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When is it okay to talk down to people?
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Stole my answer.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
Yes, so why is my statement on not respecting teens and people in early 20s until they've impressed me ignorant?

because it's discriminatory, grouping people by a common classification instead of seeing them as individuals.

it would be just as bad if i said something like all Canadians are ignorant, unless they impress me as not being so. and to be honest, you're not helping your country's average right now.

Very Happy

you're a teacher, right? isn't it your chosen profession to mentor young people? and you see them as ignorant?
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Bohlmann20


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
x0x wrote:
Yes, so why is my statement on not respecting teens and people in early 20s until they've impressed me ignorant?

because it's discriminatory, grouping people by a common classification instead of seeing them as individuals.

it would be just as bad if i said something like all Canadians are ignorant, unless they impress me as not being so. and to be honest, you're not helping your country's average right now.
Very Happy

you're a teacher, right? isn't it your chosen profession to mentor young people? and you see them as ignorant?


Lol. I have to agree with the last sentence, though I can't speak on x0x's teaching ability. He could be really good at teaching, just hates the younger generation.
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-Hope-


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
Nothing against the kid but.....I'm sorry I don't respect people at that age unless they are serious prodigies.

Aren't you a teacher? I would hate to be taught by somebody with an attitude like that.
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x0x


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
x0x wrote:

I don't talk down to kids as a reflex, but when they're acting like they "know" and they don't have all the facts, I might be a tad " read this and go to this, then get back to me ".
Let's say they in fact do know all the facts but still have a difference of opinion. Would you be able to differentiate those two vastly different situations? Or would your instincts be to think he just doesn't know?


As a teacher that is essentially my job.

Whenever I meet anyone with a vastly different viewpoint than mine I will firstly ask them what they base their viewpoint on and if they are prepared to defend it well a healthy discussion can be had.


green24 wrote:
So if a 16 year old says the same exact thing as a 30 year old, is it viewed differently. I've never really had to worry about this becuase I've impressed nearly every adult that I have talked to, but just because someone has different political views, it doesn't believe that I should be looked at as immature. I feel more in place when talking to adults than I sometimes do talking to people my own age.


An older individual is given the benefit of the doubt, fair or not that is how life works.

This is why children are excused in actions adults would be vilified.

At the end of the day however, a younger individual can certainly rise above an older one if they have proven themselves and likewise the older individual has not.



This is why we have so many young supervisors who outrank individuals with many years of experience in certain fields.

Those young guys do get picked on a lot though. I agree it's unfair, everyone should be given a shot, but you are often judged on your record.


Compare a doctor who has been practising for 20 years and a fresh medical school graduate. Who has more respect from the community?
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
x0x wrote:
Yes, so why is my statement on not respecting teens and people in early 20s until they've impressed me ignorant?

because it's discriminatory, grouping people by a common classification instead of seeing them as individuals.

it would be just as bad if i said something like all Canadians are ignorant, unless they impress me as not being so. and to be honest, you're not helping your country's average right now.

Very Happy

you're a teacher, right? isn't it your chosen profession to mentor young people? and you see them as ignorant?


Thank you, VD. I can see you're behind the yute movement.

As a yute myself, I don't think it would be fair if my views were just tossed aside because they are not those of an adult. Or when people think that it doesn't matter who I want to win the presidential race or any other political race. Even though I do not have the right to vote, my "vote" counts more than the vote of 90+% of people who actually are voting. In last year's election I helped lead the youth (insert political party here) in the county that I live in. I volunteered 50 hours myself last year and brought in 15 other people who each volunteered for at least 10 hours. I don't think I would deserve to spoken down to by x0x or any other person who is older than me.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
Compare a doctor who has been practising for 20 years and a fresh medical school graduate. Who has more respect from the community?

now you're talking about respect.

before you were talking about how the "lesser" person in the comparison is ignorant.

big difference.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

x0x wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
x0x wrote:

I don't talk down to kids as a reflex, but when they're acting like they "know" and they don't have all the facts, I might be a tad " read this and go to this, then get back to me ".
Let's say they in fact do know all the facts but still have a difference of opinion. Would you be able to differentiate those two vastly different situations? Or would your instincts be to think he just doesn't know?


As a teacher that is essentially my job.

Whenever I meet anyone with a vastly different viewpoint than mine I will firstly ask them what they base their viewpoint on and if they are prepared to defend it well a healthy discussion can be had.


green24 wrote:
So if a 16 year old says the same exact thing as a 30 year old, is it viewed differently. I've never really had to worry about this becuase I've impressed nearly every adult that I have talked to, but just because someone has different political views, it doesn't believe that I should be looked at as immature. I feel more in place when talking to adults than I sometimes do talking to people my own age.


An older individual is given the benefit of the doubt, fair or not that is how life works.

This is why children are excused in actions adults would be vilified.

At the end of the day however, a younger individual can certainly rise above an older one if they have proven themselves and likewise the older individual has not.



This is why we have so many young supervisors who outrank individuals with many years of experience in certain fields.

Those young guys do get picked on a lot though. I agree it's unfair, everyone should be given a shot, but you are often judged on your record.


Compare a doctor who has been practising for 20 years and a fresh medical school graduate. Who has more respect from the community?
I like this post. Agree with everything you said in this post. Respect needs to be earned. You don't meet someone and respect them. You just don't. Just like you shouldn't walk up to someone and talk down. Where i get lost with you xox, is even if you know more and are more respected, is that a reason to ever talk down to someone? I don't think so. Even if they think they know and don't, it's never a time to talk down to them. Putting some knowledge in there head in a respectful way, even if they didn't earn it, is something i would see as a must. Always try and be the better man. Just the way I am. I see other points of view on it and can agree to a point, but it may not be the way i would handle it.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
because it's discriminatory, grouping people by a common classification instead of seeing them as individuals.

it would be just as bad if i said something like all Canadians are ignorant, unless they impress me as not being so. and to be honest, you're not helping your country's average right now.

Very Happy

you're a teacher, right? isn't it your chosen profession to mentor young people? and you see them as ignorant?


Thank you, VD. I can see you're behind the yute movement.

As a yute myself, I don't think it would be fair if my views were just tossed aside because they are not those of an adult. Or when people think that it doesn't matter who I want to win the presidential race or any other political race. Even though I do not have the right to vote, my "vote" counts more than the vote of 90+% of people who actually are voting. In last year's election I helped lead the youth (insert political party here) in the county that I live in. I volunteered 50 hours myself last year and brought in 15 other people who each volunteered for at least 10 hours. I don't think I would deserve to spoken down to by x0x or any other person who is older than me.
Off topic, you win for the My Cousin Vinny plug!
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's time to drop this one in, and then i'm done for the night...

i would only talk down to a person if i found out he was stealing my food and then justifying it, instead of seeing it as wrong.

Very Happy
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Packman Luke


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a correlation between ignorance and youth. Even if it's just a generalization, it is a reality. That said, it's not a reason to talk down to somebody younger than you. In fact, it's the exact reason you shouldn't. The younger individual hasn't had the experiences you've had, so it's your job to be mature and approach the conversation like an adult.


Really, there is no reason to "talk down" to anybody. You can be frustrated with them, you can pity them, but ultimately interacting with somebody in a way that is intended to posture your dominance over them is primitive behavior, and not productive in any way.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I find it's funny that younger people are supposed to "respect their elders" but so many "elders" don't think they should respect younger people. I'm respectful towards pretty much everyone I meet(when sober) until they're not respectful towards me. I don't care if you're 17 or 67, if you talk down to me or act disrespectfully towards me, I'm not going to be respectful back.

Respect is something that should always be a two way street.
Exactly. You don't disrespect a person just because they are younger or older then you. That whole "I'm old so i have more experience then you because your young" crap is just that. CRAP. If you are older and walk up to a younger person and immediately think you have experienced more, your already being disrespectful because your being flat ignored in thinking you know what that person has gone through and/or experienced. I would never talk down to another human unless they gave me a reason to. Old, young or whatever. It really doesn't matter because if you stereotype a person just by talking to that person for a couple minutes, that's disrespect and then you would get no respect in return.


I agree with most of what your suggesting but don't simply discredit experience because your young.

Age based experience certainly isn't crap and that very attitude is disrespectful. Your discussing stereotyping people but aren't you doing the same thing?

It's a reality that as you age you gain experience and that the greater age difference creates larger experience gaps.

I don't think I'm being disrespectful by suggesting I've experienced more than a great many younger people. By younger I mean under thirty years of age. It's simply a reality of life. What is disrespectful is how I present myself to the younger person. If I'm a condescending jerk then I am being disrespectful.

I can choose during a discussion to encourage young people by questioning their experiences asking them to expand why they feel or think a certain way then share my thoughts and feelings.

At issue is really how people choose to share opinion and experience. Everyone has an opinion but that doesn't make it correct and many times individuals, including myself learn far more by listening rather than sharing.

In this age of electronic communications many individuals, young and old are failing to develop adequate inter personal skills and when they enter a work place that depends on team work and verbal communication they require a great deal of mentoring which can be difficult because of individuals who discount experience.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: When is it okay to talk down to people? Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
x0x wrote:
Yes, so why is my statement on not respecting teens and people in early 20s until they've impressed me ignorant?

because it's discriminatory, grouping people by a common classification instead of seeing them as individuals.

it would be just as bad if i said something like all Canadians are ignorant, unless they impress me as not being so. and to be honest, you're not helping your country's average right now.

Very Happy

you're a teacher, right? isn't it your chosen profession to mentor young people? and you see them as ignorant?



Do I seriously need to explain why the comparison you make is not valid? If you meant to exaggerate, then fine, but otherwise it's a poor comparison.

Don't forget that as an older gentleman I remember my younger years and how many mistakes I made and things I overlooked. So I'm not going to assume that times have changed so much that people in their college years are all of a sudden more mature or have more experience.



If you really want to get into technicals here's what I've noticed happening in the last ten years:

*College Degrees don't mean what they use to because many more people are driven to go to college based on previous generations and many people choose programs that do not really require college education, such as humanities and the arts.

*Too many kids are living with parents at later ages. The stats are out there to back this up. Twenty years ago if you were in your mid 20s and living with your parents, barring a good explanation such as helping your folks out financially or such, you were seen as a failure. Now you're given a pass as "working on it".

*Internet has downgraded wisdom as a whole but upgraded knowledge. It's a cheat because you can look up ANYTHING on your phone and appear like you suddenly know. Before the internet you had to actively pursue a subject.

*Social interaction is dying. Go ahead and call me a nutjob but I see it in my community all the time. Less kids doing after school activities, more time infront of the television or computer.


And I can go on all day. Am I being overtly judgemental? Probably, but I have my reasons.



And as always, please leave my career out of these discussions as you do not know the history or extent of what I do or how I interact with my students in the classroom or in athletics.
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Packman Luke


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technology is ruining the world. Sounds like an informed perspective to me.
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Ketchup


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
I find it's funny that younger people are supposed to "respect their elders" but so many "elders" don't think they should respect younger people. I'm respectful towards pretty much everyone I meet(when sober) until they're not respectful towards me. I don't care if you're 17 or 67, if you talk down to me or act disrespectfully towards me, I'm not going to be respectful back.

Respect is something that should always be a two way street.
Exactly. You don't disrespect a person just because they are younger or older then you. That whole "I'm old so i have more experience then you because your young" crap is just that. CRAP. If you are older and walk up to a younger person and immediately think you have experienced more, your already being disrespectful because your being flat ignored in thinking you know what that person has gone through and/or experienced. I would never talk down to another human unless they gave me a reason to. Old, young or whatever. It really doesn't matter because if you stereotype a person just by talking to that person for a couple minutes, that's disrespect and then you would get no respect in return.


I agree with most of what your suggesting but don't simply discredit experience because your young.

Age based experience certainly isn't crap and that very attitude is disrespectful. Your discussing stereotyping people but aren't you doing the same thing?

It's a reality that as you age you gain experience and that the greater age difference creates larger experience gaps.

I don't think I'm being disrespectful by suggesting I've experienced more than a great many younger people. By younger I mean under thirty years of age. It's simply a reality of life. What is disrespectful is how I present myself to the younger person. If I'm a condescending jerk then I am being disrespectful.

I can choose during a discussion to encourage young people by questioning their experiences asking them to expand why they feel or think a certain way then share my thoughts and feelings.

At issue is really how people choose to share opinion and experience. Everyone has an opinion but that doesn't make it correct and many times individuals, including myself learn far more by listening rather than sharing.

In this age of electronic communications many individuals, young and old are failing to develop adequate inter personal skills and when they enter a work place that depends on team work and verbal communication they require a great deal of mentoring which can be difficult because of individuals who discount experience.
Didn't mean to discredit age based experience. My point was that if that's your sole reason then yea it's crap. If you walk up to someone younger and think, well I'm older so i have to have more experience, that's what i meant by crap. Most older people will have more experience but assuming it is not right. Questioning a younger person on why he thinks what he thinks and asking "why" is only going to help that younger person gain experience by hearing another persons, older or younger, experiences and opinions.
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