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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The nation as a whole still has no clue about our QB situation...No wonder people don't realize how much QB is holding us back, nobody really watches us apparently.ESPN poll, "who should start, Quinn or Cassel". Cassel is getting 52 % of the votes. Kansas voted for Quinn the most, Missouri surprisingly pretty far behind.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
RVM I agree, as a whole our d looked good today and this was by far the best game for Elam in my opinion. I'm just thinking of a down the road young guy would be nice type of situation. And don't say Lewis, because I've given up on him being healthy enough to count on.


Why? He played all of last year...he only missed like 4 games his rookie year.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They guy is consistently banged up, dinged up and now we see him missing time. And while I applaud his toughness, he was injured last season he just played through it because we had no other options. I'm not saying cut him, I'm just saying I'm not as comfortable as some in counting on him.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
They guy is consistently banged up, dinged up and now we see him missing time. And while I applaud his toughness, he was injured last season he just played through it because we had no other options. I'm not saying cut him, I'm just saying I'm not as comfortable as some in counting on him.


DT, you are not the only one. If we are going to have Eric Berry hanging around the line of scrimmage for a considerable number of snaps, I think we need to consider competition at the free safety position by atleast looking to add a player that is more multi-dimensional. You are right, Lewis may have only missed X number of games so far but he seems to be dealing with nagging or little injuries quite often.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
They guy is consistently banged up, dinged up and now we see him missing time. And while I applaud his toughness, he was injured last season he just played through it because we had no other options. I'm not saying cut him, I'm just saying I'm not as comfortable as some in counting on him.


DT, you are not the only one. If we are going to have Eric Berry hanging around the line of scrimmage for a considerable number of snaps, I think we need to consider competition at the free safety position by atleast looking to add a player that is more multi-dimensional. You are right, Lewis may have only missed X number of games so far but he seems to be dealing with nagging or little injuries quite often.


With the Bills being big spenders this off season I could see them letting Jarius Byrd going. He is going to look for a BIG pay increase and I dont see how they are going to afford him on any level. Let a man dream here, but Byrd + Lewis + Berry would be sexxyyyyyyyy
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Ring of Fame


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Are people putting positions in by default now, because Belcher has outplayed Johnson so far this season. Pretty handily, IMO.

Anywho

1. QB
2. HC
3. DE (I still want more pressure there)
4. TE (Moeaki hasn't done anything impressive yet this year. Boss and Maneri have both outplayed him)


What is Belcher's job? He is essentially a one-trick poney TBH. His job is to take on blocks and defende the run. He is a sub-par coverage linebacker. Derrick Johnson is asked to handle several responsibilities and is very good in multiple roles within our defense.


But whoever we have at that spot is going to be the same. We're never going to keep two ILBs in on obvious passing downs, so we don't need a stellar coverage guy at that spot. He hasn't been a problem there this season anyway, and has been very good in run defense. He isn't a pressing issue based off of play this season.


I have to disagree with your take that Belcher hasn't been a problem this season.

In fact, I'd argue one of the simplest ways to begin attacking our defense is to isolate Belcher and teams have done it this year with good results. It's typically been full back flat routes or tight ends on the back end that he's being asked to cover and physically he's not up to the task. He limits our options in coverage situations, he's a plodder when it comes to running (he's all downhill, his hips don't turn) and his ball skills are non-existent. I like his background in wrestling, he understands leverage and thrives off of contact, but as far as athletes go, he's sub-par in this league.

I love Belcher's attitude and work ethic and I think he makes the cut on our 53-man roster, but he's absolutely a point of concern on this defense. While I don't see him as an immediate concern, I'm positive that upgrading at MLB is a priority.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Are people putting positions in by default now, because Belcher has outplayed Johnson so far this season. Pretty handily, IMO.

Anywho

1. QB
2. HC
3. DE (I still want more pressure there)
4. TE (Moeaki hasn't done anything impressive yet this year. Boss and Maneri have both outplayed him)


What is Belcher's job? He is essentially a one-trick poney TBH. His job is to take on blocks and defende the run. He is a sub-par coverage linebacker. Derrick Johnson is asked to handle several responsibilities and is very good in multiple roles within our defense.


But whoever we have at that spot is going to be the same. We're never going to keep two ILBs in on obvious passing downs, so we don't need a stellar coverage guy at that spot. He hasn't been a problem there this season anyway, and has been very good in run defense. He isn't a pressing issue based off of play this season.


I have to disagree with your take that Belcher hasn't been a problem this season.

In fact, I'd argue one of the simplest ways to begin attacking our defense is to isolate Belcher and teams have done it this year with good results. It's typically been full back flat routes or tight ends on the back end that he's being asked to cover and physically he's not up to the task. He limits our options in coverage situations, he's a plodder when it comes to running (he's all downhill, his hips don't turn) and his ball skills are non-existent. I like his background in wrestling, he understands leverage and thrives off of contact, but as far as athletes go, he's sub-par in this league.

I love Belcher's attitude and work ethic and I think he makes the cut on our 53-man roster, but he's absolutely a point of concern on this defense. While I don't see him as an immediate concern, I'm positive that upgrading at MLB is a priority.


I somewhat agree with this. I think Belcher is still capable of learning new things and becoming more of an all around player, but if this is truly what we are going to get from him for the next 4-6 years then I agree we can get a little more skilled at his position. Like you stated he will always be the right 53 type of player, and I think he will be a Chief for a long time. The only question, is he starting, or is he a backup?
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nicfre2011


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
Ring of Fame wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Are people putting positions in by default now, because Belcher has outplayed Johnson so far this season. Pretty handily, IMO.

Anywho

1. QB
2. HC
3. DE (I still want more pressure there)
4. TE (Moeaki hasn't done anything impressive yet this year. Boss and Maneri have both outplayed him)


What is Belcher's job? He is essentially a one-trick poney TBH. His job is to take on blocks and defende the run. He is a sub-par coverage linebacker. Derrick Johnson is asked to handle several responsibilities and is very good in multiple roles within our defense.


But whoever we have at that spot is going to be the same. We're never going to keep two ILBs in on obvious passing downs, so we don't need a stellar coverage guy at that spot. He hasn't been a problem there this season anyway, and has been very good in run defense. He isn't a pressing issue based off of play this season.


I have to disagree with your take that Belcher hasn't been a problem this season.

In fact, I'd argue one of the simplest ways to begin attacking our defense is to isolate Belcher and teams have done it this year with good results. It's typically been full back flat routes or tight ends on the back end that he's being asked to cover and physically he's not up to the task. He limits our options in coverage situations, he's a plodder when it comes to running (he's all downhill, his hips don't turn) and his ball skills are non-existent. I like his background in wrestling, he understands leverage and thrives off of contact, but as far as athletes go, he's sub-par in this league.

I love Belcher's attitude and work ethic and I think he makes the cut on our 53-man roster, but he's absolutely a point of concern on this defense. While I don't see him as an immediate concern, I'm positive that upgrading at MLB is a priority.


I somewhat agree with this. I think Belcher is still capable of learning new things and becoming more of an all around player, but if this is truly what we are going to get from him for the next 4-6 years then I agree we can get a little more skilled at his position. Like you stated he will always be the right 53 type of player, and I think he will be a Chief for a long time. The only question, is he starting, or is he a backup?


IMO Belcher (and Lewis for that matter) is an example of a player that while not exactly a glaring weakness that is holding a team back, he is one of those players that you always going to look to upgrade should the opportunity presents itself.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see Lewis and Berry back together before giving up on him, as both together were really good, and we had a lot more TO's.

To me that decision is do we look for a FS type in the 2nd, or maybe in the 4th round range. We need better depth and someone to push into the 3 safety sets.

Also, Lewis being dinged up is the life of Safety in the NFL for the most part IMO. Another reason we need better depth, because most starting safeties miss on average 1-2 games per season.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ring of Fame wrote:

I have to disagree with your take that Belcher hasn't been a problem this season.

In fact, I'd argue one of the simplest ways to begin attacking our defense is to isolate Belcher and teams have done it this year with good results. It's typically been full back flat routes or tight ends on the back end that he's being asked to cover and physically he's not up to the task. He limits our options in coverage situations, he's a plodder when it comes to running (he's all downhill, his hips don't turn) and his ball skills are non-existent. I like his background in wrestling, he understands leverage and thrives off of contact, but as far as athletes go, he's sub-par in this league.

I love Belcher's attitude and work ethic and I think he makes the cut on our 53-man roster, but he's absolutely a point of concern on this defense. While I don't see him as an immediate concern, I'm positive that upgrading at MLB is a priority.


I honestly haven't seen that same thing this year that you're suggesting. He got humiliated once on a pass to Scott Schandler where he bit on a play fake, but other than that, he's barely even been used in pass coverage, let alone been targetted. Only 58 snaps in coverage this year, and only targeted 5 times. He isn't in coverage enough to be a major concern. I'm not saying he can't be upgraded, don't get me wrong, but we're a 1-4 team and people are consistently putting him in our top 3 or 4 needs. That's ludicrous because for one, he isn't that bad. He's the Glen Dorsey or Tyson Jackson of the ILB position. And second, his impact is minimal either positive or negative to the point where it isn't ever a major need. Only two teams in the NFL have had two ILBs play over 75% of their defensive snaps, and those teams are Arizona, with Lenon and Washington, and Washington, with Fletcher and Riley. And in both cases, they don't do this because their ILBs are key, they do it because their secondary depth plays less of a role than teams like us or Green Bay, where slot corners and third safeties play large roles. Belcher plays about one third to one half of our snaps, and of that, about three fourths are running plays. He's fine for that role on this particular team.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Belcher being on the need list is mostly a result of most people not seeing that many true needs, but rather just upgradeable players, outside of QB of course. If we didn't so desperately need a QB, I'd be all over drafting Manti Teo in the 1st.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
They guy is consistently banged up, dinged up and now we see him missing time. And while I applaud his toughness, he was injured last season he just played through it because we had no other options. I'm not saying cut him, I'm just saying I'm not as comfortable as some in counting on him.


DT, you are not the only one. If we are going to have Eric Berry hanging around the line of scrimmage for a considerable number of snaps, I think we need to consider competition at the free safety position by atleast looking to add a player that is more multi-dimensional. You are right, Lewis may have only missed X number of games so far but he seems to be dealing with nagging or little injuries quite often.


I agree we should look to get a young swing safety, it's just not a pressing need. Backup safety has absolutely nothing to do with our struggles.

As for Belcher, I think our stance should be we don't need to go out of our way to seek a replacement, but if a good value falls to us in the draft or if there is an upgrade available in FA for a good price, go for it. However after we get a QB and CB, it's the next position along with a 3rd safety i'd be looking for an upgrade as the roster stands now.

Bigs I agree with your comment about ILB only popping up because we don't see many needs. Then again, others would tell us we're a dillusional fan base if we think the only position that must be upgraded to be a playoff competitor is QB.
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
DT58_lives_on wrote:
They guy is consistently banged up, dinged up and now we see him missing time. And while I applaud his toughness, he was injured last season he just played through it because we had no other options. I'm not saying cut him, I'm just saying I'm not as comfortable as some in counting on him.


DT, you are not the only one. If we are going to have Eric Berry hanging around the line of scrimmage for a considerable number of snaps, I think we need to consider competition at the free safety position by atleast looking to add a player that is more multi-dimensional. You are right, Lewis may have only missed X number of games so far but he seems to be dealing with nagging or little injuries quite often.


I agree we should look to get a young swing safety, it's just not a pressing need. Backup safety has absolutely nothing to do with our struggles.


Of course. Part of addressing needs is not only looking at immediate needs but also projecting future needs or taking opportunities to upgrade should the situation presents itself.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
I think Belcher being on the need list is mostly a result of most people not seeing that many true needs, but rather just upgradeable players, outside of QB of course. If we didn't so desperately need a QB, I'd be all over drafting Manti Teo in the 1st.


If no QB high, then maybe Star or Xavier. Then trade back up into round 1 and grab Tyler Wilson. Nice!
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I woukdnt mind Jake Knott from Iowa State as a replacement for Belcher, 3rd rounder, good size, good Football IQ, great instincts and tackling. Playmaker despite lacking elite-level athleticism.
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