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bzane


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 630
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
G wrote:
YUCK!!!
I couldn't keep watching and if were keeping this ZBS, then I'd see what we can get for Wiz and JV. Two young talented power players last year that should have some value.
Personally I'd rather get rid of the ZBS but I doubt that happens. So draft a bunch of ZBS types and steal a FA or 3 from other ZBS teams.



Wiz problem seems to be the switch to centre. He's just getting man handled by the bigger tackles unless he's getting help.


Can I ask something about Stefan Wisniewski, as a fan who does not get to watch the Raiders much?

Last year, in his rookie season, it seemed like he was doing really well, as a guard, and the plan was to move him back to his college position, center, where he would do even better.

I remember reading about him as a prospect coming out of college, and the consensus was that he was a skilled technician (well-schooled by his father) and a big-effort guy; if there was any criticism of Wisniewski, is that he was undersized and underpowered. Perhaps not big enough nor strong enough to take on NFL-sized defensive tackles one-on-one.

What I'm reading this year seems to bear out the knocks held against him before he was drafted. Unlikely that Wisniewski will get any bigger or stronger- no one claimed he had a frame with room to grow- so: what are the long-term projections for Stefan Wisniewski?
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bzane wrote:
Raidin wrote:
G wrote:
YUCK!!!
I couldn't keep watching and if were keeping this ZBS, then I'd see what we can get for Wiz and JV. Two young talented power players last year that should have some value.
Personally I'd rather get rid of the ZBS but I doubt that happens. So draft a bunch of ZBS types and steal a FA or 3 from other ZBS teams.



Wiz problem seems to be the switch to centre. He's just getting man handled by the bigger tackles unless he's getting help.


Can I ask something about Stefan Wisniewski, as a fan who does not get to watch the Raiders much?

Last year, in his rookie season, it seemed like he was doing really well, as a guard, and the plan was to move him back to his college position, center, where he would do even better.

I remember reading about him as a prospect coming out of college, and the consensus was that he was a skilled technician (well-schooled by his father) and a big-effort guy; if there was any criticism of Wisniewski, is that he was undersized and underpowered. Perhaps not big enough nor strong enough to take on NFL-sized defensive tackles one-on-one.
What I'm reading this year seems to bear out the knocks held against him before he was drafted. Unlikely that Wisniewski will get any bigger or stronger- no one claimed he had a frame with room to grow- so: what are the long-term projections for Stefan Wisniewski?


Thats a good point, I can remember hearing that pre-draft also. However, last season we played a PBS on OL and he seemed to do reasonably well for a rookie, especially at guard where in a PBS typically you have bigger 'mauler' type guys. This year the ZBS has come in and is designed (as i take it) to allow for more athletic, smaller linemen to move the defenders around and use their strength against them, maybe Wiz was part of the consideration when changing over schemes but as of now he seems more suited to the PBS which goes against the pre draft talk.........

Also, have to remember that Wiz missed all of camp with injury and probably was only 75% fit the first couple of games and of course it is a new system which is renown for being something that requires unity, cohesion and technique. I think its something that he should be able to excel at once we get an upgrade or two and the line beds in, this of course not being a quick solution.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5821
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy the injury as an issue, because he played all of last year with something torn in his shoulder and we never even heard about it.

I genuinely buy the possibility he's just a much better fit at Guard. Or Perhaps that the mental necessities of the center position are demanding for him right now because of the time he missed in a new system, and having to be the line leader in that system. I could see how that is affecting his instinctual play by having to think too much.

Last year, in a position of not having to think too much, not having to call the line, and having had a camp to learn his role, he was a pretty darn good guard - with a shoulder tear all year.

This year, at a new position with far more responsibility, having missed the camp time sorely needed to learn the new position, lead the line, and learn a new system, his play has diminished significantly. All while healthy.


Something doesn't add up here and it's the usual stuff a fan overlooks. It takes time to learn to play games in the NFL, getting to the point of knowing your position and scheme enough to let instinct take over. Instincts matter, not thinking too much and play in a reactive state matters, changes in position and scheme matter, rhythm matters, cohesion matters, and so on. All the finer points of good and winning football that coaches understand and fans stick their head in the sand in regards to.

I would be very surprised if his play does not improve as the year goes on and in the next year. He was good before, and I believe what is keeping him from being good now is the loss of time he needed to take hold of his role which has changed markedly. That change is still ongoing. Right about now is when camp would have ended for him - 6 weeks. If he isn't a better player in week 17 than he appears now, then maybe it is cause for concern.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3984
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off the Raiders are going more to power blocking.

Quote:
Already they are shifting to more power runs. Not sure if they'll make the full transition this season.
by scorkran October 23 at 3:13 PM


Second Raiders won't be trading JV,Wiz or D-Mac.
What happens if the GM trades D-Mac on the recommendation of the coaches and then he rushes for 1,400 yards. That's right they get fired. The same goes for JV and Wiz.
Quote:
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the Raiders really shifting to more power based running? Seems like a desperation move by Knapp. I think he knows he's on the hot seat with how poor the rushing attack is, so instead of continuing to implement his ZBS, he's opting for what's worked in the past. Can't say I mind it, but I'm still not confident in his play calling. Hopefully the offense can make some strides.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Are the Raiders really shifting to more power based running? Seems like a desperation move by Knapp. I think he knows he's on the hot seat with how poor the rushing attack is, so instead of continuing to implement his ZBS, he's opting for what's worked in the past. Can't say I mind it, but I'm still not confident in his play calling. Hopefully the offense can make some strides.



Steve Corkoran is an idiot so I wouldn't take him word for it. It would make little sense to switch to the PBS at this stage, you'd think we would have done it after the bye week.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a video of McFaddens runs against the Broncos last year. Will try get a few more of last years games up.

https://vimeo.com/52179757
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Are the Raiders really shifting to more power based running? Seems like a desperation move by Knapp. I think he knows he's on the hot seat with how poor the rushing attack is, so instead of continuing to implement his ZBS, he's opting for what's worked in the past. Can't say I mind it, but I'm still not confident in his play calling. Hopefully the offense can make some strides.



Steve Corkoran is an idiot so I wouldn't take him word for it. It would make little sense to switch to the PBS at this stage, you'd think we would have done it after the bye week.



You can see more power running plays in the game especially in short yard situations.
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RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?


Doubtful. He was only an assistant. I think Bob Wylie was a pretty good OLine coach last year though.
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 3969
Location: Pallet Town
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?


Doubtful. He was only an assistant. I think Bob Wylie was a pretty good OLine coach last year though.

+1

It's tough to judge on assistant coaches because you don't really know what they teach or how they coach, but after hearing Wylie talk to the media last year, I was really impressed. He sounded really knowledgeable & talked a lot about how physics were important to blocking, as well as what it took to be a successful lineman. The results we had with our OL speaks for itself.

Losing Steve Wisniewski was a big loss too. I'm starting to believe the switch to ZBS is the reason he truly resigned. It just makes too much sense.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?


Doubtful. He was only an assistant. I think Bob Wylie was a pretty good OLine coach last year though.

+1

It's tough to judge on assistant coaches because you don't really know what they teach or how they coach, but after hearing Wylie talk to the media last year, I was really impressed. He sounded really knowledgeable & talked a lot about how physics were important to blocking, as well as what it took to be a successful lineman. The results we had with our OL speaks for itself.

Losing Steve Wisniewski was a big loss too. I'm starting to believe the switch to ZBS is the reason he truly resigned. It just makes too much sense.



Yea wanting to spent more time with his family makes no sense. Laughing
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Professor Oak wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
i wonder if wiz 1.0 not coaching the o-line anymore is a reason for the slump?


Doubtful. He was only an assistant. I think Bob Wylie was a pretty good OLine coach last year though.

+1

It's tough to judge on assistant coaches because you don't really know what they teach or how they coach, but after hearing Wylie talk to the media last year, I was really impressed. He sounded really knowledgeable & talked a lot about how physics were important to blocking, as well as what it took to be a successful lineman. The results we had with our OL speaks for itself.

Losing Steve Wisniewski was a big loss too. I'm starting to believe the switch to ZBS is the reason he truly resigned. It just makes too much sense.



Yea wanting to spent more time with his family makes no sense. Laughing

If you buy that, to each their own.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7395
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bzane wrote:
Raidin wrote:
G wrote:
YUCK!!!
I couldn't keep watching and if were keeping this ZBS, then I'd see what we can get for Wiz and JV. Two young talented power players last year that should have some value.
Personally I'd rather get rid of the ZBS but I doubt that happens. So draft a bunch of ZBS types and steal a FA or 3 from other ZBS teams.



Wiz problem seems to be the switch to centre. He's just getting man handled by the bigger tackles unless he's getting help.


Can I ask something about Stefan Wisniewski, as a fan who does not get to watch the Raiders much?

Last year, in his rookie season, it seemed like he was doing really well, as a guard, and the plan was to move him back to his college position, center, where he would do even better.

I remember reading about him as a prospect coming out of college, and the consensus was that he was a skilled technician (well-schooled by his father) and a big-effort guy; if there was any criticism of Wisniewski, is that he was undersized and underpowered. Perhaps not big enough nor strong enough to take on NFL-sized defensive tackles one-on-one.

What I'm reading this year seems to bear out the knocks held against him before he was drafted. Unlikely that Wisniewski will get any bigger or stronger- no one claimed he had a frame with room to grow- so: what are the long-term projections for Stefan Wisniewski?


Perhaps Wiz is what the scouts thought he was?

He was considered a reach by most evaluators when he was drafted and in reality the only thing Wiz really showed was promise as he had a poor statistical season that would be typical of a rookie. I like Wiz but he is more revelled for his caricature rather than his actual production. I was one of the few who always wanted to see wiz at C. Imo, his upside is limited and he will have to make his career as an ZBS OC.

If he can stay healthy I believe Wiz can be a slight upgrade over Satele physically but can also be a valuable asset to young signal caller. Again, just a hunch but I believe Wiz 1.0 resigned because he whiffed on Bergs and Wiz has learned everything he can from his Pro-Bowl Uncle. Maybe Wiz 2.0 is just solid. For me that's enough.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
First off the Raiders are going more to power blocking.

Quote:
Already they are shifting to more power runs. Not sure if they'll make the full transition this season.
by scorkran October 23 at 3:13 PM


Second Raiders won't be trading JV,Wiz or D-Mac.
What happens if the GM trades D-Mac on the recommendation of the coaches and then he rushes for 1,400 yards. That's right they get fired. The same goes for JV and Wiz.
Quote:


Idk I know DA has said that he wants to run ZBS it would be pretty stupid to give up on it halfway through the season when it takes years to develop.

Also if it makes your team better anyone can be traded. At this point DMC isn't helping us out if we can get a pick or two for him it doesn't hurt us if he goes somewhere and beasts out. Unless we trade him to an NFC team and the kick the Crap out of us in the Super Bowl. Just take a look at the cowboys in the 90s, they traded hersel walker, got a bunch of picks and drafted a team that went to 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.
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