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Poetic Justice for Brees
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powderblues


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Lob wrote:
If Brees played on the Cowboys or one of the New York teams, this would be a HUGE HUGE deal. Just saying.


So would the 0-4 thing. It goes both ways.
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steadypimpin


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.
A home game at that.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
That doesn't explain your ridiculous claim that Brees cares about his records just as much as his teams success.


You're right....I'm sure it's all just a really big coincidence.


You're sure what's a big coincidence? That Brees is breaking records?

You claimed that Brees thought his records were just as important as the teams overall success. What are you basing that on?

What has Brees done that's hurt his team, while trying to break a record? How have any of these records hurt the Saints? What has Brees done to show you that he thinks his records are just as important as the teams success?

Simply breaking records isn't even close to enough to support your claim, especially since the Saints have been well above average since he really started breaking the records. The fact that he is breaking records doesn't prove that he thinks they're just as important as the teams overall success.


When did I say that Brees chasing the record hurt the team last season? When did I say the Saints weren't a good team last season? I haven't said any of those things.

What I am saying is that from what I and a lot of other people saw, on how they broke that record last year, it was just obvious that they really really cared about getting it.

If I remember correctly Brees broke the record throwing a TD pass with like 2 minutes left in the game up by 30 or so on the Falcons, right?

Are you seriously telling me that that is just a coincidence? That they would have done that anyways if Brees wasn't close to the record?

I'm not trying to say Brees chasing the record hurt the team...I'm saying its obvious him and Payton were chasing it and that by them chasing it it pretty much proves they definitely care about it just as much as winning because of the situation the team as whole was in at the time and how they decided to keep playing Brees. Because if they didn't, Brees wouldn't even have been out there in the 4th qtr playing and risking injury.

If they cared about the team's overall goals to win the SB over all else, they wouldn't have risked continuing to play Brees in a game they had in the bag.

That's at least how I look at it. Why risk injury for some stupid record that looks good on paper....especially when you had a whole other game to do it the next week.

It was pretty obvious they wanted to get the record in front of the home crowd, and no one can fault them for that.
Yeah but you guys had another home game to end the season the next game. Anyone who watched that game knows why they ran the score up. I know the defense has to stop it but Brees was throwing bobs that game after they were way up. He's classless and self centered. He may do charity work, a lot of players do that. It doesn't mean that he's not all about himself and his personal gains that he wants.

I used to like Brees a lot, until that Atlanta game and then with his contract dispute. He also denies the bounty thing too. He showed his true colors to the fans. Him demanding so much money is going to hurt that team in the long run. It's already starting. Karma sucks, but he can have his record, I'm sure he'll be ecstatic about it even after they probably lose against the Chargers.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
1) No I don't think Brady and BB care about personal records just as much as the teams because when the situation says run the ball, they tend to run the ball and not pass. Other than yardage and TDs there isn't much a QB can break records in that account for just himself.

I would also say that if BB had a RB like Sproles, he definitely wouldn't be passing most of the time on the GL on 1st and 2nd down. The pats FINALLY seem to have a decent run game this season and they have been running the ball like crazy, not passing, especially in this last game.

BB is known for doing whatever works best and pretty much always putting the team above all else.

Now am I blind to certain things because I'm a pats fan...OF COURSE I AM, who isn't just a little bit of a homer for their home team??? Laughing

2.) oh come on...are you really trying to put those two situations even in the same stratosphere???? After spygate came out soooo many people were talking about how the patriots only won because they cheated, Belicheat, cheatriots, blah blah blah...sorry, but Brees wanting to prove something to the teams he could have gone to is not even close to the same as spygate and BB wanting to prove all the naysayers wrong.

3.) Like I said, i can't prove anything 100%. But if it looks, smells, and barks like a dog, it tends to be a dog. From what I saw last season, with how he stayed in the game several times throughout the season when it was already sealed for a win, I tend to believe it was him and Payton really caring for that record, which really did nothing for the team as a whole.


The part of your argument that I have a problem with is that Brees and Payton find records just as important as the overall record. The bolded is the part you're tiptoeing around.

If you're saying Brees and Payton like setting records and that they think records are more important than they actually are, that's fine, that's something I can't argue. But to say they find records equally as important as the teams overall success, that's ridiculous and you can't back it by anything, add to that your clear bias that supports Brady and Belichick when they're breaking records, and your argument gets even weaker.

So I ask you again to show me anything that supports your claim that Brees and/or Payton care just as much about their records as they do the teams overall success.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
1) No I don't think Brady and BB care about personal records just as much as the teams because when the situation says run the ball, they tend to run the ball and not pass. Other than yardage and TDs there isn't much a QB can break records in that account for just himself.

I would also say that if BB had a RB like Sproles, he definitely wouldn't be passing most of the time on the GL on 1st and 2nd down. The pats FINALLY seem to have a decent run game this season and they have been running the ball like crazy, not passing, especially in this last game.

BB is known for doing whatever works best and pretty much always putting the team above all else.

Now am I blind to certain things because I'm a pats fan...OF COURSE I AM, who isn't just a little bit of a homer for their home team??? Laughing

2.) oh come on...are you really trying to put those two situations even in the same stratosphere???? After spygate came out soooo many people were talking about how the patriots only won because they cheated, Belicheat, cheatriots, blah blah blah...sorry, but Brees wanting to prove something to the teams he could have gone to is not even close to the same as spygate and BB wanting to prove all the naysayers wrong.

3.) Like I said, i can't prove anything 100%. But if it looks, smells, and barks like a dog, it tends to be a dog. From what I saw last season, with how he stayed in the game several times throughout the season when it was already sealed for a win, I tend to believe it was him and Payton really caring for that record, which really did nothing for the team as a whole.


The part of your argument that I have a problem with is that Brees and Payton find records just as important as the overall record. The bolded is the part you're tiptoeing around.

If you're saying Brees and Payton like setting records and that they think records are more important than they actually are, that's fine, that's something I can't argue. But to say they find records equally as important as the teams overall success, that's ridiculous and you can't back it by anything, add to that your clear bias that supports Brady and Belichick when they're breaking records, and your argument gets even weaker.

So I ask you again to show me anything that supports your claim that Brees and/or Payton care [b]just as much about their records as they do the teams overall success[/b].


Even though they had already guaranteed a playoff birth, they risked losing their best player and ONLY chance at going far into the playoffs by having him continue to sling it during garbage time of an already won game so that Brees could acculumate pointless yards to get the record.

That shows that they were willing to risk eliminating their ONLY shot at achieving the TEAMS overall goal for the season because they wanted that record.



I don't know how I can make it any more clear?

And why is my view so bias? Is it a little, yes of course I suppose, EVERYONE'S view is a little bias towards their favorite team, whoever says it isn't is a blatant liar.

You tried to compare BB and Brady proving Spygate was nothing to Brees proving he was really good to two teams that he CHOSE to not go to. Honestly buddy, are you really gonna say those two situations are even in the same ballpark, or even close?

BB had something to prove because of all the detractors that came outta the woodworks after spygate. Everyone was bashing the patriots because they had lost to them so much and were looking for any reason to justify losing. And some people actually bought the hype of Spygate. So what did BB and Brady and the pats do...they put on one of the most dominant shows the NFL has ever seen, if not the most dominant.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of the situation, both teams continued to pass the ball when they were up. The Patriots beat down on the Titans was a classic example. Why is it ok for the Patriots to do it but not the Saints? The Patriots were risking Tom Bradys health when he was still in the game when the Patriots were up 40 on the Titans were they not?
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Regardless of the situation, both teams continued to pass the ball when they were up. The Patriots beat down on the Titans was a classic example. Why is it ok for the Patriots to do it but not the Saints? The Patriots were risking Tom Bradys health when he was still in the game when the Patriots were up 40 on the Titans were they not?




Did you read my earlier post?

I said I hated that they kept him in with the win guaranteed.

Either way though its two very different situations....BB and Brady weren't chasing a record, they were proving EVERYONE wrong who was saying spygate is the only reason they won so much.

But just to make it very clear since you seem to enjoy overlooking certain parts of my post....

YES, I AGREE WITH YOU...IT WAS VERY STUPID TO KEEP BRADY IN DURING THE TITANS GAME AFTER THEY WERE UP BY 40.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
That shows that they were willing to risk eliminating their ONLY shot at achieving the TEAMS overall goal for the season because they wanted that record.


And I've said the exact same thing about the Patriots, but because they were trying to prove a point, they get a pass.

OK.

You've admitted that Brady and Belichick were stupid for keeping Brady in the game while the Patroits were up big on other teams, but you're giving them a pass in regards to caring about the record more than the teams success because they were out to prove a point.

So it basically boils down to the fact that the Patriots were out to prove a point. That's what gives them a pass?

Would you say that Brady and Belichick cared more about proving a point than they did the teams overall success?

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Raves


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Regardless of the situation, both teams continued to pass the ball when they were up. The Patriots beat down on the Titans was a classic example. Why is it ok for the Patriots to do it but not the Saints? The Patriots were risking Tom Bradys health when he was still in the game when the Patriots were up 40 on the Titans were they not?




Did you read my earlier post?

I said I hated that they kept him in with the win guaranteed.

Either way though its two very different situations....BB and Brady weren't chasing a record, they were proving EVERYONE wrong who was saying spygate is the only reason they won so much.

But just to make it very clear since you seem to enjoy overlooking certain parts of my post....

YES, I AGREE WITH YOU...IT WAS VERY STUPID TO KEEP BRADY IN DURING THE TITANS GAME AFTER THEY WERE UP BY 40.


Do you not think that Brady, Moss, and BB were not chasing records? How about Gronk last year where Brady kept forcing passes to Gronk to try and make sure he would finish ahead of Graham in yards even though they were winning the game quite comfortably IIRC.

You hypocrisy is rather evident here.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
That shows that they were willing to risk eliminating their ONLY shot at achieving the TEAMS overall goal for the season because they wanted that record.


And I've said the exact same thing about the Patriots, but because they were trying to prove a point, they get a pass.

OK.

You've admitted that Brady and Belichick were stupid for keeping Brady in the game while the Patroits were up big on other teams, but you're giving them a pass in regards to caring about the record more than the teams success because they were out to prove a point.

So it basically boils down to the fact that the Patriots were out to prove a point. That's what gives them a pass?

Would you say that Brady and Belichick cared more about proving a point than they did the teams overall success?


I can see what you're saying. It is simply my opinion that the pats had a much better reason to prove they were so dominant.

Literally everyone except the pats org and their fans were saying the patriots were a fraud, they weren't really good, all of their wins were undeserved. So they went out and showed that they not only could win without taping, but they could win big.

No one was doubting Brees as a QB. Nobody, at least no one with common sense, was saying Brees isn't an elite QB. Everyone knew he was great and he really had nothing to prove. He could have easily got the record the next game, but he didn't want to wait. He and Payton were willing to risk everything to get a useless record.

If we take away the situation each team was in then yes, it is pretty much the same thing and both sides are stupid for doing so. I have told you that I believe BB and Brady were dumb for playing so far into the Titans game. However I think the surrounding situation was a much better excuse to blow out opponents then the situation Brees was in, this is just my opinion. I'm not giving them a pass, I'm simply saying it wasn't AS BAD, because they were surrounded by people calling them frauds, cheats, and everything else in the book.

To answer your last question, I think that it was just as important to BB and the pats org to prove that they truly were the team that everyone thought they were before spygate, just as much as winning games. I don't think it was good enought for BB and the pats to simply win the games, I think they wanted to make everyone eat crow, which they did.

In that case its 50/50 for me personally. Part of me loves the fact that BB and co made the entire NFL world eat crow by putting together one of the most impressive runs in NFL history. They proved everyone wrong, which as a fan, I love. My other half thinks it was stupid and risky to keep brady in for so long.

Either way though, it is my PERSONAL OPINION that BB and Brady had a MUCH BETTER reason to run the score up and demolish teams than Brees and Payton did to keep playing so late in the game when they could have easily gotten the record the next week.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
To answer your last question, I think that it was just as important to BB and the pats org to prove that they truly were the team that everyone thought they were before spygate, just as much as winning games. I don't think it was good enought for BB and the pats to simply win the games, I think they wanted to make everyone eat crow, which they did.


Fair enough, as long as you acknowledge that, we've got no beef. Consistency is much more important to me than your overall opinion on the matter.

If you want to argue that Brady and BB had a better reason for doing what they did than Brees and Payton, I can live with that because at least you're not denying that Brady and BB did essentially the same thing.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Regardless of the situation, both teams continued to pass the ball when they were up. The Patriots beat down on the Titans was a classic example. Why is it ok for the Patriots to do it but not the Saints? The Patriots were risking Tom Bradys health when he was still in the game when the Patriots were up 40 on the Titans were they not?




Did you read my earlier post?

I said I hated that they kept him in with the win guaranteed.

Either way though its two very different situations....BB and Brady weren't chasing a record, they were proving EVERYONE wrong who was saying spygate is the only reason they won so much.

But just to make it very clear since you seem to enjoy overlooking certain parts of my post....

YES, I AGREE WITH YOU...IT WAS VERY STUPID TO KEEP BRADY IN DURING THE TITANS GAME AFTER THEY WERE UP BY 40.


Do you not think that Brady, Moss, and BB were not chasing records? How about Gronk last year where Brady kept forcing passes to Gronk to try and make sure he would finish ahead of Graham in yards even though they were winning the game quite comfortably IIRC.

You hypocrisy is rather evident here.


No I don't think BB, Brady, and Moss were chasing personal records. I think their main goal was to win games in a manner as to prove everyone wrong that said they were frauds, which they did.

As for the Gronk thing....the Pats and Saints game were going on at the same time and Gronk and Graham continued to break the previous record back and forth with each other as the games came to a conclusion, so yes, it was the competitive nature of both players and both coaches that kept them going for more. If Gronk or Graham weren't close to eachother, then that obviously wouldn't have happened the way it did.

No one was close to Brees by half time of the Saints game. Brady was the closest and he was a few hundred yards behind I believe. There was absolutely no reason to keep playing. Brady was not going to surpass Brees that week, not even close. Brees wasn't competing with anybody for the record, it was his and his alone.

Gronk is also the TE, not the QB. While he was a vital part of our offense, he was very rarely taken out of games early, even when Brady was taken out late. BB obviously wanted him to get as much time on the field as possible to learn considering he was still very young. It was actually the back up QB that threw the last pass to Gronk I believe.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
To answer your last question, I think that it was just as important to BB and the pats org to prove that they truly were the team that everyone thought they were before spygate, just as much as winning games. I don't think it was good enought for BB and the pats to simply win the games, I think they wanted to make everyone eat crow, which they did.


Fair enough, as long as you acknowledge that, we've got no beef. Consistency is much more important to me than your overall opinion on the matter.

If you want to argue that Brady and BB had a better reason for doing what they did than Brees and Payton, I can live with that because at least you're not denying that Brady and BB did essentially the same thing.


Absolutely...my opinion is that they just had a better reason Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
To answer your last question, I think that it was just as important to BB and the pats org to prove that they truly were the team that everyone thought they were before spygate, just as much as winning games. I don't think it was good enought for BB and the pats to simply win the games, I think they wanted to make everyone eat crow, which they did.


Fair enough, as long as you acknowledge that, we've got no beef. Consistency is much more important to me than your overall opinion on the matter.

If you want to argue that Brady and BB had a better reason for doing what they did than Brees and Payton, I can live with that because at least you're not denying that Brady and BB did essentially the same thing.


Absolutely...my opinion is that they just had a better reason Laughing


Well the Saints were still fighting for home field advantage and wanted to keep themselves firing on all cylinders for the playoffs incase they didn't get the by.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Regardless of the situation, both teams continued to pass the ball when they were up. The Patriots beat down on the Titans was a classic example. Why is it ok for the Patriots to do it but not the Saints? The Patriots were risking Tom Bradys health when he was still in the game when the Patriots were up 40 on the Titans were they not?




Did you read my earlier post?

I said I hated that they kept him in with the win guaranteed.

Either way though its two very different situations....BB and Brady weren't chasing a record, they were proving EVERYONE wrong who was saying spygate is the only reason they won so much.

But just to make it very clear since you seem to enjoy overlooking certain parts of my post....

YES, I AGREE WITH YOU...IT WAS VERY STUPID TO KEEP BRADY IN DURING THE TITANS GAME AFTER THEY WERE UP BY 40.


Wait... what? Are you talking about the 59-0 game? Did you want BB to pull Brady before the half? No one does that. If Memory serves me right, BB took him out 1 series after the half. I don't see how thats comparable to Brees vs. Atlanta in which he was throwing very late in the game.
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