Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

When is it okay to talk down to people?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> This aint sports talk!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HighHopes


Moderator
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 27075
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


Ill just say 2 thinks about this line.

A teacher? (Im sorry but its hard to believe a teacher has this attitude)

You have an elitist attitude and its what most of us have a problem with.
_________________
XBL/PSN: Chainedsniper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DetroitSpirit


Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3271
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon now, you can't talk about only respecting prodigies and potential, and all this life experience when your a teacher. I mean...a teacher? Not a professor, not a doctor, not a lawyer. A teacher.

For all I know you could be a very good teacher, and some teachers do deserve respect. Other teachers on the other hand half-[inappropriate/removed] the job and won't give the attention the kids need to the kids that need the attention.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BigBillsFan13


Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 15909
Location: So Cal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
x0x wrote:
I've come to realize a few things in this thread.


1. Most did not understand the OP. Like some have mentioned, it is sometimes perceived as appropriate to put someone in their place when they are consistently spouting ignorant rhetoric. If the 20 year old in the OP was 40, his ignorant comments would have still be ridiculed. The fact he was younger allowed us to point out more issues with his comments. It's actually more embarrassing for an adult to make the comments he made.
No, we all understand it. It's just comments like:
Quote:
2. Most people on this forum are of the younger age group, I believe it's 80% 25 and under (50% 20 and under) and became very defensive when I mentioned younger age groups. Understand guys that I'm not talking down to you if you're at that age, I just don't have the respect for you as my peers who have accomplished quite a lot in their lives so far. I see potential in some of you and that's what I love about teaching. However life experience cannot be understated. It hits you like a train.
That make people respond the way they do. That and the "I don't respect young people because what have they ever done?" attitude.

Nobody has said life experience isn't relevant. Nobody has said it's worthless. Most people are simply arguing that life experience is not the be-all, end-all that you're making it out to be.

You're presumptuous. You're assuming that a younger person doesn't have anything of value to add, simply because that person is younger. That's pretty direct arrogance, patronization, and dismissiveness that rubs just about everybody the wrong way. Your attitude is essentially, "Prove to me that you're worth listening to." It's beyond insulting. You have clearly realized little throughout this thread.

But go ahead and disregard my opinion. After all, I am like a year younger than you.

Don't worry fret, I agree with you completely, and since I'm older than x0x, he has to respect my opinion, right?
_________________
-Hope- wrote:
BBF droppin cold hard facts up in hurr
bucsfan333 wrote:
BBF doesn't get run over by cars, cars get run over by BBF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
S-jax39


Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 6523
Location: [D]MV
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighHopes wrote:
x0x wrote:
BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


Ill just say 2 thinks about this line.

A teacher? (Im sorry but its hard to believe a teacher has this attitude)

You have an elitist attitude and its what most of us have a problem with.


I honestly dont see the problem...majority of people dont have this potential and as a teacher its probably easier to see..

As long as hes not treating his students any different whats the problem?
_________________
aceinthehouse wrote:

And those picking the Rams are crazy.
They won't win 8 games.
I guarantee it.
I mean...Bradford never does...
Stick that in your sig & smoke it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John232


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 10426
Location: A place where everybody is from somewhere else.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x0x wrote:


I've seen these stories in other threads as well as outliers.

So what is your final point? That I should assume everyone has had sufficient life experience ignoring the overwhelming norm?

Your friend certainly has my respect from his story alone, but he is an amazing case.


As I stated already, I've met very bright individuals, they have more respect than most of my friends who are older and achieved more. These individuals have this respect because I see their potential as so much more than what most people have.


BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


But that's my point. You wouldn't have any respect for my friend because there is no way you would ever know this about him without sitting down and just listening to him for a long time. So it's NOT about potential being the key to your respect. It's common decency to respect someone for what you do not know about them, or what they've gone through. By assuming that most young people do not have potential you've already committed in error in logic, as well as making a massive generalization because that person has to fit whatever your view of "potential" is.

To me, it seems you have a very narrow view on this subject and on people. I find that very sad.
_________________

xsaMainevent on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fretgod99


Global Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 19186
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBillsFan13 wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
x0x wrote:
I've come to realize a few things in this thread.


1. Most did not understand the OP. Like some have mentioned, it is sometimes perceived as appropriate to put someone in their place when they are consistently spouting ignorant rhetoric. If the 20 year old in the OP was 40, his ignorant comments would have still be ridiculed. The fact he was younger allowed us to point out more issues with his comments. It's actually more embarrassing for an adult to make the comments he made.
No, we all understand it. It's just comments like:
Quote:
2. Most people on this forum are of the younger age group, I believe it's 80% 25 and under (50% 20 and under) and became very defensive when I mentioned younger age groups. Understand guys that I'm not talking down to you if you're at that age, I just don't have the respect for you as my peers who have accomplished quite a lot in their lives so far. I see potential in some of you and that's what I love about teaching. However life experience cannot be understated. It hits you like a train.
That make people respond the way they do. That and the "I don't respect young people because what have they ever done?" attitude.

Nobody has said life experience isn't relevant. Nobody has said it's worthless. Most people are simply arguing that life experience is not the be-all, end-all that you're making it out to be.

You're presumptuous. You're assuming that a younger person doesn't have anything of value to add, simply because that person is younger. That's pretty direct arrogance, patronization, and dismissiveness that rubs just about everybody the wrong way. Your attitude is essentially, "Prove to me that you're worth listening to." It's beyond insulting. You have clearly realized little throughout this thread.

But go ahead and disregard my opinion. After all, I am like a year younger than you.
Don't worry fret, I agree with you completely, and since I'm older than x0x, he has to respect my opinion, right?
Laughing

Nah, you probably have insufficient life experience. Or maybe it's just the wrong kind. Or, you know, something else.
_________________

MrDrew wrote:
Can somebody give me a good reason there's not a giant statue to fret somewhere?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John232


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 10426
Location: A place where everybody is from somewhere else.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S-jax39 wrote:
HighHopes wrote:
x0x wrote:
BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


Ill just say 2 thinks about this line.

A teacher? (Im sorry but its hard to believe a teacher has this attitude)

You have an elitist attitude and its what most of us have a problem with.


I honestly dont see the problem...majority of people dont have this potential and as a teacher its probably easier to see..

As long as hes not treating his students any different whats the problem?



That's where you're wrong though. Teachers have a better view of some things but they are by no means the oracles and they cannot predict where someone is going to be in a couple years or how much potential they have just based on their experience in their classroom.

I was a terrible student in high school. I had 1.6 gpa and really did not care for it. I just graduated deans list with a portfiolio and legitimate work experience in a very hard, challenging field(film). MOST people shared this opinion of me in high school. None of them do now. Because they had no idea of what I was capable of when I was motivated. Point is, potential does not always show itself so WHY would you judge someone based solely off that (and often times what they haven't done yet).
_________________

xsaMainevent on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ramssuperbowl99


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 23147
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
Nah, you probably have insufficient life experience because you disagree with my opinion.
FTFY
_________________

Title Town USA wrote:
Don't question Rams. He runs this place. He is The Man.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
S-jax39


Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 6523
Location: [D]MV
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John232 wrote:
S-jax39 wrote:
HighHopes wrote:
x0x wrote:
BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


Ill just say 2 thinks about this line.

A teacher? (Im sorry but its hard to believe a teacher has this attitude)

You have an elitist attitude and its what most of us have a problem with.


I honestly dont see the problem...majority of people dont have this potential and as a teacher its probably easier to see..

As long as hes not treating his students any different whats the problem?



That's where you're wrong though. Teachers have a better view of some things but they are by no means the oracles and they cannot predict where someone is going to be in a couple years or how much potential they have just based on their experience in their classroom.

I was a terrible student in high school. I had 1.6 gpa and really did not care for it. I just graduated deans list with a portfiolio and legitimate work experience in a very hard, challenging field(film). MOST people shared this opinion of me in high school. None of them do now. Because they had no idea of what I was capable of when I was motivated. Point is, potential does not always show itself so WHY would you judge someone based solely off that (and often times what they haven't done yet).


Obviously they are not oracles and arent going to be right, but if your performing poorly and its his opinion that you wont amount to much but he never treats you any different from any other students then whats the problem?
_________________
aceinthehouse wrote:

And those picking the Rams are crazy.
They won't win 8 games.
I guarantee it.
I mean...Bradford never does...
Stick that in your sig & smoke it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1King


Moderator
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 33485
Location: daboyle250 on the sig.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S-jax39 wrote:
John232 wrote:
S-jax39 wrote:
HighHopes wrote:
x0x wrote:
BUT, I do not assume most people, let alone younger individuals, have this potential.


Ill just say 2 thinks about this line.

A teacher? (Im sorry but its hard to believe a teacher has this attitude)

You have an elitist attitude and its what most of us have a problem with.


I honestly dont see the problem...majority of people dont have this potential and as a teacher its probably easier to see..

As long as hes not treating his students any different whats the problem?



That's where you're wrong though. Teachers have a better view of some things but they are by no means the oracles and they cannot predict where someone is going to be in a couple years or how much potential they have just based on their experience in their classroom.

I was a terrible student in high school. I had 1.6 gpa and really did not care for it. I just graduated deans list with a portfiolio and legitimate work experience in a very hard, challenging field(film). MOST people shared this opinion of me in high school. None of them do now. Because they had no idea of what I was capable of when I was motivated. Point is, potential does not always show itself so WHY would you judge someone based solely off that (and often times what they haven't done yet).


Obviously they are not oracles and arent going to be right, but if your performing poorly and its his opinion that you wont amount to much but he never treats you any different from any other students then whats the problem?


What if Lions had wings and could fly?
_________________


El ramster wrote:
1king showing why he's one the best posters in this site.


candyman93 wrote:
1king is showing why he's awesome


TEAM STYLISH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 29596
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly tend to be as nice as possible. If a person says ignorant things, I might try to educate them. But if it's obvious they aren't open to listening, I just let them wallow in their ignorance. No sense talking down to them. It's not going to make me feel any better or look any more superior. I kno who I am and I know what I have done. I amk comnfortable in my own skin and dont need to prove anything to anyone. It's all good.

Reminds me of a time when I was at a party and some friend of a friend kept acting like a big shot. Kept talking like he was the man and made all kinds of money. And I knew for a fact I made substantially more (my friend and the guy were co-workers, so I knew what he was making). I didnt make it an issue. I could have clowned the dude. But I let him talk about his 200 dollar shoes and how awesome he thought he was all night. Why should I stop him? The joke was on him. Even if it was just an inside joke.
_________________

CK on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mistakebytehlak


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 44493
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lookin back, I was kindof a bully growing up Sad My sarcasm took a turn for the worse somewhere along the way. Protected myself via words (wasnt tall enough to get myself out of trouble by being physically imposing) so I had to get quick on my feet. Prob is I got too quick.

Im actively trying to be nicer in general. I'm still prob too mean on the internet but, its the internet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IDOG_det


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 23832
Location: Ron Paul 2012 #JDI
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time it is okay is if it's a joke between 2 people that both realize it's a joke and kept between the 2, but even then it usually ends bad, so usually never.
_________________
2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Eric Ebron



R.I.P. Stylish
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iggles


Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 24847
Location: Brooklyn
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of it in general. Not only is it wrong, you tend to get dragged down to a level that's not worth being at.
_________________
Kelly Link wrote:
Television characters almost always have better haircuts, funnier friends, simpler attitudes toward sex. They marry magicians, win lotteries, have affairs with women who carry guns in their purses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
x0x


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 15416
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to offer a few observations.

1. Most people take a long time to understand what respect really is. With regards to my students, I'd earn their respect by shooting a 3-pointer with ease or driving to school with my motorcycle. I'm not sure if many of you are simply naive on the subject, but more than likely as common sense would indicate, most of you haven't taught anything at length. People tend to prefer teaching themselves, post-secondary education is more open to students because they choose what program and courses they take ( and even then of course you may have to take several courses you don't like as mandatory requirements for your degree ). In High School, before Grade 10 the students don't have much variety. In Grade 11 & 12 there are only a few optional courses students can take, like Tech (Shop). So whether I'm teaching Music or History, many of the students have to be there, they have no choice and all I can do is my best to teach them what I feel they should know ( and the school board mandates as well ). So with respect, it doesn't even enter my mind. Am I to respect my students based on their knowledge of the subject I'm teaching or in general? This has to be considered. As many of us have weaknesses and strengths, and we can be respected in one field and looked down upon in another. In the general principle, respect is subjective. If I'm a sports guy, I may find it appealing that a friend of mine use to be in a pro sports league, if I don't like sports, I may brush this off as trivial. So think many of you need to look deep into what your meaning of respect is. Respect is earned. Being courteous and treating people with dignity does not correlate to respecting them.


2. I PMed some members about the conversation in the OP. Whether or not me and my friends became emotional about the subject with the youth should be considered with how he came about his argument. He was attacking our beliefs in an ignorant fashion, preaching about personal stories where his argument was weak. In our company, to attempt and make us feel guilty about our position and our beliefs, he had no place. Whether he was 20 or 40, it wouldn't have mattered, but because he was 20, we understood he was preaching with less life experience and more into what he had read and the emotionally driven encounters he had, which were few. When we talked down to him, it was because we could not allow him to receive a free pass. He was not only attacking us, but the very system we live in, and because we were in support of that system, we felt he not only stood for ignorance, but a future we often fear. As J Pep stated, his position would be to allow the ignorant one to continue on with his claims. Many do not think like this. Some of us believe if you let that person continue to walk freely, they will never change their mindset and hold onto it when they climb higher and higher to positions of power and inflict their ignorant views on many more, force them upon the masses so to speak. Being a history teacher, perhaps this hits me harder than most.


3. I find throughout this thread, life experience was trivialized. I'll try once again to explain what it is. I ALWAYS minimized it when I was growing up. It seemed, like many of you say, a garbage ploy to make adults appear superior to the younger population. I can only narrow it down to perhaps 23-26 when I started to acknowledge what it was. Not only was life experience what circumstances you had experienced, it was recollection and how you would use those experiences. The best life lessons are the hardest. Whenever someone tries to tell you to not do something because it will result in something negative, if smart, you try and avoid this, but in the end you will never acknowledge the severity of it until you pass through that experience. Some individuals will walk through life without ever coming across that specific negative, for them it will remain a zone outside of their existence, but for those who have walked across it, a new perspective emerges. Losing the use of your primary hand for months for example, for many this is catastrophic. And yet when you surpass this hardship and a friend suffers the same circumstance, you will know better the advice to give, not by the books, but what you've learned first hand. There also exists the theory that as you grow older, time goes by faster. Fact is, this is a half-truth. Our memories are considered limitless, but we require cues to access all out stored information. If you believe this then the conclusion is simple. If you have experienced more in life, you will have more cues to access more information. Then there is the notion that the longer one lives, the more variables they encounter and perhaps the more often they face certain variables. Like I pointed out with the doctor example. You can learn everything in a medical book, but if you do not come about certain situations, you will most likely have less cues to remember how to deal with them. A doctor who has practised medicine for 20 years may come across early onset dementia a hundred times and may have dealt with it poorly twenty times but has now learned the ideal way to go about treatment. Whereas the doctor who has practised for 1 year may have come across it only five times and dealt with it poorly on three occasions. The two times he has dealt with it well, he may have not encountered the various complications with treatment, and so forth.




Hopefully this clears up a few things.
_________________
Legends Never Die. They Breathe Through The New Generation.
100 Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> This aint sports talk! All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 10 of 13

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group