Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

The question of Jake Long...
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mountainpd wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Reggie Bush must be hella good to get on your list twice Wink


Good spot that man. Shows what I know. Long day.


S'all good brah, the other list above has a couple "S. Smith's!" Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 12507
Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...
_________________

The Rebuild Has Begun...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5573
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Exactly .... How can you turn that down ? Keep fooling yourself into thinking he's still top 3 LT in the league. That's your problem right there. You are just now, if at all beginning to understand the huge difference between MBS and ZBS, but you have the most to say on the subject. That's [inappropriate/removed] backwards.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Exactly .... How can you turn that down ? Keep fooling yourself into thinking he's still top 3 LT in the league. That's your problem right there. You are just now, if at all beginning to understand the huge difference between MBS and ZBS, but you have the most to say on the subject. That's [inappropriate/removed] backwards.


You can't pass that up. That could potentially land you a Vontae Davis and Patrick Turner. Thats just too good to pass up. Rolling Eyes

Everyone hopes that it lands you Larry Fitzgerald and Jason Witten in the draft, but the reality is you have a Pro Bowl player in your hand, and you are trying to parlay (sp) that into two great players. Chances are slim to none that happens. But we saved salary and our qb can't stay off his back. Wink

In trades I look at it as whomever gets the best player(s) wins the trade. The Fins are going to have at least $40+ mill to spend in the offseason, they can afford their current priority Free Agents and still have room to add others.

Look, I know you fail to read my posts Doc, I am not dead set against moving Jake. What I am against is not having a viable plan in place. Seeing Jake in another uni is fine, but you better have a solid replacement in your hand before that day comes. And no Jason Smith is not qualified as a solid replacement.

Isn't it funny that some people are willing to toss Jake to the heap, but are pen in hand ready to sign Hartline to a deal? The credibility is gone when you don't have Long as a top ten player on this team. Bess, never had a 1000 yards. Dansby? Never lived up to the contract, but its okay to pay him the big money right? I really like Reggie, but paying a RB huge money is okay in a passing league?
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
phinmun


Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 2231
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Exactly .... How can you turn that down ? Keep fooling yourself into thinking he's still top 3 LT in the league. That's your problem right there. You are just now, if at all beginning to understand the huge difference between MBS and ZBS, but you have the most to say on the subject. That's [inappropriate/removed] backwards.


You can't pass that up. That could potentially land you a Vontae Davis and Patrick Turner. Thats just too good to pass up. Rolling Eyes

Everyone hopes that it lands you Larry Fitzgerald and Jason Witten in the draft, but the reality is you have a Pro Bowl player in your hand, and you are trying to parlay (sp) that into two great players. Chances are slim to none that happens. But we saved salary and our qb can't stay off his back. Wink

In trades I look at it as whomever gets the best player(s) wins the trade. The Fins are going to have at least $40+ mill to spend in the offseason, they can afford their current priority Free Agents and still have room to add others.

Look, I know you fail to read my posts Doc, I am not dead set against moving Jake. What I am against is not having a viable plan in place. Seeing Jake in another uni is fine, but you better have a solid replacement in your hand before that day comes. And no Jason Smith is not qualified as a solid replacement.

Isn't it funny that some people are willing to toss Jake to the heap, but are pen in hand ready to sign Hartline to a deal? The credibility is gone when you don't have Long as a top ten player on this team. Bess, never had a 1000 yards. Dansby? Never lived up to the contract, but its okay to pay him the big money right? I really like Reggie, but paying a RB huge money is okay in a passing league?



You're exactly right when it comes to recognizing the risk involved and having some guarantee regarding the replacement player(s).

One thing to keep in mind guys is that we have multiple 2nds and multiple 3rds in a draft where that'll be a great thing. It's ideal because we could potentially be looking at landing 2 Guards in one of the best interior O-line drafts in recent memory. There will be multiple stud players who could be selected in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that could really make this O-line elite.

Resigning Jake Long allows us to use 2 of those 4 picks above to bolster the line in a way that still allows us to use our 1st round pick on a WR/FS and 1 of our 2nd rounders on something that falls out of the 1st round...like a TE or DE.

That's pretty exciting to be honest!

That's not an option I'd be against at all. Smile

If we lose Long, we have to slide Martin over to LT and put the rookie OT at RT. The reason for that is because we'll be replacing Incognito and so we'll probably have a rookie LG. We couldn't have 2 rookies beside each other at LT and LG.

That's an okay option, too, supposing we lose Long but then we'd have to draft an OT high and still roll with John Jerry who's not been the model of dependability. The biggest problem is that this second strategy is quite messy and full of little assumptions and gaps.

Will the rookie OT perform better than Jake Long? There's a huge chance he won't. Will John Jerry be the long-term solution at RG? There's a huge chance he won't. Will we miss out on a big-time player at WR, FS, TE or DE by having to select an OT instead? There's a big chance. We've been forced into picks before (Davis) that wound up biting us.

The strength of the 1st strategy is that it gives us plenty of flexibility and allows us to go BPA in most spots by simple looking at who's on the board between 2 or 3 positions. There simply seems a beautiful, elegant simplicity about the 1st method, I think. That tells me it's the better of the 2 paths, especially consider that we also benefit with the leadership and role model aspects of Jake Long as a player.

The second might be the cheaper alternative but it's unlikely to make us better as a football team because it doesn't bring in as much talent as could be done with the picks we have and the strengths of this draft nor does it allow us as much flexibility while going through the draft in real time.

Everything just seems to point towards how ideal it would be if Jake Long played well in this scheme through the rest of the season. So long as big Jake doesn't prove to be a considerable liability, I think the smartest thing to do will be to sign him and possibly bit the bullet on 'over-paying' for 3 or 4 years if that's the case. We could always move on after that or trade him down the line.

The strength of this draft will be WRs and OGs. We need both as well as a chance to bite on a FS or TE if we have the chance. I like retaining Jake Long because of the way we'll be setup going into April and the fact that Jake Long's not a guy I mind over-paying a little bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5573
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Exactly .... How can you turn that down ? Keep fooling yourself into thinking he's still top 3 LT in the league. That's your problem right there. You are just now, if at all beginning to understand the huge difference between MBS and ZBS, but you have the most to say on the subject. That's [inappropriate/removed] backwards.


You can't pass that up. That could potentially land you a Vontae Davis and Patrick Turner. Thats just too good to pass up. Rolling Eyes

Everyone hopes that it lands you Larry Fitzgerald and Jason Witten in the draft, but the reality is you have a Pro Bowl player in your hand, and you are trying to parlay (sp) that into two great players. Chances are slim to none that happens. But we saved salary and our qb can't stay off his back. Wink

In trades I look at it as whomever gets the best player(s) wins the trade. The Fins are going to have at least $40+ mill to spend in the offseason, they can afford their current priority Free Agents and still have room to add others.

Look, I know you fail to read my posts Doc, I am not dead set against moving Jake. What I am against is not having a viable plan in place. Seeing Jake in another uni is fine, but you better have a solid replacement in your hand before that day comes. And no Jason Smith is not qualified as a solid replacement.

Isn't it funny that some people are willing to toss Jake to the heap, but are pen in hand ready to sign Hartline to a deal? The credibility is gone when you don't have Long as a top ten player on this team. Bess, never had a 1000 yards. Dansby? Never lived up to the contract, but its okay to pay him the big money right? I really like Reggie, but paying a RB huge money is okay in a passing league?


Who's Jason Smith ?

My scenario moves Jonathan Martin to LT ... He has experience there within a version of this scheme. He moved to RT seamlessly, while only needing an offseason/training camp to do it. He's young and can move right back to LT should the opportunity present itself. This takes away the need to go T in the 1st.

Here's what you are doing to keep your stance on life support. You want to push the theory that No Jake Long = Tannehill with no time in the pocket ... You push that as if it is inevitable. Finding a ZBS Tackle is far far far from impossible.

You will not acknowledge the fact that Jake Long's status a great LT was due to his ability to overpower defenders that where identified pre-snap. He did it against the run better than any other. He did it at a high level in pass pro. The MBS suits his skill set. You will not acknowledge that the ZBS automatically makes him average at his position and overpaid ... you insist on describing him like Henning and Sporano are still here.

What if he decides to leave ? Are you going to give up hope that the Dolphins can have success at left tackle ? Is he irreplaceable even though this system is not optimum for his strengths ? It's been showing for over a season now. But you fell in love hard. And Jakes gonna break up with you.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Clutch wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Exactly .... How can you turn that down ? Keep fooling yourself into thinking he's still top 3 LT in the league. That's your problem right there. You are just now, if at all beginning to understand the huge difference between MBS and ZBS, but you have the most to say on the subject. That's [inappropriate/removed] backwards.


You can't pass that up. That could potentially land you a Vontae Davis and Patrick Turner. Thats just too good to pass up. Rolling Eyes

Everyone hopes that it lands you Larry Fitzgerald and Jason Witten in the draft, but the reality is you have a Pro Bowl player in your hand, and you are trying to parlay (sp) that into two great players. Chances are slim to none that happens. But we saved salary and our qb can't stay off his back. Wink

In trades I look at it as whomever gets the best player(s) wins the trade. The Fins are going to have at least $40+ mill to spend in the offseason, they can afford their current priority Free Agents and still have room to add others.

Look, I know you fail to read my posts Doc, I am not dead set against moving Jake. What I am against is not having a viable plan in place. Seeing Jake in another uni is fine, but you better have a solid replacement in your hand before that day comes. And no Jason Smith is not qualified as a solid replacement.

Isn't it funny that some people are willing to toss Jake to the heap, but are pen in hand ready to sign Hartline to a deal? The credibility is gone when you don't have Long as a top ten player on this team. Bess, never had a 1000 yards. Dansby? Never lived up to the contract, but its okay to pay him the big money right? I really like Reggie, but paying a RB huge money is okay in a passing league?


Who's Jason Smith ?

My scenario moves Jonathan Martin to LT ... He has experience there within a version of this scheme. He moved to RT seamlessly, while only needing an offseason/training camp to do it. He's young and can move right back to LT should the opportunity present itself. This takes away the need to go T in the 1st.

Here's what you are doing to keep your stance on life support. You want to push the theory that No Jake Long = Tannehill with no time in the pocket ... You push that as if it is inevitable. Finding a ZBS Tackle is far far far from impossible.

You will not acknowledge the fact that Jake Long's status a great LT was due to his ability to overpower defenders that where identified pre-snap. He did it against the run better than any other. He did it at a high level in pass pro. The MBS suits his skill set. You will not acknowledge that the ZBS automatically makes him average at his position and overpaid ... you insist on describing him like Henning and Sporano are still here.

What if he decides to leave ? Are you going to give up hope that the Dolphins can have success at left tackle ? Is he irreplaceable even though this system is not optimum for his strengths ? It's been showing for over a season now. But you fell in love hard. And Jakes gonna break up with you.


Haha. I love the humor.

I get what you are saying, again, please listen. I am okay with Jake leaving, and yes Martin maybe able to slide over. But you are taking from Peter to pay Paul. You then need a RT, and maybe thats an easier proposition but it is seeming a little forced at this point. So please, stop saying I am dead set against it. I am not. Just has to be the right pieces in place to do something like this.

Again, if you don't include Jake in your top ten players on this team, it shows it is your stance (or others) who just want him gone. Thats fine, but I think anyone who would rank the fins players would call it a little crazy that he is that low on the Fins (below Bess??)

So if Jake leaves, who out there are you hoping to spend the money on? Its one thing to let him walk, but is there a particular FA or group of players you would rather have than Long? Just wondering as some seem pretty anxious to cut ties with 77.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 46632
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Really? I wouldn't offer anything unless he plans to re-sign and if he does, I wouldn't offer more than a 2nd because I'm assuming the money he'll want is excessive.
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xXxHOUSEDxXx


Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Posts: 4933
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this in NFL General just to see what others think Long's trade value is: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=501961
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 13152
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Really? I wouldn't offer anything unless he plans to re-sign and if he does, I wouldn't offer more than a 2nd because I'm assuming the money he'll want is excessive.


Sounds about right and I wouldn't trade him for less than a 2nd AND 3rd if I am Miami, so it's not going to happen.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fender


Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 904
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Really? I wouldn't offer anything unless he plans to re-sign and if he does, I wouldn't offer more than a 2nd because I'm assuming the money he'll want is excessive.


Sounds about right and I wouldn't trade him for less than a 2nd AND 3rd if I am Miami, so it's not going to happen.


Are you saying you 'would' take a 2nd and 3rd for him?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 13152
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fender wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. .


At least a 1st & 3rd if he re-signs...


Really? I wouldn't offer anything unless he plans to re-sign and if he does, I wouldn't offer more than a 2nd because I'm assuming the money he'll want is excessive.


Sounds about right and I wouldn't trade him for less than a 2nd AND 3rd if I am Miami, so it's not going to happen.


Are you saying you 'would' take a 2nd and 3rd for him?


From a team that wasn't a contender (In other words from a team that should be giving us at least a mid second and 3rd, I would consider it. He is just not himself, and honestly, unless there are injuries that won't heal completely in the offseason, I don't think he is worth more than 8-10 mil a season. I'm not sure that will work for him, so with each passing game and each game that he doesn't play at a pro bowl level it becomes less and less likely that he is a phin next year.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6781
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Love of God somebody convince the Phins to trade Jake Long before other teams figure out
he is not worth trading for a low 2nd rnd pk ....!!!!


sug
_________________
# 52
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5573
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
For the Love of God somebody convince the Phins to trade Jake Long before other teams figure out
he is not worth trading for a low 2nd rnd pk ....!!!!


sug


Half of these daffodils that think he's a top 5 LT couldn't name the other 4.
They sit and watch game after game and can't see a difference in his play.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 9060
Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have already said I would trade Jake Long but it will be a mutiny if they did it during the season, especially without a quality backup. Injuries have certainly made Jake less athletic. I know two tackles that are better than Jake Long right now:

Michael Roos and Joe Thomas.

And that is just off the top of my head.
_________________
"Yesterday Is History, Tomorrow Is A Mystery, And Today Is A Gift. That Is Why It Is Called The Present.""
Master Oogway from Kung Fu Panda
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 8 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group