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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Do you have your eyes on anyone?

I kind of would like to add Byrd. He is my main FA target this off-season.


I like Rambo if we want a playmaker. Bit of a history, but nothing too bad that we should worry about. The ball just seems to fly towards his hands
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.


TSSS, did you see the four mocks I quickly put together with different 'strategies'? Your thoughts on them?
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPA approach even though it doesn't address the OL.

Star should be a star for years to come. Moore has great potential as an OLB in the 3-4. Adding them to a defence that includes Ware, Lee, and the secondary could position the Boys to be this decade's Baltimore Ravens.

I like Murray, and I'm a firm believer that the Boys need to draft a QB this year and start developing an heir to Romo. If Murray doesn't work out in 2 or 3 years, then the team should still have time to draft another QB.

The need-based draft isn't bad either.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.

I think this team really is in a position for being selective. We have the talent on this team, we just need to bring it all together. I would be so happy if we traded Dez Bryant and got a new WR. I know it is against what we all believe what Championship teams always talk about how their team never felt closer and I feel personalities such as Dez Bryant is keeping us from that. Take Dez out and think of how much closer this offense could be and more focused because they don't have to worry about him.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Would you really have been comfortable with that from an organizational standpoint, though? Especially with DeCastro being available? There's a world of difference in talent between him and those other guys, and DeCastro hadn't even taken an NFL snap. Why take the risk of remaining on the cheap when protecting Romo is crucial? I just don't see the logic.


I don't really look at is being cheap. I look at it as they stuck with their board and went with BPA. Had we not traded up, they likely would have taken Michael Brockers. While I like him, I think Claiborne is the better player.

DeCastro ended up not being selected until the 24th overall pick. Numerous other teams passed on him. Starting players come from all rounds in the draft. Sure, your odds increase with first and second round talent, but nothing is a given. I mean, the two best guards in the league (Nicks and Evans) were taken in the 4th and 5th rounds. Maybe in two years, Arkin or Kowalski are looked at as better players than DeCastro?

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Again, was that worth the risk? You know that I'll take risks in certain areas, but you also know that I won't take any risks with respect to the lines. You can't go cheap on o-line or d-line because your team will fall apart.


I agree, but as far as the o-line...see my post above. In regards to the defensive line, the team did grab Tyrone Crawford in the 3rd. Crawford was regarded highly by many draft pundits, and some have labeled him as a steal. He's being worked in slowly in certain packages right now and as the season goes on I expect him to make an impact.

Quote:
And what about Romo's two meltdowns which led to 2 losses? Had he not had two massive brain cramps against Detroit and the Jets, we would've been 10-6, won the NFCE and been in the playoffs. That, coupled with the decaying play on o-line suggested the need for help there, too.

Granted, there's no question that our secondary was trash last year. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. But, it's not like our d-line was anything special, either. We had no pass rush, which made it harder on our secondary to perform. Plus, our o-line was garbage. So what did we do? We used two premium picks on a DB AFTER signing another one to a huge contract and then drafted guys who were poor fits for a 3-4 defense and ignored the o-line because we went on the cheap in free agency.

How did that work out for us?


Our defense hasn't really been the issue this season, so I'd say it all depends on how you look at it. Would you rather have an offense that can score points, but is constantly getting into shootouts because it's defense can't close out a win...or the opposite?
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.

I think this team really is in a position for being selective. We have the talent on this team, we just need to bring it all together. I would be so happy if we traded Dez Bryant and got a new WR. I know it is against what we all believe what Championship teams always talk about how their team never felt closer and I feel personalities such as Dez Bryant is keeping us from that. Take Dez out and think of how much closer this offense could be and more focused because they don't have to worry about him.


Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
Why do people keep giving up DL so early? I believe we have our future at DL already on the roster.

Lissemore - Brent - Crawford

We on the other hand to not have the future at Safety, OL, QB, OLB, WR


J, do you not feel confident in Church?

I do like Church. I am not very confident in him being healthy, but I do feel we need to replace Sensabaugh ASAP. He is a SS playing FS and we need a playmaker now at that position.


Do you have your eyes on anyone?

I kind of would like to add Byrd. He is my main FA target this off-season.


I like Rambo if we want a playmaker. Bit of a history, but nothing too bad that we should worry about. The ball just seems to fly towards his hands

I will have to do some scouting as well, because I truely have only watched film on Lester, Jones, Warmack, and Fluker. Which are all fringe 1st rounders. If it came to it and we didn't go towards the ZBS. I would love to get Fluker to be our RG.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?


I think some of the offensive issues can be placed on Garrett as a playcaller. He seems to consistently ask guys to do things that they either can't do or aren't comfortable with doing yet.

This is where a new offensive coordinator would come in handy. Hopefully, after this season, we'll see that addressed.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.

I think this team really is in a position for being selective. We have the talent on this team, we just need to bring it all together. I would be so happy if we traded Dez Bryant and got a new WR. I know it is against what we all believe what Championship teams always talk about how their team never felt closer and I feel personalities such as Dez Bryant is keeping us from that. Take Dez out and think of how much closer this offense could be and more focused because they don't have to worry about him.


This team isn't Cleveland, but I don't think this team has the high-end talent that others see. There are some top-notch and even elite talents (Ware, Lee, Romo) but some of the core guys are ageing and on the downswing (Witten and Ratliff in particular) while others are still too unproven (Claiborne, Smith, Bryant, Murray, Carter). The supporting cast also isn't that great but more like average with the exception of a couple of players (Carr).

This is why I think the team cannot be selective at the draft. The focus should always be on BPA because injuries happen, guys suddenly see a dramatic decline in production, prospects bust, etc. And you want to create a team of All Pros at every position, not just building around a few. This has been the biggest philosophical mistake of the team IMO. You just don't want All Pros at the skilled positions; you need them at all positions. The most successful teams tend to have All Pro candidates at QB, one of the skilled positions (WR, RB, TE), OL, DL, LB, and DB.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?


I think some of the offensive issues can be placed on Garrett as a playcaller. He seems to consistently ask guys to do things that they either can't do or aren't comfortable with doing yet.

This is where a new offensive coordinator would come in handy. Hopefully, after this season, we'll see that addressed.


I agree with Des. There is talent on offensive, but the system doesn't fit the skills of the players except for Romo and Witten. The OL clearly isn't suited for the man-to-man blocking scheme, and the WRs are players who can run after the catch, but they're running timing patterns instead of quick slants and quick outs.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?


I think some of the offensive issues can be placed on Garrett as a playcaller. He seems to consistently ask guys to do things that they either can't do or aren't comfortable with doing yet.

This is where a new offensive coordinator would come in handy. Hopefully, after this season, we'll see that addressed.


Which is fine. But Dez dropping passing that hit him in the hands and chest fall squarely on him.

It's actually interesting to view how the offense staff is approaching this team. They seemingly are attempting to get the pieces to put players in a position to succeed. I bring this up because of Miles. Austin is a talented player for us - no doubt, but on 3 WR downs they are actively trying to put him on the inside to excel. There has been a really poor example of execution by our team. And we are not there yet, but there are defiantly some concepts I like that we are doing on offense.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
JWingate wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
BPA all the way even if it's a QB, WR, LT... This team isn't in the position to be selective. We've seen what that strategy has gotten us over the past 18 years.

I think this team really is in a position for being selective. We have the talent on this team, we just need to bring it all together. I would be so happy if we traded Dez Bryant and got a new WR. I know it is against what we all believe what Championship teams always talk about how their team never felt closer and I feel personalities such as Dez Bryant is keeping us from that. Take Dez out and think of how much closer this offense could be and more focused because they don't have to worry about him.


Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?

I am just like you, I am excited what he can do with his talent but this should be the year he puts it all together. I for one didn't get to live through the Irvin years to where I could remember or experience emotions. I did live through the T.O. years and that might be my problem only experiencing a train wreck. I just feel this team needs to be more of a family and it could become a great team and with Dez needing security and mental lapses are ruining that, but I would love to see him on this team and figuring it out. I don't have a mock off season in place, but I will take it a game at a time and then at the end of the year watch all of his games and com e up with an overall consensus .
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?


I think some of the offensive issues can be placed on Garrett as a playcaller. He seems to consistently ask guys to do things that they either can't do or aren't comfortable with doing yet.

This is where a new offensive coordinator would come in handy. Hopefully, after this season, we'll see that addressed.


Which is fine. But Dez dropping passing that hit him in the hands and chest fall squarely on him.

It's actually interesting to view how the offense staff is approaching this team. They seemingly are attempting to get the pieces to put players in a position to succeed. I bring this up because of Miles. Austin is a talented player for us - no doubt, but on 3 WR downs they are actively trying to put him on the inside to excel. There has been a really poor example of execution by our team. And we are not there yet, but there are defiantly some concepts I like that we are doing on offense.


I won't argue that. They are trying to do some things and on some plays it comes down to a lack of execution (which Witten has pointed out) as to why we aren't able to succeed.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Ignoring Talent - since that's a major positive in Dez' favor. I want to see him succeed because I see something very similar in him that I saw in the Playmaker. Passion. Grit. Never-giving up attitude. Recall under Wade how it seemed the whole team had just given up and mailed the season. Dez was out there fighting for inches - not even yards, inches! His production has been awful. His mental lapses have been disconcerting. However, those are fixable things. If he does - I am excited to see what can come out of it. And I am someone that hated the Dez pick. Plus I just don't see the value.

So do you have a mini-mock-off-season in mind? Trade Dez for what? Sign who? Draft what?


I think some of the offensive issues can be placed on Garrett as a playcaller. He seems to consistently ask guys to do things that they either can't do or aren't comfortable with doing yet.

This is where a new offensive coordinator would come in handy. Hopefully, after this season, we'll see that addressed.


Which is fine. But Dez dropping passing that hit him in the hands and chest fall squarely on him.

It's actually interesting to view how the offense staff is approaching this team. They seemingly are attempting to get the pieces to put players in a position to succeed. I bring this up because of Miles. Austin is a talented player for us - no doubt, but on 3 WR downs they are actively trying to put him on the inside to excel. There has been a really poor example of execution by our team. And we are not there yet, but there are defiantly some concepts I like that we are doing on offense.

I agree with Dez. During the game vs the Bears we were having OL problem and Murray was willing to fight. Why not through a few screens, to see if we could get Murray in some space.
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