if the draft falls something like that I'm ok. I think with the weight the Jets can shed in the off-season we could sign a stud WR. idk the deal with Holmes and his contract but I'd go after Bowe or Wallace
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jimbo1904


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a lot of holes and QB is one of them. The root of this is that we just don't have the talent to make sanchez effective and sanchez isn't talented enough to make others effective.
So how did we get to this point? Coaching... maybe a little? Players regressing... a few? I thinks its about talent and evaluation/drafting. We got old AND stopped drafting jet-like players: team guys that didn't cause penalties, fundamentally were sound, and that didn't make mental mistakes. We draft too much on high risk.

I would like to see IF SOMEONE could find the info and compare the draft classes of rex's era to mangini's. See how the players pan out. It would also be cool to see the 5 players behind the ones we chose in the past 3 years to see how they are doing- meaning the we could of had guys but didn't.
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 2235
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at some other threads I see that with these cuts we should have some money to spend. Take this money and get 1 mauling guard (and draft another) to fix this line. Top priority for me.

I'd rather not overpay for pass rushers cause in order to get them you need to overpay (we tried that and it didn't work). We need 2 new OLB's but let's look to the draft for them. And at least hope one pans out as a future star.

We should have enough money left over to get a good TE to compliment Keller and also maybe a solid FS.
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Colt45fool


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Posts: 5719
Location: New Haven, CT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimbo1904 wrote:
We have a lot of holes and QB is one of them. The root of this is that we just don't have the talent to make sanchez effective and sanchez isn't talented enough to make others effective.
So how did we get to this point? Coaching... maybe a little? Players regressing... a few? I thinks its about talent and evaluation/drafting. We got old AND stopped drafting jet-like players: team guys that didn't cause penalties, fundamentally were sound, and that didn't make mental mistakes. We draft too much on high risk.

I would like to see IF SOMEONE could find the info and compare the draft classes of rex's era to mangini's. See how the players pan out. It would also be cool to see the 5 players behind the ones we chose in the past 3 years to see how they are doing- meaning the we could of had guys but didn't.
It's not really difficult to do. Everyone knows how the Mangini picks worked in comparison to the Ryan picks. Here's the short version: the Ryan picks sucked. They didn't fill needs and they didn't even pan out to be great players. I'm almost positive that not one Ryan drafted player has gone to a pro bowl outside of special teams play. Meanwhile, Revis, Mangold, Leon Washington (and I think) Harris have had their pro bowl seasons. They've had about the same amount of time to be judged for draft picks as well...3 seasons worth.

As far as who was available for the Ryan drafts...well, let's see...

2009: Sanchez (1st), Greene (3rd), Slauson (6th)

Not a bad haul in hindsight. We needed a QB and Clemens wasn't the answer. Even if we skipped on Sanchez we'd have taken Freeman later whom has yet to prove himself. In hindsight, considering our needs going into this draft we could have rolled the dice on someone like Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Clay Matthews or Hakeem Nicks depending on if we stay put (21st pick) or if we move up slightly.

As far as the rest of the draft, we could have taken a Mike Wallace over Shonn Greene, but realistically there's no better pick at RB by the third round. Some guys have shown flashes (Glen Coffee, Andre Brown) but nothing more than what Greene has shown. Slauson was great value

2010: Kyle Wilson (1st) Ducasse (2nd) Joe Mcknight (4th) John Conner (5th)

This draft is just one big LOL. Realistically, every pick here is probably a miss. Jahvid Best if healthy could be a nice 1-2 punch with Greene in the first round. He's also versatile. Dexter McCluster is a do-it-all RB and WR tweener that we could have taken as a playmaker in the first. Gronkowski was taken in the 2nd round also...could have been ours in the first to pair with Keller.

Ducasse was taken in the 2nd round. It made sense at the time. We could have had Navorro Bowman here though to pair with David Harris for the future. McKnight in the 4th could easily be Aaron Henandez in the 4th though he makes little sense to have with Keller. I don't really think the McKnight pick was a waste as he's turned into a pretty solid special teams/jack-o-all-trades type player.

If we take McCluster or Best in the first and McKnight here, our offense becomes really versatile and leaves Sanchez with plenty of options. A 1-2 punch of Best-Greene with Edwards/HOlmes out wide, Keller at TE and McKnight/Cotchery in the slots...or maybe McCluster-Greene as a 1-2 punch with McCluster being able to come out in the slot and Edwards/Holmes outside. This whole draft is pretty bad and it's a shame what we could have done with it. Legitimately taking a McCluster or Best over Wilson shores up our running game and gives us a play maker which would be really useful. Even leaving things the same now, we could have a WR core of Holmes-McCluster-Hill or a RB core of Powell-McCluster-Greene which looks immediately better than what we have now.

2011: Wilkerson (1st), Ellis (3rd), Powell (4th), Kerley (5th), McElroy (7th), Scotty McKnight (7th)

Looking at it now, this isn't a terrible draft. Let's disregard all the moves before and assume we go in losing Edwards, Jenkins, Woody and Cotchery. Torrey Smith and Titus Young were taken after Wilkerson. Considering how much we lost at WR and how much failure was in the signings of Burress/Mason I think bringing in Burress and drafting a Smith/Young could be a good bet here. Kenrick Ellis was taken towards the end of the third round and while not a bad pick it only added diversity to a pretty good DL. We could have taken a guy like Roy Helu here to shore up the backfield for the future (esp. considering McKnight's poor rookie year and LT entering his final season.)

A lot of the other guys here I just don't know as they were all rookies last year. There are a lot of guys that could have been taken at our picks as well, but I really think we should have been more offense heavy these years over anything, so eh..
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 46833
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Arian Foster was available at RB in that draft, but no one knew he would be this good.

Even though I think Sanchez has been a disappointment, I don't think that was a terrible pick. Yeah, I would have loved a Brian Orakpo or Hakeem Nicks, but we needed a QB and we got the guy who has turned out to be the best of the one remaining. Even if Sanchez is gone after this season, he still contributed to our success in 2009 and 2010. We would not have made it that far with Kellen Clemens or Brett Ratliff at QB.

I still think Ducasses can turn into a solid player at guard and Kyle Wilson can be a decent corner, but the 2010 draft sucked. After four straigh years of trading up in the first round, Tanny decided to play it conservative and it backfired. Even though a lot of the players taken after Wilson have turned out to be busts, the Wilson pick was not a good one. I think we drafted Conner earlier than a FB should be drafted and we ignored some important needs when we used a 4th on a gimmicky player (McKnight).

I am a huge fan of the 2011 draft. I think Wilkerson and Ellis can form 2/3 of a very good DL for years to come. Bilal Powell seems to be at least a solid 3rd down back and he could possibly be more than that. Jeremy Kerley has made a huge impact at WR and on special teams. That was a great get in the 5th round.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
I'm so confident in the Skins this season (offensively), I think they challenge the Patriots scoring record.
Call it a hunch. Idea
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Colt45fool


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Posts: 5719
Location: New Haven, CT
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That 2010 draft is haunting us right now though. All of those picks and very little if anything to show for it. Simply taking a McCluster or Best over Wilson means a LOT for our offense right now and how explosive it could be.
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jimbo1904


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2337
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colt45fool wrote:
jimbo1904 wrote:
We have a lot of holes and QB is one of them. The root of this is that we just don't have the talent to make sanchez effective and sanchez isn't talented enough to make others effective.
So how did we get to this point? Coaching... maybe a little? Players regressing... a few? I thinks its about talent and evaluation/drafting. We got old AND stopped drafting jet-like players: team guys that didn't cause penalties, fundamentally were sound, and that didn't make mental mistakes. We draft too much on high risk.

I would like to see IF SOMEONE could find the info and compare the draft classes of rex's era to mangini's. See how the players pan out. It would also be cool to see the 5 players behind the ones we chose in the past 3 years to see how they are doing- meaning the we could of had guys but didn't.
It's not really difficult to do. Everyone knows how the Mangini picks worked in comparison to the Ryan picks. Here's the short version: the Ryan picks sucked. They didn't fill needs and they didn't even pan out to be great players. I'm almost positive that not one Ryan drafted player has gone to a pro bowl outside of special teams play. Meanwhile, Revis, Mangold, Leon Washington (and I think) Harris have had their pro bowl seasons. They've had about the same amount of time to be judged for draft picks as well...3 seasons worth.

As far as who was available for the Ryan drafts...well, let's see...

2009: Sanchez (1st), Greene (3rd), Slauson (6th)

Not a bad haul in hindsight. We needed a QB and Clemens wasn't the answer. Even if we skipped on Sanchez we'd have taken Freeman later whom has yet to prove himself. In hindsight, considering our needs going into this draft we could have rolled the dice on someone like Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Clay Matthews or Hakeem Nicks depending on if we stay put (21st pick) or if we move up slightly.

As far as the rest of the draft, we could have taken a Mike Wallace over Shonn Greene, but realistically there's no better pick at RB by the third round. Some guys have shown flashes (Glen Coffee, Andre Brown) but nothing more than what Greene has shown. Slauson was great value

2010: Kyle Wilson (1st) Ducasse (2nd) Joe Mcknight (4th) John Conner (5th)

This draft is just one big LOL. Realistically, every pick here is probably a miss. Jahvid Best if healthy could be a nice 1-2 punch with Greene in the first round. He's also versatile. Dexter McCluster is a do-it-all RB and WR tweener that we could have taken as a playmaker in the first. Gronkowski was taken in the 2nd round also...could have been ours in the first to pair with Keller.

Ducasse was taken in the 2nd round. It made sense at the time. We could have had Navorro Bowman here though to pair with David Harris for the future. McKnight in the 4th could easily be Aaron Henandez in the 4th though he makes little sense to have with Keller. I don't really think the McKnight pick was a waste as he's turned into a pretty solid special teams/jack-o-all-trades type player.

If we take McCluster or Best in the first and McKnight here, our offense becomes really versatile and leaves Sanchez with plenty of options. A 1-2 punch of Best-Greene with Edwards/HOlmes out wide, Keller at TE and McKnight/Cotchery in the slots...or maybe McCluster-Greene as a 1-2 punch with McCluster being able to come out in the slot and Edwards/Holmes outside. This whole draft is pretty bad and it's a shame what we could have done with it. Legitimately taking a McCluster or Best over Wilson shores up our running game and gives us a play maker which would be really useful. Even leaving things the same now, we could have a WR core of Holmes-McCluster-Hill or a RB core of Powell-McCluster-Greene which looks immediately better than what we have now.

2011: Wilkerson (1st), Ellis (3rd), Powell (4th), Kerley (5th), McElroy (7th), Scotty McKnight (7th)

Looking at it now, this isn't a terrible draft. Let's disregard all the moves before and assume we go in losing Edwards, Jenkins, Woody and Cotchery. Torrey Smith and Titus Young were taken after Wilkerson. Considering how much we lost at WR and how much failure was in the signings of Burress/Mason I think bringing in Burress and drafting a Smith/Young could be a good bet here. Kenrick Ellis was taken towards the end of the third round and while not a bad pick it only added diversity to a pretty good DL. We could have taken a guy like Roy Helu here to shore up the backfield for the future (esp. considering McKnight's poor rookie year and LT entering his final season.)

A lot of the other guys here I just don't know as they were all rookies last year. There are a lot of guys that could have been taken at our picks as well, but I really think we should have been more offense heavy these years over anything, so eh..


wow, i was coming home from work thinking i had to put all the effort in. Thanks! I think its very clear- but I kinda wanted to see how things played out.
I actually just watched an espn with Mangini, Stephen A, and Skip (i know i know), but they actually said some smart things!!! I hate those 2 (not mangini) but they put the emphasis on Tanny's poor job and how sanchez, while not good, didnt have a chance with the talent this offense has. Go to espn.com/nfl and click on 'medicore mark'
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 12743
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still stand by the Kyle Wilson pick, he was probably the BPA that's not a running back (I would never take a RB in the first round) and the other talent around in positions we needed wasn't that great.

Rex's picks haven't been that bad (they haven't been great either).

2011 I think will be a great draft: two future starters (Wilk and Ellis) and two player who might become starters (Powell and Kerley) and a back up QB. I like that draft. 2010 while bad we were put in a bad position. The only terrible selection in that draft was Ducasse terrible value for him. We could've traded up slightly for Tate, Gerhart, or Sean Lee (all player I wanted) or picked up a decent WR that was still available. 09 wasn't great because Sanchez isn't panning out but we need to change QB and he was probably the best option available
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