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Poetic Justice for Brees
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The Cryptkeeper


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
He can have all the poetic justice he wants. The real poetic justice is that his team is 0-4.


And during that 48 game TD streak, he was the main reason they won a Super Bowl and have been one of the most exciting teams in the league. This will also eliminate any doubt that he's a Hall of Fame QB. Not bad garnish to owning one of the sport's most prestigious records.

If a 4 game losing streak is somehow karmic retribution, you could sign me up for that kind of poetic justice 24/7. Laughing
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
He can have all the poetic justice he wants. The real poetic justice is that his team is 0-4.

That has more to do with his defense then him. He would be 3-1 right now if defense played better.


Brees has not played that well. Even if the D sucks, that fact still stands. Im not saying he is the sole reason they are losing because thats absurd, but Im sick of hearing this excuse.

And lets not forget that 3 of those losses were against non playoff teams.

I have no doubt they would have a better record if the defense was playing better, but outside of the Green Bay game this past week, he didnt look like "Drew Brees"....at least not consistently.

This has been become such a misconception. Brees has played fine, one of his INTs was on a Hail Mary and 2 more were when we were trying to drive with below a minute left in a game, clearly passing situations that often end in INTs. I believe the Saints lead the league in drops as well, in all seriousness Brees is the last person to blame for the Saints failures and he's played just as well as he has in years past, the only game he looked rusty in was the Washington game. People not to stop sayin this, it simply isn't true.


If thats what you choose to believe, so be it.

Thats not what Ive seen. Im not saying he has been awful, but he hasnt played up to his stanard either. Last week he looked like himself, though.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobikus wrote:
Hoping the Chargers stop him cold. Always saddens me to see a record broken by a lesser player because of how much friendlier the era is.

Lesser player? That can certainly be debated.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
He can have all the poetic justice he wants. The real poetic justice is that his team is 0-4.

That has more to do with his defense then him. He would be 3-1 right now if defense played better.


Brees has not played that well. Even if the D sucks, that fact still stands. Im not saying he is the sole reason they are losing because thats absurd, but Im sick of hearing this excuse.

And lets not forget that 3 of those losses were against non playoff teams.

I have no doubt they would have a better record if the defense was playing better, but outside of the Green Bay game this past week, he didnt look like "Drew Brees"....at least not consistently.

This has been become such a misconception. Brees has played fine, one of his INTs was on a Hail Mary and 2 more were when we were trying to drive with below a minute left in a game, clearly passing situations that often end in INTs. I believe the Saints lead the league in drops as well, in all seriousness Brees is the last person to blame for the Saints failures and he's played just as well as he has in years past, the only game he looked rusty in was the Washington game. People not to stop sayin this, it simply isn't true.


If thats what you choose to believe, so be it.

Thats not what Ive seen. Im not saying he has been awful, but he hasnt played up to his stanard either. Last week he looked like himself, though.

I'm going to go ahead and guess you saw the Redskins game and the Packers game, Brees played poorly in Washington but has been much better the last 3 games.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.
Brees will want to break that record too. He's only about himself just like he was when he broke the passing record.


Lol yeah. The team would've been much better off had he not broken those records. Laughing

Is there a player in the NFL who doesn't want to break records?


Of course every player LIKES breaking records...I just don't think there is another player in the league that cares as much about breaking useless records as Brees does...

Doesn't change anything though...he's still top 3 QB in the league.
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doomer


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.


Last 3 seasons: 13-3, 11-5, 13-3 enough said
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strat1080


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.
Brees will want to break that record too. He's only about himself just like he was when he broke the passing record.


Lol yeah. The team would've been much better off had he not broken those records. Laughing

Is there a player in the NFL who doesn't want to break records?


Of course every player LIKES breaking records...I just don't think there is another player in the league that cares as much about breaking useless records as Brees does...

Doesn't change anything though...he's still top 3 QB in the league.


I remember Drew Brees on SoundFX late in the season last year rambling on about how many offensive records the team broke. It felt really cheap when he broke Dan Marino's record. Its not that other players don't want to break records but they aren't running up the score trying to do it. Rodgers could have tied or broke Brady's TD record if he was allowed to throw more. Its not just Brees but it seems like the Saints go out of their way to rack up numbers and break records. At the time when Brees broke Marino's record he had thrown 60 more passes than Marino with one game left to play.

What irritated me is that people were acting like Brees performed better than Marino because he did it in one fewer game. You take Brees out of that dome and he isn't breaking these records. His numbers in outdoor venues are much more pedestrian. He threw for a boat load of yards last year but his efficiency numbers were not historically great in any category other than completion percentage. People get caught up too much with yards. In reality, yardage just really isn't that important. What wins games is scoring efficiency and turnover margin. Proof of that is the Green Bay Packers last year. They gave up more yards than they gained but only lost one game. That right there tells you how much yardage actually matters.
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Rejuvenation


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't call it karma or poetic justice but one way or another it is interesting how things come full circle. Brees either breaks the record against his first team or has his streak snapped by his first team. That is the interesting aspect to me.
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doomer


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

strat1080 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.
Brees will want to break that record too. He's only about himself just like he was when he broke the passing record.


Lol yeah. The team would've been much better off had he not broken those records. Laughing

Is there a player in the NFL who doesn't want to break records?


Of course every player LIKES breaking records...I just don't think there is another player in the league that cares as much about breaking useless records as Brees does...

Doesn't change anything though...he's still top 3 QB in the league.


I remember Drew Brees on SoundFX late in the season last year rambling on about how many offensive records the team broke. It felt really cheap when he broke Dan Marino's record. Its not that other players don't want to break records but they aren't running up the score trying to do it. Rodgers could have tied or broke Brady's TD record if he was allowed to throw more. Its not just Brees but it seems like the Saints go out of their way to rack up numbers and break records. At the time when Brees broke Marino's record he had thrown 60 more passes than Marino with one game left to play.

What irritated me is that people were acting like Brees performed better than Marino because he did it in one fewer game. You take Brees out of that dome and he isn't breaking these records. His numbers in outdoor venues are much more pedestrian. He threw for a boat load of yards last year but his efficiency numbers were not historically great in any category other than completion percentage. People get caught up too much with yards. In reality, yardage just really isn't that important. What wins games is scoring efficiency and turnover margin. Proof of that is the Green Bay Packers last year. They gave up more yards than they gained but only lost one game. That right there tells you how much yardage actually matters.


I always laugh when people try to detract from Brees' record. In addition to the yardage, he had the highest completion percentage ever (that's not an important efficiency #? Please.), 46 td passes to 14 int, and led his team to 13-3. There were PLENTY of blowout 4th quarters where the Saints ran the ball 3 times and punted over and over. Hell, even Chase Daniel came in on occasion. Criticize all you want but there's a reason that record stood for so long, same with Unitas' btw.

P.S. Brees vs 49ers (outdoors) in 2011 playoffs: 462 yds 4td 2int
Brees vs Seahawks (outdoors) in 2010 playoffs: 402 yds 2td 0int
etc..
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doomer wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.


And how many team wins does that count for...2? 3?

This is kind of the story of the Saints...it seems they very much care about breaking obscure records just as much as they do winning games.


Last 3 seasons: 13-3, 11-5, 13-3 enough said


haha, wow, you really proved me wrong when I said the saints weren't good...oh wait, I never said that.

And P.S....

0-4, nuff said

A saints fan should be the LAST person bringing a team's record into the conversation Laughing
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AntonioGates


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30 of the 32 NFL teams didn't offer Drew Brees a contract. The Chargers and Saints were the only teams who offered him a deal. The Chargers, with Rivers, couldn't risk offering him the guaranteed money the Saints could. The Saints were coming off a 2 or 3 win year, a franchise in ruins and nothing to build around. They took a huge risk offering a QB coming off major shoulder surgery the money they did. For them and Brees it worked out wonderful.

The Chargers had 2 outstanding QBs on the roster, and one of them had to go. And in hindsight you can argue if it was a good or bad choice, but at the time it was close to a no-brainer. Imagine if the team had resigned Brees, traded Rivers, and Brees shoulder didn't recover. Rivers goes on to be a great QB somewhere else and the Chargers return to a perennial bottom 5 team.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntonioGates wrote:
30 of the 32 NFL teams didn't offer Drew Brees a contract. The Chargers and Saints were the only teams who offered him a deal. The Chargers, with Rivers, couldn't risk offering him the guaranteed money the Saints could. The Saints were coming off a 2 or 3 win year, a franchise in ruins and nothing to build around. They took a huge risk offering a QB coming off major shoulder surgery the money they did. For them and Brees it worked out wonderful.

The Chargers had 2 outstanding QBs on the roster, and one of them had to go. And in hindsight you can argue if it was a good or bad choice, but at the time it was close to a no-brainer. Imagine if the team had resigned Brees, traded Rivers, and Brees shoulder didn't recover. Rivers goes on to be a great QB somewhere else and the Chargers return to a perennial bottom 5 team.


Exactly, I don't think Brees has any ill will towards the Chargers, and I know he and Rivers get along well.
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strat1080


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doomer wrote:
strat1080 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Break what record? the 0-4 record? I highly doubt he will be all that amped to beat them, his team will still be 1-4


With a TD pass this weekend, Brees passes Johnny U for most consecutive games with a TD pass.
Brees will want to break that record too. He's only about himself just like he was when he broke the passing record.


Lol yeah. The team would've been much better off had he not broken those records. Laughing

Is there a player in the NFL who doesn't want to break records?


Of course every player LIKES breaking records...I just don't think there is another player in the league that cares as much about breaking useless records as Brees does...

Doesn't change anything though...he's still top 3 QB in the league.


I remember Drew Brees on SoundFX late in the season last year rambling on about how many offensive records the team broke. It felt really cheap when he broke Dan Marino's record. Its not that other players don't want to break records but they aren't running up the score trying to do it. Rodgers could have tied or broke Brady's TD record if he was allowed to throw more. Its not just Brees but it seems like the Saints go out of their way to rack up numbers and break records. At the time when Brees broke Marino's record he had thrown 60 more passes than Marino with one game left to play.

What irritated me is that people were acting like Brees performed better than Marino because he did it in one fewer game. You take Brees out of that dome and he isn't breaking these records. His numbers in outdoor venues are much more pedestrian. He threw for a boat load of yards last year but his efficiency numbers were not historically great in any category other than completion percentage. People get caught up too much with yards. In reality, yardage just really isn't that important. What wins games is scoring efficiency and turnover margin. Proof of that is the Green Bay Packers last year. They gave up more yards than they gained but only lost one game. That right there tells you how much yardage actually matters.


I always laugh when people try to detract from Brees' record. In addition to the yardage, he had the highest completion percentage ever (that's not an important efficiency #? Please.), 46 td passes to 14 int, and led his team to 13-3. There were PLENTY of blowout 4th quarters where the Saints ran the ball 3 times and punted over and over. Hell, even Chase Daniel came in on occasion. Criticize all you want but there's a reason that record stood for so long, same with Unitas' btw.

P.S. Brees vs 49ers (outdoors) in 2011 playoffs: 462 yds 4td 2int
Brees vs Seahawks (outdoors) in 2010 playoffs: 402 yds 2td 0int
etc..


I mentioned the completion percentage. I said that none of his efficiency numbers were great other than completion percentage. Did you miss that? When you compare the all time great seasons by Marino, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers, Brees year falls way short in some areas. Mainly TD%. Yes he threw 46 TDs but he threw 650 passes. Marino, Manning, and Brady threw TDs at a significantly higher rate. Their TD% were all in the 8.5-8.9% range. Brees was 7.0% which isn't all that uncommon.

What I'm trying to say is that Brees numbers have a very cheap feel to them. A lot of his production comes on short underneath stuff. He's a very good intermediate and deep passer but a big chunk of his yardage last year came on dumpoffs to RBs. 23% of his passing yardage came on passes to RBs. When comparing all time great seasons his really doesn't measure up.

In 2011 just 13% of the Packers passing yardage came via RBs. In 2007 just 12% of the Patriots passing yards came via RBs. In 2004 11% of the Colts passing yardage came via RBs. In 1984 13% of the Dolphins passing yardage came via RBs.

See the difference. Brees gets a lot of cheap yards in that system on short dumpoffs to RBs. Darren Sproles played a big part in Drew Brees putting up those monster numbers last year. I see through it though. Brees is not better than Dan Marino and his season last year wasn't as good as Marino's. I don't value passing yardage as much as some people. I break down passing numbers by efficiency much more than bulk volume stats. Seriously man. 1/4 of Drew Brees passing yardage last year came from RBs. Drew Brees is one of those guys that you watch and at the end of the game simply don't remember him throwing for that much yardage. Like I said, a lot of it is cheap yardage on short underneath stuff.
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a very good article on NFL.com I read today. It talks about how Brees is partially to blame for the 0-4 start. His greed from the contract dispute harmed the team and some of their key guys walked because the team couldn't afford them along with Brees. But yeah Brees can't do any wrong and is the reason why New Orleans is still a functioning city today.
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