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49ers receivers with highest drop rate in the league..again
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


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Ataal


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


Well, the definition of a drop that's being used is a ball that should have been caught with ordinary effort - so that shouldn't be factoring in the QB in the sense that you are. However, I won't go so far as to suggest that maybe there isn't *something* in Alex's throws that make it different. Still - the balls that were dropped are ones that should have been caught, bottom line - no gray area there.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.


That's a really interesting point. It does seem like we're up there in terms of shorter passes thrown. If anyone has access to advance stats it would be interesting to see where our dropped passes have been compared with other teams.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.


That's a really interesting point. It does seem like we're up there in terms of shorter passes thrown. If anyone has access to advance stats it would be interesting to see where our dropped passes have been compared with other teams.


I would look up advanced stats if I knew how, man I cant find anything online. i suck at computer stuff. Im great at finances and sales, but i wish I could. Embarassed

But I look at djax for philly, every since he got knocked out running the shallow crossing route I havent seen him consistently catch a short crossing route since. Look at fitzgerald dropping those passes last night. Victor cruz week 1 dropping shorter routes. all these players have dropped alot of passes recently, but they never drop anything deep. Often times a receiver is looking for the hit before they secure the ball, or looking to run first. Its also harder to adjust to a pass when it is only 5 yds from the LOS and coming off the QB's hands through a forrest of 6'4" dlineman.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point about the short yardage passes. I wonder if velocity has anything to do with it? We run a LOT of short yardage passes. If you draw a line from the quarterback to the receiver, there is more velocity the closer you get to the quarterback. Basic physics. I never really looked at how much heat Alex puts on those passes. I'll have to pay more attention to that next game.
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iwentundrafted wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
sbrown wrote:
I dont agree with this. and again we didnt lead the league last season. The statement said with ordinary effort, but it obviously doesnt take into account defenders hands coming across a receivers vision and other factors. also the other point is that none of the drops listed were passes beyond 15 yds down field unless they are counting the triple covered pass to moss last week as a drop too


Doesn't matter the yardage. Take Walker's double-drop from last week as an example. He makes that 1 yard catch and he can fall forward for an easy first down. Because he didn't make the catch, we are in 4th down mode and go for a FG (which was missed). Maybe he makes that first down, and we get more than 0 points next time, eh?


This is the most frustrating part about the offense imo. Throwing passes short of the sticks on 3rd down is ok sometimes if the receiver has some room to run but to me it seems we do it almost every third down attempt. That's where my criticism of Alex comes from. Now if its 3rd and 20 then ok im fine with throwing short of the sticks instead of throwing a foolish ball into triple coverage but on 3rd and 6 you throw a 3 yard out route with a guy on our receivers hip....then if caught he's tackled short and alex seems upset as he unsnaps his chinstrap and heads towards the sideline. Thats when I find myself saying "well what in the world did you expect to happen"?


Last week was one of the first weeks that I saw alex look down the field for his first read (look at his helmet, you can tell) this is why I have always had faith in alex, because he continues to grow as a player. he has mastered the underneath passing game, and has flashed an accurate deep ball (and he has also missed some throws, but when he misses its usually not by too much, hence the low INT numbers). I have confidence that he will make the deep passing game his priority, especially once he realizes that it is ok to audible to a pass if you see one of our playmakers lined up one on one and take a shot (it comes down to harbaugh settling in a little more as well). Last week we didnt need too many big plays in the passing game to win handily so it wasnt as big of an issue that we missed on those third downs. 34-0.

If you go and rewatch it there were a couple of times where alex threw the ball 10 yards past the sticks. the two plays where the throw was just a step ahead of manningham come to mind, IIRC both were on third down. Manningham had said that he hadn't quite gotten his timing down with alex, and it showed. but these misses were so close that it makes me believe that we will somehow find a way to connect, and that we are steadily improving.

I loved how we pumpfaked, if alex keeps adding things to his game we are going to be very good. very very good. and everything I have seen has led me to believe that he WILL make improvements.

drops can happen, no biggie. just keep working
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NINERFAN_4_LIFE wrote:
iwentundrafted wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
sbrown wrote:
I dont agree with this. and again we didnt lead the league last season. The statement said with ordinary effort, but it obviously doesnt take into account defenders hands coming across a receivers vision and other factors. also the other point is that none of the drops listed were passes beyond 15 yds down field unless they are counting the triple covered pass to moss last week as a drop too


Doesn't matter the yardage. Take Walker's double-drop from last week as an example. He makes that 1 yard catch and he can fall forward for an easy first down. Because he didn't make the catch, we are in 4th down mode and go for a FG (which was missed). Maybe he makes that first down, and we get more than 0 points next time, eh?


This is the most frustrating part about the offense imo. Throwing passes short of the sticks on 3rd down is ok sometimes if the receiver has some room to run but to me it seems we do it almost every third down attempt. That's where my criticism of Alex comes from. Now if its 3rd and 20 then ok im fine with throwing short of the sticks instead of throwing a foolish ball into triple coverage but on 3rd and 6 you throw a 3 yard out route with a guy on our receivers hip....then if caught he's tackled short and alex seems upset as he unsnaps his chinstrap and heads towards the sideline. Thats when I find myself saying "well what in the world did you expect to happen"?


Last week was one of the first weeks that I saw alex look down the field for his first read (look at his helmet, you can tell) this is why I have always had faith in alex, because he continues to grow as a player. he has mastered the underneath passing game, and has flashed an accurate deep ball (and he has also missed some throws, but when he misses its usually not by too much, hence the low INT numbers). I have confidence that he will make the deep passing game his priority, especially once he realizes that it is ok to audible to a pass if you see one of our playmakers lined up one on one and take a shot (it comes down to harbaugh settling in a little more as well). Last week we didnt need too many big plays in the passing game to win handily so it wasnt as big of an issue that we missed on those third downs. 34-0.

If you go and rewatch it there were a couple of times where alex threw the ball 10 yards past the sticks. the two plays where the throw was just a step ahead of manningham come to mind, IIRC both were on third down. Manningham had said that he hadn't quite gotten his timing down with alex, and it showed. but these misses were so close that it makes me believe that we will somehow find a way to connect, and that we are steadily improving.

I loved how we pumpfaked, if alex keeps adding things to his game we are going to be very good. very very good. and everything I have seen has led me to believe that he WILL make improvements.

drops can happen, no biggie. just keep working


I like the bolded underlined part. Alex has been soo bad at the deep ball over the last 4-5 seasons. But when he came into the league he was accurate with the deep ball, and last weeks game he was just a step off and real talk he wasnt really off, kyle wilson was pushing MM downfield on that play, and the one to crabtree. Leads me to believe he is FULLY recovered from his injury because even last season his slant passes had low velocity on them, now he is sticking the passes. which again could contribute to dropped passes because they may be used to alex from 1 or 2 seasons ago coupled with defenders in the vicinity.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.


sbrown - you keep rejecting what is a pretty much a fact. If you have a source that indicates we don't have the highest drop rate in the league feel free to post it. Otherwise it makes no sense to keep arguing you know better than independent statistics gatherers.

On top of the drops you rarely see a great catch from our guys. Example - the throw down the sidelines to Manningham where he reached out a hand and couldn't pull it in. In highlight clips for that weekend I saw a number of throws just like that where recievers laid themselves out and hauled in a similar pass.

It's simply a fact - our guys drops balls at a higher rate than other teams and rarely make the "fantastic catch". I don't know why you are reluctant to accept that.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.


sbrown - you keep rejecting what is a pretty much a fact. If you have a source that indicates we don't have the highest drop rate in the league feel free to post it. Otherwise it makes no sense to keep arguing you know better than independent statistics gatherers.

On top of the drops you rarely see a great catch from our guys. Example - the throw down the sidelines to Manningham where he reached out a hand and couldn't pull it in. In highlight clips for that weekend I saw a number of throws just like that where recievers laid themselves out and hauled in a similar pass.

It's simply a fact - our guys drops balls at a higher rate than other teams and rarely make the "fantastic catch". I don't know why you are reluctant to accept that.


Just curious, which plays are you talking about? I'll see if I can pull up video from that Manningham over throw, but from my memory it looked as if he was in a dead sprint with his right arm stretched out after battling with Wilson. It seemed pretty impossible for him to stretch out his other arm without stumbling. *Again, this is going off memory, if someone could find video that would be great.

Also, SBrown is simply explaining that all drops aren't the same and perhaps giving an answer to why we have so much drops. It seem like all our guys are having an issue catching, even the great Moss sometimes. Just coincidence? Possibly, but SBrown gave a pretty solid point as to why.

There's no doubt that our guys are dropping balls at a higher rate, but why? I'm sure that not every receiver simply decides to get brick hands when they sign with us.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
Y2, doesn't the qb come into play somehow. Team like GB, NO, and NE pass the ball WAY more than we do yet their WRs have less drops. Is it a coincidence that those team have the 3 best and most accurate qbs in the nfl? Rodgers, Brees, and Brady know how to throw a WR open and put it accurately in the perfect place for their WR to catch it. Our WRs are pretty good and certainly better than NE's WRs yet we have more drops. Not blaming it all on Alex but he doesn't throw no where near as accurate as those 3 qbs. Rarely do those WRs ever have to adjust to making a catch from those qbs.


While I agree that Alex Smith is not the QB that Rodgers, Brees, and Brady are, you have to also look at who they're throwing to. Their receivers are heads and shoulders above ours. Look at Larry Fitzgerald. He's had John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, etc... passing to him for years. Dude still comes down with the catches.

Not saying that Alex isn't at fault sometimes, but if you're going to apply that kind of logic for the QB, you have to do the same with the receivers as well.

P.S. To the bolded....not sure if serious. Which of our WR's do you think is "certainly" better than Wes Welker? Add in their TE duo, and NE definitely has a better core than we do.


I know the QB has alot to do with it, But not in this situation. however,I do believe our wrs are head and shoulders over NE's though.

But and a big but ATAAL is that how often do you see our wr's drop passes when they are 5 or more yards away from a defender down field? hardly ever. One of the points that I made earlier was that if you notice over 80% of our drops happen within 7 yds of the LOS where there are LB's and safeties in close proxiemity to the receiver. However you never see our guys drop passes where they are beyond the reach of the LB's. My point to this is Fitzgerald is considered to have the best hands in the NFL, however in last nights game Fitz dropped 2 key passes. both were passes that were within 7 yds of the LOS with a LB barrelling down on him. WE dont stretch defenses out enough and our wrs dont get passes in open space where the alligator arm syndrome comes in which is true for EVERY WR including larry fitzgerald greg jennings and andre johnson who have all dropped passes in this same general area of the field this season.


sbrown - you keep rejecting what is a pretty much a fact. If you have a source that indicates we don't have the highest drop rate in the league feel free to post it. Otherwise it makes no sense to keep arguing you know better than independent statistics gatherers.

On top of the drops you rarely see a great catch from our guys. Example - the throw down the sidelines to Manningham where he reached out a hand and couldn't pull it in. In highlight clips for that weekend I saw a number of throws just like that where recievers laid themselves out and hauled in a similar pass.

It's simply a fact - our guys drops balls at a higher rate than other teams and rarely make the "fantastic catch". I don't know why you are reluctant to accept that.


Just curious, which plays are you talking about? I'll see if I can pull up video from that Manningham over throw, but from my memory it looked as if he was in a dead sprint with his right arm stretched out after battling with Wilson. It seemed pretty impossible for him to stretch out his other arm without stumbling. *Again, this is going off memory, if someone could find video that would be great.

Also, SBrown is simply explaining that all drops aren't the same and perhaps giving an answer to why we have so much drops. It seem like all our guys are having an issue catching, even the great Moss sometimes. Just coincidence? Possibly, but SBrown gave a pretty solid point as to why.

There's no doubt that our guys are dropping balls at a higher rate, but why? I'm sure that not every receiver simply decides to get brick hands when they sign with us.



Thank you!!!

I never once said we didnt drop at a higher rate, only as to what could be contributing it and how we can fix it. But others seem to just like to point the finger at one thing and let that be the end of things..

again thank you Socal
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
[ It seem like all our guys are having an issue catching, even the great Moss sometimes. Just coincidence? Possibly, but SBrown gave a pretty solid point as to why.

There's no doubt that our guys are dropping balls at a higher rate, but why? I'm sure that not every receiver simply decides to get brick hands when they sign with us.


Moss has had a lifelong career high drop rate. It's not unusual for him to drop balls. Delanie has dropped simple passes. Gore has shown lead hands for the past season and a half. And as good as VD is, his hands are average at best, probably less than average. From what I've seen of Crabs he seems a little like Moss in that he does have good hands and makes nice catches, but he seems to lose his concentration sometimes and just drops easy balls. Really, the drops are not overthrows, or too hard, or anything else. They are what the website says they are - drops, balls that would ordinarily be caught.

And I'm not buying at all that our guys only drop short passes. I don't have any more stats that SBROWN has for my opinion but it seems to me that they drop short, medium and long passes in proportion to the number of each we throw. This year is too small of a sample, but I can remember plenty of medium and long balls that should have been caught last year (with "ordinary effort") but were dropped.

I don't get why people are reluctant to accept this, or looking for odd explanations. Look over the game day threads. Posters there pretty much agree on when balls that should be caught are dropped. They count them. Their counts agree with the web site. When they say things like "he was hit just as the ball arrived" or " QB threw that short one too hard" or any of those other things most posters don't complain about those passes as drops and the web site doesn't count them as drops. You want to know "why"? Isn't it as simple as a lot of our guys simply don't have very good hands?
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
[ It seem like all our guys are having an issue catching, even the great Moss sometimes. Just coincidence? Possibly, but SBrown gave a pretty solid point as to why.

There's no doubt that our guys are dropping balls at a higher rate, but why? I'm sure that not every receiver simply decides to get brick hands when they sign with us.


Moss has had a lifelong career high drop rate. It's not unusual for him to drop balls. Delanie has dropped simple passes. Gore has shown lead hands for the past season and a half. And as good as VD is, his hands are average at best, probably less than average. From what I've seen of Crabs he seems a little like Moss in that he does have good hands and makes nice catches, but he seems to lose his concentration sometimes and just drops easy balls. Really, the drops are not overthrows, or too hard, or anything else. They are what the website says they are - drops, balls that would ordinarily be caught.

And I'm not buying at all that our guys only drop short passes. I don't have any more stats that SBROWN has for my opinion but it seems to me that they drop short, medium and long passes in proportion to the number of each we throw. This year is too small of a sample, but I can remember plenty of medium and long balls that should have been caught last year (with "ordinary effort") but were dropped.

I don't get why people are reluctant to accept this, or looking for odd explanations. Look over the game day threads. Posters there pretty much agree on when balls that should be caught are dropped. They count them. Their counts agree with the web site. When they say things like "he was hit just as the ball arrived" or " QB threw that short one too hard" or any of those other things most posters don't complain about those passes as drops and the web site doesn't count them as drops. You want to know "why"? Isn't it as simple as a lot of our guys simply don't have very good hands?


It's not anymore odd than people saying that Alex doesn't "trust" his receivers or that Harbaugh is saving Moss for later in the season. I don't believe that it's odd to think that drops are more frequent during short because of all the variables. It's certainly plausible.

I never said they weren't, and I'm not debating that. However, I am curious as to why we continue to lead in drops. We add two pretty good WR's, but the issues still persist. Are we just really bad at drafting/signing players with good hands? Possibly, but there's nothing wrong with examining other variables.

There's guys that just have bad hands like Greg Little, no matter why type of pass, he has a high chance of dropping it. But you know what I notice with Crabs? It's generally the same pass that I see him drop, which is that short slant. He seems to catch everything else well, yet when we call on him for that short slant it gets tipped or dropped. I'm willing to bet that a large majority of his recorded drops come from this pass. If we stop running that play or keep it at a minimum, I'm confident that his drop rate will start to decrease.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same old same old. Those that never liked Alex will make a thousand excuses for why he is at fault. Those on the other side will put the blame on the others. Back and forth.. perspective is fascinating. Honesty is lacking.

Anyway, MY perspective after watching every damn play over and over and on slo-mo... Rio ran a sloppy route and stuck his paw out lazily for one down the right sideline. No excuse for a pro receiver to do that. Wasted motion on his route and still didn't get off the ground or stick both hands out for the ball. There was another deep left sideline to Rio.. and he was more interested in fighting the CB and trying to get a PI call than to just focus on the damn ball.

The deep left sideline to Crabtree? Yeah.. straight up.. Alex just missed him by about a foot and a half. Kaboom. Oldman holds Alex responsible for that one... minds are exploding.
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