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Moss or Lebron
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Bigger Athletic Freak?
Randy
36%
 36%  [ 25 ]
Lebron
63%
 63%  [ 43 ]
Total Votes : 68

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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Folks LeBron is not human. Human Beings aren't that big, fast, quick, explosive, agile, and any other adjective you want to throw in there. LeBron is the best athlete, maybe of all time.

Come on....Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, and Bo Jackson are looking at you with an eyebrow raised
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Plat


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Superman(DH23) meant the best "freak" athlete of all time, I wouldn't agree with that but I think that's what he probably meant, I would argue Shaq (in his athletic peak) was more of a freak of nature than Lebron.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Folks LeBron is not human. Human Beings aren't that big, fast, quick, explosive, agile, and any other adjective you want to throw in there. LeBron is the best athlete, maybe of all time.

Come on....Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, and Bo Jackson are looking at you with an eyebrow raised
Jim Thorpe and Bo Jackson would be on my short list w/ LeBron.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:

1. This is wrong. John Wall actually has a vertical leap of only 30"... his max vertical however is 39"... which is measured with a running start. Moss had AT LEAST a 39" vertical leap (I've seen 39" to 42"). His max vertical would probably be about 45 to 46" or so.

2. This is true. But that being said, basketball tends to rely more on a combination of explosion, agility, and change of direction to represent "speed"... these are all things that Moss possessed at an elite level. Moss isn't Calvin Johnson... Moss had elite level "speed" in anyway you could measure it. The guy could change direction like he's Ray Rice.

3. I actually agree with this. It would probably be easier for LeBron to become a more successful football player than Moss a successful basketball player. Not that I don't think Moss could've been an All-Star level basketball player. I'd just have reservations about actual basketball ability. He did win Mr. Basketball, but was it mostly based on him being a class above everyone else athletically OR was it because of that plus him being a great ball handler/shooter of the basketball. Either way, I lack the necessary info to fully understand his potential.

Anyway, LeBron has great balance and coordination.. also important is that LeBron's COD skills are elite, which you don't see in many of the athletic TEs in the NFL... which is usually one of the biggest reasons as to why they haven't been able to get it done. Seems to me that LeBron could be as good a weapon as a Jimmy Graham... perhaps a little better. I mean, let's not get ahead of ourselves... he's more athletic than Graham, but there's a limit to just how dominant any receiver option can be.

4. Why would any basketball player WANT to convert to football? You get paid less, have less career stability, tend to have a shorter career shelf life... not to mention you get paid less. Iverson was a bigger fan of football growing up than basketball (IIRC), yet he chose to pursue basketball. I'd think any reasonable young man would choose basketball over football given the choice of both... unless he truly LOVES the NFL.. AND he hates the NBA.

5. This is untrue. He clearly was a freak in his state basketball wise. Moss' measurables are elite for basketball as well. Randy Moss' athletic ability on the basketball floor would rival Michael Jordan. You look at Jordan and you see elite COD ability, you see highly explosive athletes (both with verticals around that 39-44" range)... FWIW Jordan could probably jump slightly higher. Moss was definitely faster in terms of long speed however as he had legit 4.15 speed if you listen to his college coach (which is probably closer to 4.25 official) kind of speed whereas Jordan's college coach, Dean Smith, said Jordan ran a 4.3 going into his senior season. Now be it a low 4.3 or a high 4.3, we can only speculate. But either way, we're talking comparable freskish athletes when you mention Jordan and Moss. Jordan was 6'4" and Moss is 6'4"; Jordan has 40"+ vertical, Moss has 40" vertical; Jordan could run sub 4.4, Moss could run sub 4.3 in the forty; both elite COD ability. Both with huge hands for palming the basketball (or for circus NFL grabs).

So to claim that Moss is just some sort of everyday athlete in the NBA is simply ridiculous. Moss in the NBA is Jordan- athletically speaking. Now fundamentally speaking... well Jordan is Jordan.


1. OK i made an error there.

2. true moss does possess those traits but there is way more required in basketball than that.

3. We agree on that.

4. My point wasnt that people dont go from NFL to football, my main point was that most high school or college players try out for football because they simply are not good enough to be a basketball player at the college level let alone the NBA.

5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.
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Plat


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, young Jordan was certainly considered as an athletic freak.
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DetroitSpirit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.



He would look like a chump in swimming.
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Yfz01


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DetroitSpirit wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.



He would look like a chump in swimming.


Who? Moss swims every day. I don't know how good he is, but I'd assume he's far from a chump.
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DetroitSpirit


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
DetroitSpirit wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.



He would look like a chump in swimming.


Who? Moss swims every day. I don't know how good he is, but I'd assume he's far from a chump.


I was actually kidding when I said it, but I'm sure he wouldn't be able to compete with upper levels (olympians and what not)
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
DetroitSpirit wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.



He would look like a chump in swimming.


Who? Moss swims every day. I don't know how good he is, but I'd assume he's far from a chump.
Moss may swim everyday, I haven't swam competitively in close to 10 years, I assure I would still mop the floor w/ Moss or any other NFL player that wasn't a competitive swimmer.
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Yfz01


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Moss may swim everyday, I haven't swam competitively in close to 10 years, I assure I would still mop the floor w/ Moss or any other NFL player that wasn't a competitive swimmer.


Not Chad Johnson. Wink
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HighMotorGuy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yfz01 wrote:
DetroitSpirit wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
reckless123 wrote:
5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.


First of all, yea, Jordan was. Dwayne Wade is a freaky athletic basketball player as was AI. Don't know why people think you have to be one of the tallest players to be a "freak".


Second of all, Moss would be a freak of a nature in any sport. To deny that is ridiculous.

Gronk and VD don't have athletic skill-sets that translate like Moss's does. In fact, I wouldn't consider Gronk a freak athlete. And VD is freaky but his athleticism is pretty much football based.



He would look like a chump in swimming.


Who? Moss swims every day. I don't know how good he is, but I'd assume he's far from a chump.


This post is borderline creepy.
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Calvert28


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Folks LeBron is not human. Human Beings aren't that big, fast, quick, explosive, agile, and any other adjective you want to throw in there. LeBron is the best athlete, maybe of all time.

Come on....Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, and Bo Jackson are looking at you with an eyebrow raised


Yea people who say this are just speaking a very closed and dark box where all they have is a picture of LeBron.

Thorpe went to the Olympics and placed Gold in events that had no prior training in.

And the Olympics had been around for many many centuries and was still nearly as big back then as it is today.

Lets see Moss, Lebron, or anyone accomplish what Thorpe did.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reckless123 wrote:

1. OK i made an error there.

2. true moss does possess those traits but there is way more required in basketball than that.

3. We agree on that.

4. My point wasnt that people dont go from NFL to football, my main point was that most high school or college players try out for football because they simply are not good enough to be a basketball player at the college level let alone the NBA.

5. So, Moss is a freak in basketball terms? I dont think so. he would be regarded as someone who possess great athletic ability but not a freak. If he is a freak as a basketball player, what does that make Lebron? You say Moss' athletic ability would rival Jordan, but was MJ considered a freak? Erm..No

I never said Moss would be some regular athlete but he wouldnt be considered a freak of nature as a basketball player. Some people consider Gronk a freak as a football player but i doubt he is regarded that as a basketball player, same goes for Vernon Davis.

1. Make them all the time.

2. How could there be "way" more than what I listed when judging "speed" in basketball. Please do explain. When considering speed as an offensive and/or defensive player... that pretty much covers the basis: COD, speed, explosion, acceleration.. what other measurement of speed is there that I'm not considering?

3. Figures..

4. The thing is Moss CHOSE football. Do you actually believe that a player that won player of the year twice for his state... couldn't field at least one premier basketball scholarship... if not from a Duke/NC, than you'd figure WVU, VCU, Maryland, or some other semi-local college would've been looking to recruit him. But Moss chose football... and then got into trouble with the law, thus limiting his options. So he definitely had the athleticism and potentially talent to make it to the NBA if he'd chosen to pursue that interest. It's not as if Moss couldn't cut it. And it's not like there haven't been cases of basketball players in HS trying to be two-sport athletes and not being able to cut it in football... either getting cut or being too soft for their coaches to trust them in the game.

5. As far as I'm concerned your argument lost all credibility with that line. You clearly no absolutely nothing about NBA history if you didn't know something so simple. We're talking about a guy listed at 6'6" (really 6'4" but heck all NBA heights are inflated) and had the speed of the fastest PGs in the game, the same quickness... we're talking about a guy who could jump off of both one foot and two feet while still being incredibly explosive.. he could dunk from the foul line or jump off of two feet and nearly kiss the rim. The guy had potential sub 4.4 speed. NBA defenders simply couldn't guard his athleticism... except Detroit and their rules. Jordan is in the discussion for most athletic players in NBA history... with many knowledgeable people even having him above LeBron in that category for his superior body control, greater agility, longer hang time, and greater explosive ability. If you ACTUALLY believe players of Jordan's athletic caliber grow on trees in the NBA... then your logic is clearly flawed... and in fact, I'd LOOOOOOOVEEEEEE for you to supply a list of even 5 guys with comparable or better athleticism in the NBA right now, heck... history of the NBA.
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Plat


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall freakish athleticism?

Wilt, Shaq, David Thompson, Dr. J, Nique, Clyde, Shawn Kemp, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Vince Carter

They are not all bigger freaks of nature than prime Jordan but they are comparable.
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