Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

The question of Jake Long...
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 6955
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.
_________________


Phinisher on the Avatar
MDolphins2399 on the sig


Go Canes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ProudDolphan47


Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5622
Location: Lancaster, PA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?
_________________
-Proud 2011 Inductee to FF's Miami Dolphins RoH

Warpticon wrote:
I think Mike Wallace made a mistake because *throws turd at wall*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patdt13


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 8846
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


It's the hair, obviously.


_________________

#TeamMeowgatron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5582
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


Actually his character is a huge bonus. His leadership and presence are ideal for a unit within a unit like the offensive line. But my dad's a good leader too. Want him at left tackle ? The other thing he has in common with Jake Long is that Long's jersey number is my dad's age.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


How do you know he's not? I don't hear of anyone else in that role right now. Sure RT will be the offensive leader, but not yet.

Look this team should be 4-1. And you guys want to rock the boat. For what? Some maybe guy out there that might be better than Jake? Those guys aren't floating around. I see with my eyes. This guy has not hurt us one bit. We run the ball well, our qb is getting better every week. Why not keep continuity? Over money. Nobody says Jake is asking for 14 mill.
So that is a moot point. Stats lie and they don't lie. RT has done a fantastic job as a rookie, yet he is rated as one of the bottom 5 qbs. Individually he looks to be struggling. But the team is having some success with him at the helm.

Forgot Doc, if we dont' agree with you, you resort to trying to belittle points. ZBS is pretty easy to understand in a nutshell. Guy is in your area, block him. Are their some nuances to that, sure, just like other schemes. Don't try to tell me what I do and don't get. I am sure you thought Jake gave up the sack, it was actually Incognito not taking the switch. Its happened a couple times this season. But you see what you want.

You have failed to tell me how a 5 time pro bowl player shouldn't command any kind of asking point he wants. Any other position on any other team would ask for the blank cheque and probably get it. You want cheap labor and managable contracts, go sign more draft picks and cross your fingers they turn into All Pros.

But this self loathing about trying to improve by subtraction is beyond ridiculous. You continue to throw out that we can replace him with an 'inferior player' with less money. Who? Name some names? Give us an idea. Cause I have watched a lot of football this season and there are probably 20 guys I wouldn't want. Those other 10 guys, probably aren't leaving their current teams. That is where you may want to start. Elite players don't leave teams with cap space. Teams make room to keep those players. The ONLY reason teams let these playes go, is if they know something we don't. Injury history, Character concerns etc.

Jakes going to get paid, so why not us. Cap room isn't the issue. And until I see a capable option or alternative solution, this is some of the stupidest talk on this forum. Some are acting like he is a liability like Jason Smith. In a way, I hope he leaves. So you can see what life is like without an elite LT.

Before you post a response. Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. Then come post it. Until then this is just noise.

Most of the best offensive attacks have elite LT. Go through the list. It has been mentioned to you already. How can you dispute that?

Jake Long at 80 percent is better than 28 other tackles in this league. IF you can guarantee the same or better production for half the cost, then fine. But you can't. LT's get paid.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 6955
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


Because I don't see another player on this team that players truly follow into battle, besides Matt Moore I guess.
_________________


Phinisher on the Avatar
MDolphins2399 on the sig


Go Canes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5582
Location: New York
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


How do you know he's not? I don't hear of anyone else in that role right now. Sure RT will be the offensive leader, but not yet.

Look this team should be 4-1. And you guys want to rock the boat. For what? Some maybe guy out there that might be better than Jake? Those guys aren't floating around. I see with my eyes. This guy has not hurt us one bit. We run the ball well, our qb is getting better every week. Why not keep continuity? Over money. Nobody says Jake is asking for 14 mill.
So that is a moot point. Stats lie and they don't lie. RT has done a fantastic job as a rookie, yet he is rated as one of the bottom 5 qbs. THE RANKINGS I SAW AND OTHER ANALYSIS SAY THE CONTRARY. THE BUZZ AROUND THE LEAGUE IS ABOUT RECORD BREAKING SUCCESS. BUT TO PROVE YOUR POINT, HE LOOKS TO BE STRUGGLING. Individually he looks to be struggling. But the team is having some success with him at the helm.

Forgot Doc, if we dont' agree with you, you resort to trying to belittle points. ZBS is pretty easy to understand in a nutshell. Guy is in your area, block him. Are their some nuances to that, sure, just like other schemes. Don't try to tell me what I do and don't get. I am sure you thought Jake gave up the sack, I NEVER SPOKE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ANY SACK IN REGARDS TO JAKE LONG. THIS STATEMENT IS ALSO INACCURATE.
it was actually Incognito not taking the switch. Its happened a couple times this season. But you see what you want.

You have failed to tell me how a 5 time pro bowl player shouldn't command any kind of asking point he wants. Any other position on any other team would ask for the blank cheque and probably get it. You want cheap labor and managable contracts, go sign more draft picks and cross your fingers they turn into All Pros. YOU DON'T NEED ALL PROS ON YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE (see new york giants / green bay packers) TO PLAY WINNING FOOTBALL IN THE NFL.
But this self loathing about trying to improve by subtraction is beyond ridiculous. You continue to throw out that we can replace him with an 'inferior player' with less money. Who? Name some names? Give us an idea. Cause I have watched a lot of football this season and there are probably 20 guys I wouldn't want. Those other 10 guys, probably aren't leaving their current teams. That is where you may want to start. Elite players don't leave teams with cap space. Teams make room to keep those players. The ONLY reason teams let these playes go, is if they know something we don't. Injury history, Character concerns etc.

Jakes going to get paid, so why not us. Cap room isn't the issue. And until I see a capable option or alternative solution, this is some of the stupidest talk on this forum. Some are acting like he is a liability like Jason Smith. In a way, I hope he leaves. So you can see what life is like without an elite LT.

Before you post a response. Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. Then come post it. Until then this is just noise.

Most of the best offensive attacks have elite LT. Go through the list. It has been mentioned to you already. How can you dispute that?

Jake Long at 80 percent is better than 28 other tackles in this league. IF you can guarantee the same or better production for half the cost, then fine. But you can't. LT's get paid.


This is an Active Career Ranking

Joe Thomas - Cleveland Browns #1 ranked LT on the 24th Ranked offense
Duane Brown - Houston Texans #2 ranked LT on the 15th Ranked offense
Michael Roos - Tennessee Titans #3 ranked LT on the 26th Ranked offense
Jake Long - Miami Dolphins #4 ranked LT on the 13th Ranked offense
Joe Staley - San Fransisco 49ers #5 ranked LT 6th Ranked offense
D'Brickeshaw Ferguson - Them - #6 ranked LT on the 28th Ranked offense
Jordan Gross - Carolina Panthers - 7th ranked LT on the 22nd Ranked off.
Andrew Witworth - Cincinnati Bengals #8 ranked LT / 14th ranked offense
Branden Albert - Kansas City Chiefs #9 ranked LT / 4th Ranked offense
Tyron Smith - Dallas Cowboys #10 ranked LT / 16th ranked offense

The sporting news just cleared up that BS Clutch said about most of the best offenses having elite LTs. Only two of the top 10 LTs play on top 10 offenses.

Notice how Clutch NEVER talks honestly about the system of the offenses.
But I will:

Quote:
Just as important as the running back is the type of linemen this scheme employs. Typically, smaller, quicker linemen are preferred for this style of blocking. Lateral quickness is extremely important, as is the ability to engage, get off blocks, and get onto second level defenders. For this reason, you typically donít see the Nate Newtons and Orlando Paces in this type of offense.


Now keep in mind, I do think that the "trade Jake Long" ship has sailed. So don't listen to Clutch's BS on that topic either. My current thoughts on the issue are that we should NOT resign him.

It's like when Boat owners who used to live in Florida move to a high rise condo in NYC. Nothing wrong with the boat. Great Boat, always will be. But now you wanna look into metro card for the train. That's what fits.

He is a power tackle that thrives in the MBS and we no longer use it. You sound like an old woman when you imply that Tannehill will be in some kind of danger if Jake Long is not the Dolphin LT. Like if you don't have a man blocking mauler at LT, the offense is in trouble. Well Jake Long is very expensive. Jake Long has a skill set that no longer matches the job requirements of the position. Him incognito and Jerry are no longer the future of this franchise.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ProudDolphan47


Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5622
Location: Lancaster, PA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


Because I don't see another player on this team that players truly follow into battle, besides Matt Moore I guess.


Are you in the locker room? Are you there every day at practice? Do you stand on the sideline and watch the interactions between all the players?

Or are you just feeding off a 30 second clip off of Hard Knocks and one play in the Raiders game?

There is ZERO quantitative value to what you're saying. That is totally objective.

Clutch, no one is saying that we are going to go out and find a better Jake Long. But stop acting like we're saying we're going to let him go and not going to field a LT next year.

"RIP Jake Long, we'll mourn your loss by starting 10 and not putting a LT out there...."

No one is saying that. But the fact of the matter is Long is rated as the 62nd tackle in run blocking this year, 13th in pass blocking and 33rd overall. Sorry, but that's not 12-14 million dollar money right there.

And as for 'who says he's asking for that?' ... come on. Seriously. It's like the clip from Mr. Deeds?

Deeds: "So if you were playing worse, would it be fair of us to give you less money?"

QB: "S%# no! I mean...no"

You really think Jake Long is going to raise his hand and say 'yeah, I haven't played that good, why don't you give me less money, that's fair.'

And Clutch if you're speaking to me about Jake vs. Incognito giving up the sack, I clearly state at the top of page 4:

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Pass protection is much more of a high science than run blocking, so its hard to quantify the responsibilities in a ZBS vs. a MBS. There is gap protection, slide protection, man protection. There are line calls for stunts, blitz pickups, overloads, swaps and passing off rushers. That's how Michael Johnson got his sack on Sunday...the not keen eye says Michael Johnson lined up across from Long, got upfield and then cut underneath. But it was what looked to be either a slide or man pass pro set, but Geno Atkins loops outside and Incognito followed. (That's what leads me to guess it was a 'mo' or man blocking call). But when Atkins vacated the B gap and Incognito followed, Long broke off to pick up the stunt, while Incognito was so far off his set and overtop of himself that he had no anchor and no change of direction. The end result is Johnson, Long's original man but NOT who he was ultimately responsible for, eats up the sack.

There is so much depth and complexity to pass protection, no one can sit here and say they know the fine details unless they're on the Dolphins staff.


I feel like you proved our point when you said, verbatim: "YOU DON'T NEED ALL PROS ON YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE (see new york giants / green bay packers) TO PLAY WINNING FOOTBALL IN THE NFL."

Read that again and tell me how exactly you didn't just prove our point?
_________________
-Proud 2011 Inductee to FF's Miami Dolphins RoH

Warpticon wrote:
I think Mike Wallace made a mistake because *throws turd at wall*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, you guys have it all figured out. There is definently only one way to win and that is to do it your way.

You wanna talk BS, Doc: Lets give Ted Ginn a chance. Lets give John Beck a long term deal. Lets give Cam Cameron the keys to the car. (and by the way, I bought those magic beans you were selling)

Newest point: Lets get rid of the All Pro LT because he costs money.

Well on your way to another staple of great decision making.

PD - Come warn me for attacking another poster.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


Because I don't see another player on this team that players truly follow into battle, besides Matt Moore I guess.


Are you in the locker room? Are you there every day at practice? Do you stand on the sideline and watch the interactions between all the players?

Or are you just feeding off a 30 second clip off of Hard Knocks and one play in the Raiders game?

There is ZERO quantitative value to what you're saying. That is totally objective.

Clutch, no one is saying that we are going to go out and find a better Jake Long. But stop acting like we're saying we're going to let him go and not going to field a LT next year.

"RIP Jake Long, we'll mourn your loss by starting 10 and not putting a LT out there...."

No one is saying that. But the fact of the matter is Long is rated as the 62nd tackle in run blocking this year, 13th in pass blocking and 33rd overall. Sorry, but that's not 12-14 million dollar money right there.

And as for 'who says he's asking for that?' ... come on. Seriously. It's like the clip from Mr. Deeds?

Deeds: "So if you were playing worse, would it be fair of us to give you less money?"

QB: "S%# no! I mean...no"

You really think Jake Long is going to raise his hand and say 'yeah, I haven't played that good, why don't you give me less money, that's fair.'

And Clutch if you're speaking to me about Jake vs. Incognito giving up the sack, I clearly state at the top of page 4:

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Pass protection is much more of a high science than run blocking, so its hard to quantify the responsibilities in a ZBS vs. a MBS. There is gap protection, slide protection, man protection. There are line calls for stunts, blitz pickups, overloads, swaps and passing off rushers. That's how Michael Johnson got his sack on Sunday...the not keen eye says Michael Johnson lined up across from Long, got upfield and then cut underneath. But it was what looked to be either a slide or man pass pro set, but Geno Atkins loops outside and Incognito followed. (That's what leads me to guess it was a 'mo' or man blocking call). But when Atkins vacated the B gap and Incognito followed, Long broke off to pick up the stunt, while Incognito was so far off his set and overtop of himself that he had no anchor and no change of direction. The end result is Johnson, Long's original man but NOT who he was ultimately responsible for, eats up the sack.

There is so much depth and complexity to pass protection, no one can sit here and say they know the fine details unless they're on the Dolphins staff.


I feel like you proved our point when you said, verbatim: "YOU DON'T NEED ALL PROS ON YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE (see new york giants / green bay packers) TO PLAY WINNING FOOTBALL IN THE NFL."

Read that again and tell me how exactly you didn't just prove our point?


Again, why pay guards (or invest high draft picks) when they are the two spots on the OLine you can get away with less money/lower draft picks.

Most important: LT, C, RT, G (pick one or the other don't care)

PD - never said we weren't going to get another T, just said why? You have one of the best. He'll get paid whether he's here or somewhere else. so you can take the hard stance to 'prove your point', but Jake ain't gonna stay because you are stomping your feet like a child screaming "but I don't wanna pay Jake 12 million dollars". Is this where we have have to tell you to go to your room.

Now, show me where Jake has asked for 12-14? From Jake. Show me.

Its all about the benjamins boys. The faster you figure that out the better off you are. You wanna keep letting good talent go for nothing, then don't come on here and [inappropriate/removed] about how we are losing. Good teams don't let that go unless there are other issues, as I have already stated. This is a talent acquisition business.

If they let Jake go and can get another quality tackle. Great. But at this time, on this roster, we don't have that replacment. And that ain't laying around right now. Anyone see Jared Gaither, who is a good tackle, give up the fumble to lose the game the other night. We don't see that around here very often. Spoiled children.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Clutch wrote:
ProudDolphan47 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Jake Long is only going to get better in this system, he is a true leader that players rally behind. Pay the man, pay Smith, MAYBE pay Starks (Odrick could be a starter there, similar player, younger etc). Probably end up getting Bush back for reasonable money. Who needs a ton of cap space, that would leave us enough to sign either 1 top flight player and some fillers, or 2 or 3 solid pieces (Richard Marshall level).

Jake is going to get $12,000,000, Smith 7-8,000,000 , and Starks 6-7,000,000. That's 25-27, and then Bush for maybe 5,000,000. Hartline probably 5,000,000. Leaves 15,000,000. We likely will part with Incognito and a couple other pricey under performers. We'll be at somewhere between 15-20 million. That's enough to run an offseason.


Dude...why are you so insistent that Jake Long is the greatest leader in the history of the NFL?


How do you know he's not? I don't hear of anyone else in that role right now. Sure RT will be the offensive leader, but not yet.

Look this team should be 4-1. And you guys want to rock the boat. For what? Some maybe guy out there that might be better than Jake? Those guys aren't floating around. I see with my eyes. This guy has not hurt us one bit. We run the ball well, our qb is getting better every week. Why not keep continuity? Over money. Nobody says Jake is asking for 14 mill.
So that is a moot point. Stats lie and they don't lie. RT has done a fantastic job as a rookie, yet he is rated as one of the bottom 5 qbs. THE RANKINGS I SAW AND OTHER ANALYSIS SAY THE CONTRARY. THE BUZZ AROUND THE LEAGUE IS ABOUT RECORD BREAKING SUCCESS. BUT TO PROVE YOUR POINT, HE LOOKS TO BE STRUGGLING. Individually he looks to be struggling. But the team is having some success with him at the helm.

Forgot Doc, if we dont' agree with you, you resort to trying to belittle points. ZBS is pretty easy to understand in a nutshell. Guy is in your area, block him. Are their some nuances to that, sure, just like other schemes. Don't try to tell me what I do and don't get. I am sure you thought Jake gave up the sack, I NEVER SPOKE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ANY SACK IN REGARDS TO JAKE LONG. THIS STATEMENT IS ALSO INACCURATE.
it was actually Incognito not taking the switch. Its happened a couple times this season. But you see what you want.

You have failed to tell me how a 5 time pro bowl player shouldn't command any kind of asking point he wants. Any other position on any other team would ask for the blank cheque and probably get it. You want cheap labor and managable contracts, go sign more draft picks and cross your fingers they turn into All Pros. YOU DON'T NEED ALL PROS ON YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE (see new york giants / green bay packers) TO PLAY WINNING FOOTBALL IN THE NFL.
But this self loathing about trying to improve by subtraction is beyond ridiculous. You continue to throw out that we can replace him with an 'inferior player' with less money. Who? Name some names? Give us an idea. Cause I have watched a lot of football this season and there are probably 20 guys I wouldn't want. Those other 10 guys, probably aren't leaving their current teams. That is where you may want to start. Elite players don't leave teams with cap space. Teams make room to keep those players. The ONLY reason teams let these playes go, is if they know something we don't. Injury history, Character concerns etc.

Jakes going to get paid, so why not us. Cap room isn't the issue. And until I see a capable option or alternative solution, this is some of the stupidest talk on this forum. Some are acting like he is a liability like Jason Smith. In a way, I hope he leaves. So you can see what life is like without an elite LT.

Before you post a response. Try going to the Rams/Cards/Bears/Jets forums and ask them about their current situation and what they would give to have Jake. Then come post it. Until then this is just noise.

Most of the best offensive attacks have elite LT. Go through the list. It has been mentioned to you already. How can you dispute that?

Jake Long at 80 percent is better than 28 other tackles in this league. IF you can guarantee the same or better production for half the cost, then fine. But you can't. LT's get paid.


This is an Active Career Ranking

Joe Thomas - Cleveland Browns #1 ranked LT on the 24th Ranked offense
Duane Brown - Houston Texans #2 ranked LT on the 15th Ranked offense
Michael Roos - Tennessee Titans #3 ranked LT on the 26th Ranked offense
Jake Long - Miami Dolphins #4 ranked LT on the 13th Ranked offense
Joe Staley - San Fransisco 49ers #5 ranked LT 6th Ranked offense
D'Brickeshaw Ferguson - Them - #6 ranked LT on the 28th Ranked offense
Jordan Gross - Carolina Panthers - 7th ranked LT on the 22nd Ranked off.
Andrew Witworth - Cincinnati Bengals #8 ranked LT / 14th ranked offense
Branden Albert - Kansas City Chiefs #9 ranked LT / 4th Ranked offense
Tyron Smith - Dallas Cowboys #10 ranked LT / 16th ranked offense

The sporting news just cleared up that BS Clutch said about most of the best offenses having elite LTs. Only two of the top 10 LTs play on top 10 offenses.

Notice how Clutch NEVER talks honestly about the system of the offenses.
But I will:

Quote:
Just as important as the running back is the type of linemen this scheme employs. Typically, smaller, quicker linemen are preferred for this style of blocking. Lateral quickness is extremely important, as is the ability to engage, get off blocks, and get onto second level defenders. For this reason, you typically donít see the Nate Newtons and Orlando Paces in this type of offense.


Now keep in mind, I do think that the "trade Jake Long" ship has sailed. So don't listen to Clutch's BS on that topic either. My current thoughts on the issue are that we should NOT resign him.

It's like when Boat owners who used to live in Florida move to a high rise condo in NYC. Nothing wrong with the boat. Great Boat, always will be. But now you wanna look into metro card for the train. That's what fits.

He is a power tackle that thrives in the MBS and we no longer use it. You sound like an old woman when you imply that Tannehill will be in some kind of danger if Jake Long is not the Dolphin LT. Like if you don't have a man blocking mauler at LT, the offense is in trouble. Well Jake Long is very expensive. Jake Long has a skill set that no longer matches the job requirements of the position. Him incognito and Jerry are no longer the future of this franchise.


Aren't you the guy who pounded the drum of the following characters: Teddy G, Cam Cameron and John Beck.

Those are some 'BS' points you have made in the past. Two of them aren't making any contributions and Cam C is debatable. So lets take you word as gospel.

Again, if you don't agree with Doc, it just gets to namecalling. Point proven again. Only one way to do this thing, docs way. Rolling Eyes

If you wanna prove your point, and be taken seriously, leave the rest of the 'bs' out of it. It's not needed and just brings everything else you say down.

Maybe we shouldn't keep Jake, but we need a suitable replacement before that decision is made.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ProudDolphan47


Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5622
Location: Lancaster, PA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly this debate is getting pretty passionate, myself included. We need to let cool heads prevail here. This is about as spirited and involved of a debate as I've seen on the Dolphins forum since draft time. And this is the kind of discussion I'd love to see here. Minus the emotional anger.

This is a wonderful debate, I may have pushed some boundaries myself and ask that we all not take anything personally. Myself included. This is a good discussion and I want it to continue in a reasonable manner because this kind of talk, passion and difference in philosophy is good for the forum. Carry on.
_________________
-Proud 2011 Inductee to FF's Miami Dolphins RoH

Warpticon wrote:
I think Mike Wallace made a mistake because *throws turd at wall*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5582
Location: New York
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch wrote:
Okay, you guys have it all figured out. There is definently only one way to win and that is to do it your way.

You wanna talk BS, Doc: Lets give Ted Ginn a chance. Lets give John Beck a long term deal. Lets give Cam Cameron the keys to the car. (and by the way, I bought those magic beans you were selling)

Newest point: Lets get rid of the All Pro LT because he costs money.

Well on your way to another staple of great decision making.

PD - Come warn me for attacking another poster.


When the logic was brought to me about Ted Ginn, I accepted it. I realized that the trade was a good trade for the long term good of the team.
I don't know where you are getting the long term deal for John Beck BS. More fact enhancement I guess. However, John Beck had 3 picks here. He may not be the QB that Tannehill is but he threw half the amount of pics on a zillion times worse team.

And for the last time this is not about trading him. This is about resigning him or not.

The only thing i've done is corrected you when you assigned views to me that where not my own and provided facts to support my real views. There's nothing wrong with that.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 2240
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Clutch wrote:
Okay, you guys have it all figured out. There is definently only one way to win and that is to do it your way.

You wanna talk BS, Doc: Lets give Ted Ginn a chance. Lets give John Beck a long term deal. Lets give Cam Cameron the keys to the car. (and by the way, I bought those magic beans you were selling)

Newest point: Lets get rid of the All Pro LT because he costs money.

Well on your way to another staple of great decision making.

PD - Come warn me for attacking another poster.


When the logic was brought to me about Ted Ginn, I accepted it. I realized that the trade was a good trade for the long term good of the team.
I don't know where you are getting the long term deal for John Beck BS. More fact enhancement I guess. However, John Beck had 3 picks here. He may not be the QB that Tannehill is but he threw half the amount of pics on a zillion times worse team.

And for the last time this is not about trading him. This is about resigning him or not.

The only thing i've done is corrected you when you assigned views to me that where not my own and provided facts to support my real views. There's nothing wrong with that.


Go back and read your posts more clearly......and many others that are in the same context. It always has you trying to put down a poster. It is what it is. I have read it as an outsider and have read it as you commenting on my post.

Don't care anymore, trade, cut, release, walk away, Jake. Sign Massie or some other potential hack and lets hope Tanney can make him better like he has with others on the offence. Players get paid. Sometimes you gotta open up the cheque book.

Later fellas.
_________________
- "Who, I love Rich Camarillo." Quote from the Fish's play by play crew.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutch, if you're going to be mad, can you try to be mad about things people are actually saying? It doesn't help anything to mischaracterize other people's positions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 5 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group