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If Browns go 0-7; I Think Shurmur is Fired Immediately
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FLAbrownfan


Joined: 29 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
Anyone who actually wants Shurmur to remain the coach......................why??????????????????????

.


I do.... I would like us to give the guy a a chance, plus I belive this front office and the staff are really improving this roster every offseason, blowing it all up, brining in a new head coach means new OC, DC and most position coaches too- new playbook to learn and so on .

Let's give the guy a true weapon outside (maybe flash develops ) and a def. with some of our best players on D not out (Taylor, Haden, gocong, DQ now....)

We are making strides people, the coaching staff is not allways to blame for mishaps let's put some responsibility on the players!
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DawgX


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shurmur won't be fired in the middle of the season. What would be the point in that? He could be fired at the end of the season, but I don't think it's a sure thing. How many head coaches would be successful coaching a team filled with such young and inexperienced players? Not many. I think I would probably be sort of indifferent if he's fired. I think he could become a respectable head coach but then again, there could be better options out there.

Really, as long as Heckert remains the GM then I'll be happy.
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest difference between Indianapolis, Miami and other bad teams finding ways to win and the Browns not finding a way to win is not on coaching. I don't think some of you even watch other teams outside of our game. The only difference is those teams have legit NFL secondaries and we don't period. We have by far the worst secondary in the league. QBs hardly even have to try to find guys wide open because it happens on every play and most times its more than one guy wide open. Every CB on this team except Haden is pathetic. Every saftey on this team is pathetic except Ward and he is no cover man. As good as Jackson is he is still a very bad coverage linebacker. Scott Fujita couldn't run with a tackle eligable. Kaluka Maiava doesn't have a clue.

You need to be able to defend the pass to win no matter how many points your offense scores and we can't cover a good college passing attack.
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Shurmur will be fired immediately, but it's getting harder to defend him.

The playcalling overall was OK, but all it takes is a couple headscratchers to lose a game that you should win. I'm certainly not blaming this loss solely on Shurmur, but he still struggles with adjusting to the flow of the game. Playcalling is always an easy target, and I almost always give the playcaller the benefit of the doubt, but Shurmur does at least a couple boneheaded moves every game.

And now, for me, the worst part..... he seems to have started the finger-pointing, while mildly throwing players under the bus. That's pretty much the only way he could lose the locker room, so I hope he wises up.

On a semi-related note, this was the first time I was sorely dissatisfied with Jauron's game plan. The execution was worse than the game plan, and I know he tried to scheme around key guys being out, but we were thoroughly thrashed on defense. Disappointing.
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Reginaldm9


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
The biggest difference between Indianapolis, Miami and other bad teams finding ways to win and the Browns not finding a way to win is not on coaching. I don't think some of you even watch other teams outside of our game. The only difference is those teams have legit NFL secondaries and we don't period. We have by far the worst secondary in the league. QBs hardly even have to try to find guys wide open because it happens on every play and most times its more than one guy wide open. Every CB on this team except Haden is pathetic. Every saftey on this team is pathetic except Ward and he is no cover man. As good as Jackson is he is still a very bad coverage linebacker. Scott Fujita couldn't run with a tackle eligable. Kaluka Maiava doesn't have a clue.

You need to be able to defend the pass to win no matter how many points your offense scores and we can't cover a good college passing attack.


While I'm 100% behind this statement, you shouldn't forget about our aversion to stopping the run. If we are able to keep distance on 1st and second down, we would make it much harder for teams to convert. Of course, this doesn't stop big plays, but it certainly would get our offense on the field more often than it usually is.
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reginaldm9 wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
The biggest difference between Indianapolis, Miami and other bad teams finding ways to win and the Browns not finding a way to win is not on coaching. I don't think some of you even watch other teams outside of our game. The only difference is those teams have legit NFL secondaries and we don't period. We have by far the worst secondary in the league. QBs hardly even have to try to find guys wide open because it happens on every play and most times its more than one guy wide open. Every CB on this team except Haden is pathetic. Every saftey on this team is pathetic except Ward and he is no cover man. As good as Jackson is he is still a very bad coverage linebacker. Scott Fujita couldn't run with a tackle eligable. Kaluka Maiava doesn't have a clue.

You need to be able to defend the pass to win no matter how many points your offense scores and we can't cover a good college passing attack.


While I'm 100% behind this statement, you shouldn't forget about our aversion to stopping the run. If we are able to keep distance on 1st and second down, we would make it much harder for teams to convert. Of course, this doesn't stop big plays, but it certainly would get our offense on the field more often than it usually is.


Losing Phil Taylor obviously hurt us there and we'll get better when he gets back, but as I have said for awhile now Chris Gocong is the most underrated player on the team. He was the enforcer on our defense. He is great at setting the edge and not giving an inch. He'll never chase anyone down from behind like Jackson or Ray Lewis but they guy controls his gap period. We miss him greatly.

Also, that pathetic secondary I just talked about is also a huge part of the problem against the run. Not only can they not cover but they are all puss-in-cleats when it comes to sticking there nose in on a tackle. Joe Haden is fearless and a great open field tackler. The big run plays, at least to his side, will stop when he gets back.

We need Phil Taylor for the DL to be successful

We need Chris Gocong for the LBs to be succesful

We need Joe Haden for the DBs to be succesful

We are missing all three and have for the last 4 games. Not good when you are trying to win in the NFL.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing our garbage secondary makes me appreciate Haden
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
I don't think Shurmur will be fired immediately, but it's getting harder to defend him.

The playcalling overall was OK, but all it takes is a couple headscratchers to lose a game that you should win. I'm certainly not blaming this loss solely on Shurmur, but he still struggles with adjusting to the flow of the game. Playcalling is always an easy target, and I almost always give the playcaller the benefit of the doubt, but Shurmur does at least a couple boneheaded moves every game.

And now, for me, the worst part..... he seems to have started the finger-pointing, while mildly throwing players under the bus. That's pretty much the only way he could lose the locker room, so I hope he wises up.

On a semi-related note, this was the first time I was sorely dissatisfied with Jauron's game plan. The execution was worse than the game plan, and I know he tried to scheme around key guys being out, but we were thoroughly thrashed on defense. Disappointing.


I think I missed this.

What happened?
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
I don't think Shurmur will be fired immediately, but it's getting harder to defend him.

The playcalling overall was OK, but all it takes is a couple headscratchers to lose a game that you should win. I'm certainly not blaming this loss solely on Shurmur, but he still struggles with adjusting to the flow of the game. Playcalling is always an easy target, and I almost always give the playcaller the benefit of the doubt, but Shurmur does at least a couple boneheaded moves every game.

And now, for me, the worst part..... he seems to have started the finger-pointing, while mildly throwing players under the bus. That's pretty much the only way he could lose the locker room, so I hope he wises up.

On a semi-related note, this was the first time I was sorely dissatisfied with Jauron's game plan. The execution was worse than the game plan, and I know he tried to scheme around key guys being out, but we were thoroughly thrashed on defense. Disappointing.


I think I missed this.

What happened?

It wasn't anything major. He was just a little too quick to point the finger at Weeden in his postgame PC, imo. Weeden may take it in stride, but I've always admired coaches who would take the majority of the blame (even if it wasn't their fault). You can correct/teach your players all you want, but I don't think you should do it in front of the press.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm defending Shumur. He should remain HC. Here's why.

-the Defense suffers mostly b/c of injuries and suspension.

Now, I know this is a part of every NFL team. There is a difference though. We not only have several starters out of defense, they are our BEST players on defense. Haden is a top 5 CB by anyone's standards. DQ is a pro bowl worthy MLB. Gocong can play WLB with the best of them and is vicious in the run game. Rubin is the most underrated DT in the league. Phil Taylor is a athletic phenom at 335 lbs.

To run salt into the wound, the backups at these critical positions are 6th, 7th and udrafted free agents.

- The offense has struggled mostly due to inexperience.

You can't do anything about that except coach, and wait. A rookie QB, RB, RT, and WRx2. a second year player/starter at LG, RG, FB, WR, and TE.

The only experience on offense is at LT, C, TE, and backups. And this is while tying to install one of the most complicated offensive systems there is.

This whole team needs time. 3 years is time. Not 21 games.
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm late to this party, but count me in the group who thinks Shurmur should be gone sooner than the offseason. I feel like I'm fully capable of seperating bad player play and injuries from Shurmur's performance, and I still just can't justify him being a head coach in the nfl. For those of you who've seen "The Replacements", yesterday was exactly what Keanu Reeves character was talking about when he mentioned quicksand (and for those of you who haven't seen it, let me know what it's like to have deprived yourself of such greatness). The players got a 14 point lead and I'm sure were extremely anxious to protect it, so when they started watching the secondary get chewed up, that's when they fell in the quicksand and instead of having a head coach / leader to work his magic and bail them out, they looked and saw Shurmur right there next to them. Also, as evidenced by the post game presser, I think Shurmur has let the pressure get to him, which is not what these young players need. I'm for bringing down Chilly and handing him the reigns.

I've agreed with many of you that blowing it up every two years isn't the answer, but I've also reminded myself that no one is perfect, so it is possible that Shurmur just wasnt the answer. I think at this point, there's a sunk cost in Shurmur that people are just not willing to give up, just like someone whose stock has tanked and they want to hold onto it in the hopes that it turns around and nets them their money back, instead of cutting their losses.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing is for sure, I'm sick of having this conversation every year or two.
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BwickBrownie


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fsubrowns9510 wrote:
One thing is for sure, I'm sick of having this conversation every year or two.


+1

This team couldnt catch a break if their name were the Kit-Kats
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
I don't think Shurmur will be fired immediately, but it's getting harder to defend him.

The playcalling overall was OK, but all it takes is a couple headscratchers to lose a game that you should win. I'm certainly not blaming this loss solely on Shurmur, but he still struggles with adjusting to the flow of the game. Playcalling is always an easy target, and I almost always give the playcaller the benefit of the doubt, but Shurmur does at least a couple boneheaded moves every game.

And now, for me, the worst part..... he seems to have started the finger-pointing, while mildly throwing players under the bus. That's pretty much the only way he could lose the locker room, so I hope he wises up.

On a semi-related note, this was the first time I was sorely dissatisfied with Jauron's game plan. The execution was worse than the game plan, and I know he tried to scheme around key guys being out, but we were thoroughly thrashed on defense. Disappointing.


Great post, but, I have to disagree a bit with the last part.

There is really no game plan for the guys we had playing defense yesterday. 1/2 of the defense consisted of backups, most of whom are late round picks/UDFA's.

No DC is going to make that work against a HOF QB and a generally sound offense.
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fsubrowns9510


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
I don't think Shurmur will be fired immediately, but it's getting harder to defend him.

The playcalling overall was OK, but all it takes is a couple headscratchers to lose a game that you should win. I'm certainly not blaming this loss solely on Shurmur, but he still struggles with adjusting to the flow of the game. Playcalling is always an easy target, and I almost always give the playcaller the benefit of the doubt, but Shurmur does at least a couple boneheaded moves every game.

And now, for me, the worst part..... he seems to have started the finger-pointing, while mildly throwing players under the bus. That's pretty much the only way he could lose the locker room, so I hope he wises up.

On a semi-related note, this was the first time I was sorely dissatisfied with Jauron's game plan. The execution was worse than the game plan, and I know he tried to scheme around key guys being out, but we were thoroughly thrashed on defense. Disappointing.


Great post, but, I have to disagree a bit with the last part.

There is really no game plan for the guys we had playing defense yesterday. 1/2 of the defense consisted of backups, most of whom are late round picks/UDFA's.

No DC is going to make that work against a HOF QB and a generally sound offense.


Who?

Sheard
Rucker
Rubin
Fujita
DQ for almost a half
Patterson -- he was signed for quite a bit 5m+/year
Young
Ward
Brown

All penciled in as starters.

Yea the secondary is beat up but that lineup should have been able to produce better than they did, especially when a team is on their 3rd and 4th WRs. I know a few guys there left early, but we were getting hammered before they left.
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