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Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice.
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AmerigoCorleone


Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:
Went 1600 and 16 for a season. which is 100 yards and a touchdown average for the season which is amazing. Calvin actually averaged 105. Rice had one season he averaged 115 yards a game one season and another he averaged almost 2 tds a game but he never did that on the same season.


Jerry Rice:

1986:

Yards: 1570
Touchdowns: 15

1993:

Yards: 1503
Touchdowns: 15

1995:

Yards: 1848
Touchdowns: 15
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tonyto3690


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote:
Went 1600 and 16 for a season. which is 100 yards and a touchdown average for the season which is amazing. Calvin actually averaged 105. Rice had one season he averaged 115 yards a game one season and another he averaged almost 2 tds a game but he never did that on the same season.


Jerry Rice:

1986:

Yards: 1570
Touchdowns: 15

1993:

Yards: 1503
Touchdowns: 15

1995:

Yards: 1848
Touchdowns: 15


Cripes is that 1848 a misprint? That's insane.

Also Calvin got over 100 yard average a game because IIRC he stat padded like 700 yards the last 3 games. Impressive to be sure but they were some pretty bad pass defenses in blowouts/shootouts. In a season where passing yards were at a ridiculously and blatantly inflated rate, that deserves a bit of an asterisk in my opinion.

Regardless, even the by far best season of his career, is matched by 7 of Rice's that are equal or exceed his production.
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x0x


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny thing is. One day somebody will surpass Jerry Rice and many will call that WR the GOAT.



Hopefully us old farts will still be around to smack those people upside the head and tell them of old man Rice.



Nobody will ever touch Jerry's greatness and the only WR who came close went by the name of Sterling.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Randy Moss of 1998, 2000, 2003, the beginning of 2004, and of 2007 has already eclipsed Rice in terms of level of play.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if anyone is going to have a chance at Jerry Rice's career marks, it'll be some young guy with a work ethic. AJ Green could fit the bill as he's sort of a Larry Fitzgerald type (combination between graceful and powerful)... and he has a QB that should be relying on him for the longevity.

Probably still not going to happen, but if it's a choice between an AJ Green or Megatron/Fitz, I'll take the guy who has more time to get this done and should consistently have better QB play.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
The Randy Moss of 1998, 2000, 2003, the beginning of 2004, and of 2007 has already eclipsed Rice in terms of level of play.


ya thats nice honey but

jerry rice 1985-2004>>>>>>>>randy moss 1998-present

all you said was if randy moss wasnt an idiot and kept hes poop in a group would have been hands down the greatest wr/football player in league history.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

c0insnap wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
renndawg37 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
AmerigoCorleone wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
If anyone is to surpass Rice's bulk stats, I think Larry Fitzgerald will be in a better position. Fitz is only two years older than Johnson, but Fitz has 320 more catches, 25 more TDs and over 3000 more yards.

Fitz is the one we should keep an eye on, not Johnson. If Fitz can get better QB play the rest of his career and show the longevity to play until he is 38 or 39, I think Fitz has great potential to get very close to Rice's number.


Larry Fitzgerald would need to average 86 receptions, 1330 yards and 12.6 touchdowns for the next 10 seasons to surpass Jerry Rice's statistics.

But I see what you're saying. Larry Fitzgerald might end up with better career numbers than Calvin Johnson.


He will. Larry Fitz's game is a lot less predicated on athleticism. Yes, he can jump high but he isn't particularly fast to begin with and his hands aren't going to suddenly drop off. Easily the softest hands in the NFL, runs great routes and knows how to use his body.


I still think Fitzgerald is a better receiver than Johnson. It may be an unpopular opinion, but nobody can tell me otherwise. Fitz is the man.


I share that same opinion and the numbers back it up.


Fitz IS the best receiver in the league. People who actually watch the games and don't just look at the box scores know this. However, I disagree that Fitz has the softest hands in the league... I think that goes to Jason Witten. What Fitz does better than anyone I've seen is snatch the ball out of the air. It's quite amazing.


Witten has 6 drops already this year, leads the league.

Fitz had his first drop in like 2 years last night.
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onepostlegend


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point here will be brief. If Johnson benefits from a pass-happy league and a quarterback who's content with throwing until his arm falls off, why, exactly, can't he rattle off 6-7 consecutive seasons of 100+ catches, 1600+ yards and 15+ TDs? The disconnect in the analysis here is that people are failing to actually account for the added benefit of playing in this era, and are simply using it as a reason that his stats are "less impressive" than Rice's. They might be "less impressive" (I think they are), but with its diminished impressiveness comes its easier attainability. And who's to say the league isn't tending towards even more rules designed to increase offensive output? What if the 5 yard chuck rule is eliminated and DBs are basically forced to play off every snap? What if "incidental contact" is considered interference? Well, we might stop watching football altogether if the latter is he case, but in that world, it would certainly be conceivable that Johnson compile numbers exceeding Rice's.

Calvin Johnson is a once-in-a-generation talent who is wholly committed to his craft and wants greatness. It's unlikely, but doesn't he have the makings of a player--especially in an era where top players are productive for longer on average than ever--who could be very good well into his mid-to-late 30s? Hell, he could start playing "tight end" if he's only running a 4.6 by then.
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onepostlegend


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
The Randy Moss of 1998, 2000, 2003, the beginning of 2004, and of 2007 has already eclipsed Rice in terms of level of play.


Those versions of Randy Moss were cyborg-deities sent from the future with designs to take over the world. It was simply unreal to watch him, and it's a shame that people didn't get to see more of it.
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AmerigoCorleone


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onepostlegend wrote:
My point here will be brief. If Johnson benefits from a pass-happy league and a quarterback who's content with throwing until his arm falls off, why, exactly, can't he rattle off 6-7 consecutive seasons of 100+ catches, 1600+ yards and 15+ TDs? The disconnect in the analysis here is that people are failing to actually account for the added benefit of playing in this era, and are simply using it as a reason that his stats are "less impressive" than Rice's. They might be "less impressive" (I think they are), but with its diminished impressiveness comes its easier attainability. And who's to say the league isn't tending towards even more rules designed to increase offensive output? What if the 5 yard chuck rule is eliminated and DBs are basically forced to play off every snap? What if "incidental contact" is considered interference? Well, we might stop watching football altogether if the latter is he case, but in that world, it would certainly be conceivable that Johnson compile numbers exceeding Rice's.

Calvin Johnson is a once-in-a-generation talent who is wholly committed to his craft and wants greatness. It's unlikely, but doesn't he have the makings of a player--especially in an era where top players are productive for longer on average than ever--who could be very good well into his mid-to-late 30s? Hell, he could start playing "tight end" if he's only running a 4.6 by then.


You don't seem to understand. Even with the benefit of being in a pass happy league Calvin Johnson still won't even come close to Jerry Rice's numbers.

Calvin Johnson would need to average 1618 yards and 16 touchdowns for the next 10 seasons to surpass Jerry Rice's numbers.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Calvin Johnson Will Not Even Come Close to Jerry Rice. Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
I hear everywhere that Calvin Johnson could surpass Jerry Rice's statistics. To those that say this, you're not paying attention to the numbers.

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
Jerry Rice:

Receptions: 1549 (5.1)
Yards: 22895 (75.6)
Touchdowns: 197 (0.65)

Calvin Johnson:

Receptions: 366 (4.Cool
Yards: 5872 (77.3)
Touchdowns: 49 (0.65)

For Calvin Johnson to match Jerry Rice in yards and touchdowns he would need to average 1309.4 yards and 11.4 touchdowns for 13 more seasons.


There's now way that Calvin Johnson even comes close to those numbers.


I have never heard anyone say he could do this. If I had, I would tell them they were insane. Calvin Johnson might be more physically gifted and dominating than Rice was, but he is not as good of a WR. Rice did it so well for so long that I just dont see his records ever getting broken. Rice did it all- he had fantastic single-season numbers and he did it for so long that it gave him remarkable career stats as well.

Not many WRs (or any other positions for that matter) play till they are 40, and even less frequently do they put up even decent numbers at that age. Hines Ward, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Eric Moulds, Marvin Harrison, Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Tory Holt... all these great WRs saw their careers hit a decline once they got to the mid-30's. If Calvin Johnson is to match Rice, he will need to play for 13 more seasons, and keep up that pace the whole time? 19 seasons is near-unheard of for most kickers, let alone WRs. Rice was a workout warrior. Many guys who were many years younger would work out with him during the offseason and would talk about how they couldnt keep up with him. Its not impossible for Johnson to play that long, but judging by history I would say it is more likely that he will retire at 35 or 36 than 40.

If Stafford stays healthy, and the Lions never change their philosophy and remain a super-pass-happy offense, then Johnson could get the yards and TDs. But thats assuming Stafford doesnt get hurt, and Johnson, himself, doesnt get hurt. What if Detroit somehow signs or drafts a good RB, its likely that they will shift towards a more balanced offense and pas less. there are a hundred factors in this argument, which is why I'll leave my opinion at this: Johnson is a supreme talent and has loads more physical ability than Rice. What Rice had were prostene routes, amazing hands, the ability to get open, and a great understanding of the position. From a physical standpoint, Johnson beats Rice. But Rice has had amazing success over such a long period, while Johnson has been a bit up and down thus far. Just going by the longevity factor, I dont see Johnson passing Rice.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
onepostlegend wrote:
My point here will be brief. If Johnson benefits from a pass-happy league and a quarterback who's content with throwing until his arm falls off, why, exactly, can't he rattle off 6-7 consecutive seasons of 100+ catches, 1600+ yards and 15+ TDs? The disconnect in the analysis here is that people are failing to actually account for the added benefit of playing in this era, and are simply using it as a reason that his stats are "less impressive" than Rice's. They might be "less impressive" (I think they are), but with its diminished impressiveness comes its easier attainability. And who's to say the league isn't tending towards even more rules designed to increase offensive output? What if the 5 yard chuck rule is eliminated and DBs are basically forced to play off every snap? What if "incidental contact" is considered interference? Well, we might stop watching football altogether if the latter is he case, but in that world, it would certainly be conceivable that Johnson compile numbers exceeding Rice's.

Calvin Johnson is a once-in-a-generation talent who is wholly committed to his craft and wants greatness. It's unlikely, but doesn't he have the makings of a player--especially in an era where top players are productive for longer on average than ever--who could be very good well into his mid-to-late 30s? Hell, he could start playing "tight end" if he's only running a 4.6 by then.


You don't seem to understand. Even with the benefit of being in a pass happy league Calvin Johnson still won't even come close to Jerry Rice's numbers.

Calvin Johnson would need to average 1618 yards and 16 touchdowns for the next 10 seasons to surpass Jerry Rice's numbers.


if thats all you want to discuss is that CJ wont pass his numbers then there is no reason to have a debate. theres a chance he will but its real slim. Jerry played an extremely long time. CJ is a big boy and they usually are not able to play that long.

the only real discussion is if jerry rice will be considered the number one all time in the end.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:



the only real discussion is if jerry rice will be considered the number one all time in the end.


Thats no discussion either.
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AmerigoCorleone


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
the only real discussion is if jerry rice will be considered the number one all time in the end.


What exactly will Calvin Johnson do to overtake Jerry Rice as the greatest player of all-time?

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
Jerry Rice:

Receptions: 1549 (5.1)
Yards: 22895 (75.6)
Touchdowns: 197 (0.65)

Calvin Johnson:

Receptions: 366 (4.8)
Yards: 5872 (77.3)
Touchdowns: 49 (0.65)

For Calvin Johnson to match Jerry Rice in yards and touchdowns he would need to average 1309.4 yards and 11.4 touchdowns for 13 more seasons.


There's as much a chance of Calvin Johnson passing Jerry Rice's numbers as there is of Matt Ryan passing Peyton Manning's numbers.

AmerigoCorleone wrote:
These are Jerry Rice's statistics from 1986 to 1996.

Yards: 15450 (89.8)
Touchdowns: 160 (0.93)
Receptions: 1001 (5.8)

Calvin Johnson will never show that type of dominance.


And I don't see how Calvin Johnson will ever have a period of dominance as Jerry Rice did from 1986-1996.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
eagles101 wrote:



the only real discussion is if jerry rice will be considered the number one all time in the end.


Thats no discussion either.


+1

Its not like he just has career marks because he played so long, or that he just had a couple insane seasons, he had both. Career records, single season records, he has it all. If any of his records fall, it is far more likely that it will be a single season one, like yards. Then again, good luck topping 1800 yards. The closest anyones come in the last 10 years was Marvin Harrison and he was still 220 behind, and that was with one of the all-time greatest QBs.
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