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Will AJ Green surpass Megatron
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5382
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
Bowe ahead of Green??????

Either you are a Chiefs fan or you are pulling our leg.


Before this season started, you werent saying that. He is playing like one of the best WRs in football. But also Matt Ryan is playing like the best QB in football. See the similarity.


Ha, really? How would you know I said that? I didn't consider AJ Green a top-3 WR or anything prior to the season, but I absolutely considered him better than Bowe.

My list of WRs looked like this:

Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Hakeem Nicks
Andre Johnson
Brandon Marshall
Roddy White
AJ Green
Greg Jennings
Julio Jones
Wes Welker
Dwayne Bowe

For what its worth, I expected a huge year out of Ryan before the season started (as did a lot of people).


Fair enough. Thats your opinion.

Im just saying, i didnt have him ranked higher than Bowe.


Thats not at all what you said. You said I didnt have him ranked higher than Bowe before the season started, and thats a pretty bold assumption considering I've never mentioned the subject anywhere on this site before.

I'm not a Bengals fan, I have no bias towards Green or against Bowe. I've watched Bowe more than most non-KC fans since he plays for a rival. He is a good WR no doubt, but Green is more talented than he is. Coming out of college scouts and fans drooled over him as much as they did Calvin Johnson, and that talent has been translating on the field ever since he stepped on it. I dont remember anyone touting Bowe during the draft, or since for that matter, aside from one year.

Even statistically speaking, Green's rookie season was every bit as good as any of Bowe's, save for the 15 TDs he had in 2010. Green nearly matched Bowe's career high in yardage on less catches as a rookie- and with about 75% less drops. Those 15 TDs were great, but they were clearly a fluke. If you look at his career, his 2nd best season yielded 7 TDs (already matched by Green) and the rest of them were between 3 and 5. Stats certainly arent everything, situations, QBs, offenses, etc all factor into them. But judging by everything I've seen, I like Green better than Bowe, last year included.
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 13054
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:
reckless123 wrote:

Fair enough. Thats your opinion.

Im just saying, i didnt have him ranked higher than Bowe.


Thats not at all what you said. You said I didnt have him ranked higher than Bowe before the season started, and thats a pretty bold assumption considering I've never mentioned the subject anywhere on this site before.

I'm not a Bengals fan, I have no bias towards Green or against Bowe. I've watched Bowe more than most non-KC fans since he plays for a rival. He is a good WR no doubt, but Green is more talented than he is. Coming out of college scouts and fans drooled over him as much as they did Calvin Johnson, and that talent has been translating on the field ever since he stepped on it. I dont remember anyone touting Bowe during the draft, or since for that matter, aside from one year.

Even statistically speaking, Green's rookie season was every bit as good as any of Bowe's, save for the 15 TDs he had in 2010. Green nearly matched Bowe's career high in yardage on less catches as a rookie- and with about 75% less drops. Those 15 TDs were great, but they were clearly a fluke. If you look at his career, his 2nd best season yielded 7 TDs (already matched by Green) and the rest of them were between 3 and 5. Stats certainly arent everything, situations, QBs, offenses, etc all factor into them. But judging by everything I've seen, I like Green better than Bowe, last year included.


Im talking in general, i read your post on your WR rankings. And i accepted your opinion

Furthermore, i dont think dwyane bowe's 15 TD were a fluke because look at his QB statistics or even play for that matter during his career. The one time bowe has a 10+ TD season, Cassel has a career year.

I just think with a competent QB, Bowe will show his true play. Who would i take Green or Bowe? Green probably but Green has only displayed his ability for a season and a quarter. Its not like hes playing at a JJ Watt level that is enough to elevate him over receivers who have played at a level similar to green now for a good length of time.
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ukdolfan


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green had a real issue with getting held up and the ball stripped on Sunday. It will be interesting to see if other teams look to and are able to take advantage of that in the next few weeks.
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TheVillain112


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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ukdolfan wrote:
Green had a real issue with getting held up and the ball stripped on Sunday. It will be interesting to see if other teams look to and are able to take advantage of that in the next few weeks.


Don't know if I'd call that a "real issue", but yeah he does need to protect the ball better.

Still he has 2 fumbles so far in his career and zero lost. Compare that to Megatron who in 6 seasons has 9 fumbles with 5 lost. Not sure it's a major issue at this point for Green...
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Last edited by TheVillain112 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5382
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
Furthermore, i dont think dwyane bowe's 15 TD were a fluke because look at his QB statistics or even play for that matter during his career. The one time bowe has a 10+ TD season, Cassel has a career year.


Which is why its called a fluke...

Obviously a WR will thrive when his QB has a career year, and a QB will likely thrive when a WR plays at his highest level. So it takes good QB play, good WR play, the right playcalling, and the right situations in-game. Thats why I said they were fluky. I never said he is not capable of another double-digit season, I said his 15 TD season was a fluke because it is not the norm for him. Thats not a knock on him, nor am I ignoring the effect his QB has on him. I never said he wont get double digits again, I'm simply saying that those 15 TDs were a fluke until he starts doing it more regularly.


Jordy Nelson- 15 TDs in 2011, next best is 2, on pace for less than 4 this year
Brandon Marshall- 10 in 2009, next best: 7, 6, 3, 2
Vernon Davis- 13 in 2009, next best: 7, 6, 4, 3, 2
Steve Smith- 12 in 2005, next best: 8, 7, 6, 3, 2, 1
Muhsin Muhammad- 16 in 2004, next best: 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 1
Laurent Robinson- 11 in 2011, next best: 2, 1
Brandon Lloyd- 11 in 2010, next best: 6, 5, 2, 1
Mike Williams- 11 in 2010, next best: 3, 2
Marcedes Lewis- 10 in 2010, next best: 2, 1
Visanthe Schiancoe- 11 in 2009, next best: 7, 3, 2, 1
TJ Housh- 12 in 2007, next best: 9, 7, 4, 3, 1
Reggie Williams- 10 in 2007, next best: 4, 3, 1

Dwayne Bowe- 15 in 2010, next best: 7, 5, 4, 3

There is a wide range of QBs that threw those guys I listed: Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, and Brett Favre all the way to David Garrard and Alex Smith (circa 2009). The odds of those guys doing it again are low, because history has shown that they just dont score a lot of TDs. Calvin Johnson has hit double digits in 3 of his 5 seasons. Larry Fitzgerald has had 8+ in 6 of his 8 seasons, including 4 in double digits. Greg Jennings had 9+ in 4 of 6 seasons. Roddy White has 3 straight seasons with 8+, including 2 in double digits. Those numbers are not flukes, because it is what they normally do. Calvin and Fitz did it with bad QBs, and with good QBs, so its reasonable to believe they will usually get a lot of TDs. Bowe is not as good as those guys, nor is he a dominating player who can collect TDs regardless of his QB. When a guy who has only gone over 7 TDs once in 6 seasons, its a fluke until he proves otherwise.
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