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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Bottom line, myself personally, there's no interest at all in acquiring Johnson. His play isn't worth a damn (2.9 YPC), he doesn't actually fix our problem (Which begins and ends up front) and he's making too much money. We can get William Powell to average 2.9 a carry and he'll do it for 300 thousand. For me, there's simply no interest. |
Understandable. Interested to see what they want to do with Powell this week.
My guess is that if the backs don't perform they way they hope against a below average run defense like the Bills, we will become more active in looking for help.
Jurecki just tweeted we are "status quo" on the matter.
Test trial run this Sunday I suppose. |
That's what I figured monday when I saw Whiz say he wasn't in a rush to add anyone. Wait and see how this week goes, evaluate from there.
If we do try and trade for someone, I'd bet it'd be someone with a lower profile/lower cost. Chris Ivory's name has been floated a few times but a few people, he'd make a lot of sense. |
We've struggled in short yardage and on first down. You hate to say it but we need a back like Edge who could plot his way toward positive yards so the offense wasn't going backwards. |
Not to beat a dead horse but Chris Johnson leads the league in carries for negative yardage. Anyone who's seen him run knows he's a dancer.
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Bottom line, myself personally, there's no interest at all in acquiring Johnson. His play isn't worth a damn (2.9 YPC), he doesn't actually fix our problem (Which begins and ends up front) and he's making too much money. We can get William Powell to average 2.9 a carry and he'll do it for 300 thousand. For me, there's simply no interest. |
Understandable. Interested to see what they want to do with Powell this week.
My guess is that if the backs don't perform they way they hope against a below average run defense like the Bills, we will become more active in looking for help.
Jurecki just tweeted we are "status quo" on the matter.
Test trial run this Sunday I suppose. |
That's what I figured monday when I saw Whiz say he wasn't in a rush to add anyone. Wait and see how this week goes, evaluate from there.
If we do try and trade for someone, I'd bet it'd be someone with a lower profile/lower cost. Chris Ivory's name has been floated a few times but a few people, he'd make a lot of sense. |
We've struggled in short yardage and on first down. You hate to say it but we need a back like Edge who could plot his way toward positive yards so the offense wasn't going backwards. |
Not to beat a dead horse but Chris Johnson leads the league in carries for negative yardage. Anyone who's seen him run knows he's a dancer. |
So did Barry Sanders 
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | JohnnyV wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Bottom line, myself personally, there's no interest at all in acquiring Johnson. His play isn't worth a damn (2.9 YPC), he doesn't actually fix our problem (Which begins and ends up front) and he's making too much money. We can get William Powell to average 2.9 a carry and he'll do it for 300 thousand. For me, there's simply no interest. |
Understandable. Interested to see what they want to do with Powell this week.
My guess is that if the backs don't perform they way they hope against a below average run defense like the Bills, we will become more active in looking for help.
Jurecki just tweeted we are "status quo" on the matter.
Test trial run this Sunday I suppose. |
That's what I figured monday when I saw Whiz say he wasn't in a rush to add anyone. Wait and see how this week goes, evaluate from there.
If we do try and trade for someone, I'd bet it'd be someone with a lower profile/lower cost. Chris Ivory's name has been floated a few times but a few people, he'd make a lot of sense. |
We've struggled in short yardage and on first down. You hate to say it but we need a back like Edge who could plot his way toward positive yards so the offense wasn't going backwards. |
Not to beat a dead horse but Chris Johnson leads the league in carries for negative yardage. Anyone who's seen him run knows he's a dancer. |
So did Barry Sanders |
LOL, you're the one who said you wanted a plotter...
Barry Sanders also ran behind had 6-time Pro Bowl tackle Lomas Brown and 2-time Pro Bowl center Kevin Glover. We have D'Anthony Batiste and Lyle Sendlein.
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Adam Schefter on William Powell: "There's buzz in the #Cardinals org. about him. Some ppl in the org. believe Powell can get the job done."
So they hope...
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not too worried about it. He can move along for 2-3-whatever a carry real easy, which is more or equal too the yardage anyone else would give us or had given us prior to this week.
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iRobot
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 778
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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"Buzz" is right. That's all it is thus far.. they believe their current stable can get work done.
Now, we'll see what happens but come week 7 or week 8, if the RB stable cannot do work, expect them to bring in a FA before making a trade. I could see Slaton being brought in here before anyone else. He had a good season with Houston but could also be seen as a product of a run friendly zone blocking scheme. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| iRobot wrote: | "Buzz" is right. That's all it is thus far.. they believe their current stable can get work done.
Now, we'll see what happens but come week 7 or week 8, if the RB stable cannot do work, expect them to bring in a FA before making a trade. I could see Slaton being brought in here before anyone else. He had a good season with Houston but could also be seen as a product of a run friendly zone blocking scheme. |
Slaton would be an odd choice IMO. We shipped out Hightower because of the fumbling issues. Slaton's got those in spades.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48517
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyV wrote: | | LSH can't carry the rock 20 times a game, and Powell already has a concussion. |
1 - Who says he can't
2 - Why do we need a back to carry it 20 times a game.
If you look at how we have historically run our offense, 20 carries a game has not been paramount, and even when we have wanted to do that we have split the carries between backs. Williams this season has had 8-10-13-13 and 14 carries in games. Wells has had 7-14-8, whatever we do we are going to split carries. Powell will get 15, LSH 8-12 and Smith a 2 or 3 here and there. That we we are looking at around 25-30 total carries for the game from our backs, again IF we want to do that offensively.
At the back end of last season LSH started a game vs Seattle and had 21 carries for 93 yards. He can do it if you really need him to.
I am not even going to get into how absurd it would be to try and get Chris Johnson, first off he struggles behind a runblocking OL that is better than ours. He is not the kind of back that keeps and offense on schedule, but rather will get a chunk here or a chunk there interspresed with a group of negative or no gain runs. Second off the Titans are not going to trade him now for a mid or late round pick, they are not going to risk the potential fan backlash that comes with that, even if they are going to lose him at the end of the season, and the bottom line with this is whether or not they lose him is entirely their choice. Imagine the uproar if we traded Larry Fitzgerald for a 2nd or 3rd round pick in 2010 when he was about to come off contract. Finally you want to trade a draft pick for an 11 week rental that is averaging 2.9 YPC this season.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 9839
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Nevermind the 2-4 years argument, a 1st round pick who only plays 4 years for your team is an incredible waste. |
Depends on the player & situation. MJD for 4 years is too much to give for that position. A top 5 tackle for 4 years would be a steal for us. I'm not comfortable just signing some scrub like Thomas Jones or Steve Slaton. There's a reason those guys are unemployed. Give the Bills a mid rounder for Jackson who's under contract thru the 14-15 season. We CANNOT make it thru this season without a LEGIT back. |
Disagree with basically this entire post. No offense. |
I'm deeply hurt. Are you not agreeing we're in "win now" mode? You think Seattle regrets trading for Marshawn Lynch midseason?
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48517
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | I'm deeply hurt. Are you not agreeing we're in "win now" mode? You think Seattle regrets trading for Marshawn Lynch midseason? |
NFL teams should always be in win now mode. But win now mode does not mean you sacrifice the future for the present.
I have no doubt this team can make it through the season and win double digit football games without a legit back. What it needs is someone from the RB position to create positive yardage on the ground. We don't need a legitimate back to have a running game that teams need to respect in that they know we can run the ball on first and ten for 4-5 yards. They know we can convert those 3rd and shorts.
I beleive we can acheive that with William Powell. It says a hell of a lot about the kid and the trust this team has in him that he was put out there in pass protection schemes ahead of other backs.
What it says about him is that he is a well rounded back, he can block, he can catch. It says he is mentally aware, he knows the game, he knows the calls on offense, he knows the blitz pickups. (It bears noting these are things that Beanie has struggled with his entire career).
I like what we have in Williams Powell, I have looked at what he did in preseason and a lot of what he did was finding holes that did not exist and turning them into big plays.
Bringing in a back who we would then have to either A] Give him a crash course in the offense and all the language and verbiage/numerals that go along with that and hope he picks up up or B] Dumb down the offense to incorporate him fully and allow him to play on third downs, to allow him to play in a no-huddle set.
You cannot just trade for Chris Johnson, Fred Jackson or Maurice Jones-Drew (Apart from the fact we likely have to part with a first round pick for any of the three) and then throw them into the fire and expect them to know every little detail of what is going on on offense. It is not as easy as "We are going to run off tackle left here". It is a matter of depth in the backfield, knowing the audible calls, if the play has been changed to a pass know your role in that new play, are you blocking, which gap are you reading, are you the spare pickup man, are you chipping then leaking, is it a screen.
Adding a back no does nothing for this offense, we will not see the full benefits of that for a good 6-8 weeks, and by that time not only is the season almost over, we have Beanie Wells back.
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Patrick Peterson - 92 targets, 40 catches allowed, 602 yards, 6 TD's, 7 INT's
The Big Brain am winning again, I am the Greetest. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52947
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | Nevermind the 2-4 years argument, a 1st round pick who only plays 4 years for your team is an incredible waste. |
Depends on the player & situation. MJD for 4 years is too much to give for that position. A top 5 tackle for 4 years would be a steal for us. I'm not comfortable just signing some scrub like Thomas Jones or Steve Slaton. There's a reason those guys are unemployed. Give the Bills a mid rounder for Jackson who's under contract thru the 14-15 season. We CANNOT make it thru this season without a LEGIT back. |
Disagree with basically this entire post. No offense. |
I'm deeply hurt. Are you not agreeing we're in "win now" mode? You think Seattle regrets trading for Marshawn Lynch midseason? |
1. I think 4 years for any player costing us a 1st round pick is an incredible waste. If we took a college player in round 1 and he only played here 4 years, you know what we'd call him? A bust. Even with elite play, 4 years is simply far too little time for a 1st round pick.
2. Marshawn Lynch was 24 years old at the time of that trade...
3. IMO a legit back, or lackthereof, isn't our problem.
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Yibbyl
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2125
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree to checking the availability of a RB right now, but as others have said, not at significant expense to the team's future. I like the possibility of landing Ivory, but, though I'd love the extra draft pick for my Bills, Freddy Jackson is definitely not worth a 1st, 2nd, probably not even a 3rd rounder. In fact, I probably wouldn't pursue him at all! Yeah, he does everything well, but he is starting to show signs of decline IMHO and you can't blame it on last year's injury. He had a broken leg, not something lingering like an ACL. He could start this year here for sure, but by next year would probably be splitting carries/nothing more than a situational guy. Ivory would serve the exact same purpose (both years) and I bet can be had for a later pick than Jackson. You'd give up some pass protection and burst, but at least it wouldn't cost a 4th round pick.
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younggun1273
Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 6892
Location: Tallahassee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ivory is not even active this year. I know we don't have leverage but a 6th or 7th for him really ought to do it.
Edgerrin James came to AZ when he was 28 and was not able to run for over 4.0 YPC. The whole idea of trading for a 28 year old physical running-style back with a ton of mileage is just not an attractive option.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48517
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| younggun1273 wrote: | Ivory is not even active this year. I know we don't have leverage but a 6th or 7th for him really ought to do it.
Edgerrin James came to AZ when he was 28 and was not able to run for over 4.0 YPC. The whole idea of trading for a 28 year old physical running-style back with a ton of mileage is just not an attractive option. |
If we could trade a 7th that could be a 6th based on PT I would be willing to do that. But I think that a team like GB would up the price.
And for Ivory it would not be a this season thing either, I would like to have him as a back on this team going forwards. Biggest issue I have with Ivory is the numbers he put up were with Nicks and Evans at guard.
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Patrick Peterson - 92 targets, 40 catches allowed, 602 yards, 6 TD's, 7 INT's
The Big Brain am winning again, I am the Greetest. |
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beachside_eagle
Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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You locals got any clue how things are gonna shake out this Sunday?
For my fantasy team, I added Powell to handcuff Williams once Beanie got hurt. He looked good in the preseason but the only matchup worth starting him would be this week against the Bills. |
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