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Bucs trade CB Aqib Talib and 7th round pick to Pats for 4th
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floppyflaps


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 757
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sayheykid wrote:
floppyflaps wrote:
However he is a great teammate, he never causes trouble and he always helps teammates out.


Right. Nothing screams great teammate like getting popped by the league for abusing prescription drugs. Well, it either screams great teammate or selfish scumbag, but definitely one of the two. I'm sure the rest of the defense found losing their two starting corners very helpful.


The point I was trying to make is that he doesn't cause a distraction in the locker room by putting down other players, being whiney, or anything like that. He's a supportive teammate, who isn't a nuisance in the locker room, and helps people out. Mike Williams credits a lot of his development to Talib because he constantly helped him out in practice, telling him what CBs were thinking about while in coverage.

To people who don't know Talib, they might see him as a thug (that part would be right) who would be a locker room cancer. That's not the case. His off the field antics are completely different to the kind of player he is to his teammates.
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Nefarious Bill


Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

floppyflaps wrote:
sayheykid wrote:
floppyflaps wrote:
However he is a great teammate, he never causes trouble and he always helps teammates out.


Right. Nothing screams great teammate like getting popped by the league for abusing prescription drugs. Well, it either screams great teammate or selfish scumbag, but definitely one of the two. I'm sure the rest of the defense found losing their two starting corners very helpful.


The point I was trying to make is that he doesn't cause a distraction in the locker room by putting down other players, being whiney, or anything like that. He's a supportive teammate, who isn't a nuisance in the locker room, and helps people out. Mike Williams credits a lot of his development to Talib because he constantly helped him out in practice, telling him what CBs were thinking about while in coverage.

To people who don't know Talib, they might see him as a thug (that part would be right) who would be a locker room cancer. That's not the case. His off the field antics are completely different to the kind of player he is to his teammates.




I love the sound of this, but then how do you explain the fist fight with his own team mate? I'm hoping he is reformed.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good trade for both teams here IMO
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floppyflaps


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 757
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nefarious Bill wrote:
floppyflaps wrote:
sayheykid wrote:
floppyflaps wrote:
However he is a great teammate, he never causes trouble and he always helps teammates out.


Right. Nothing screams great teammate like getting popped by the league for abusing prescription drugs. Well, it either screams great teammate or selfish scumbag, but definitely one of the two. I'm sure the rest of the defense found losing their two starting corners very helpful.


The point I was trying to make is that he doesn't cause a distraction in the locker room by putting down other players, being whiney, or anything like that. He's a supportive teammate, who isn't a nuisance in the locker room, and helps people out. Mike Williams credits a lot of his development to Talib because he constantly helped him out in practice, telling him what CBs were thinking about while in coverage.

To people who don't know Talib, they might see him as a thug (that part would be right) who would be a locker room cancer. That's not the case. His off the field antics are completely different to the kind of player he is to his teammates.




I love the sound of this, but then how do you explain the fist fight with his own team mate? I'm hoping he is reformed.


That happened when he was a rookie. Since then there's been no incident with teammates.
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atown703


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 9985
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillsGuy82 wrote:
Good trade for both teams here IMO
Yeah it benefits both teams but in different ways. I think NE got the better deal especially since they got a draft pick back
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The patriots have a strong locker room and team culture.

The patriots desperately need db talent.

A fourth is less likely to be valuable than Talib will be to us in a title run this year.

I wish it was less or we got a sixth back, but I'm not upset. It just doesn't appear to be completely one sided like the al Davis glory days.
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ErnestoGuevara


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 2578
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.

Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.


What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?

Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:

Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House

Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them

That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.

I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too.


To be fair, at least for 2010, if you expand it to 20, you start including Dennis Pitta, Aaron Hernandez and Joe McKnight, all who have been contributing to their respective teams, Hernandez and Pitta both as starters (not sure about McKnight). Then of course, the 2nd pick of the 5th round was Kam Chancellor and we know about how well he's been doing.

Not to mention Cortez Allen is our nickel...
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roachkiller


Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 1233
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.

Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.


What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?

Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:

Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House

Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them

That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.

I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too.


To be fair, at least for 2010, if you expand it to 20, you start including Dennis Pitta, Aaron Hernandez and Joe McKnight, all who have been contributing to their respective teams, Hernandez and Pitta both as starters (not sure about McKnight). Then of course, the 2nd pick of the 5th round was Kam Chancellor and we know about how well he's been doing.


Hernandez wasnt a 4th round talent, he has character concerns but he was often viewed as a 2nd round talent at worst, and some in the 1st round. I always thought he was a top 20 talent, but thats neither here nor there. There is a high chance that any 4th rounder that the Pats get wont start or really even contribute too much unless it is an issue like Hernandez had. There is no downside for the Pats, they get a very talented CB, more talented than anyone else they have.
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49erurtaza


Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 1084
Location: in my head
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roachkiller wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.

Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.


What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?

Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:

Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House

Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them

That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.

I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too.


To be fair, at least for 2010, if you expand it to 20, you start including Dennis Pitta, Aaron Hernandez and Joe McKnight, all who have been contributing to their respective teams, Hernandez and Pitta both as starters (not sure about McKnight). Then of course, the 2nd pick of the 5th round was Kam Chancellor and we know about how well he's been doing.


Hernandez wasnt a 4th round talent, he has character concerns but he was often viewed as a 2nd round talent at worst, and some in the 1st round. I always thought he was a top 20 talent, but thats neither here nor there. There is a high chance that any 4th rounder that the Pats get wont start or really even contribute too much unless it is an issue like Hernandez had. There is no downside for the Pats, they get a very talented CB, more talented than anyone else they have.

He got picked in the 4th round regardless if he was higher talent then where he got picked.
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Gore Whore 21


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 4427
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.

Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.


What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?

Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:

Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House

Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them

That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.

I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too.


Hunter had been doing very well for us here in San Fran. He's averaging over 5 YPC this season.
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shawn


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Posts: 6000
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

honestly, there is some decent football players on that list Laughing

I would rather take my shot with a 4th round pick, who I would have under contract for 4 years. Then again, I am a Cardinals fan, and our last 3 4th round picks are in our starting lineup.

yeah, some 4th round picks bust. But that is still a solid pick.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shawn wrote:
honestly, there is some decent football players on that list Laughing


Yes there are. Players like Cecil Shorts are exactly the level of players that the Patriots need to fill out their roster. I mean, they would probably want them at other positions, but there is certainly a high quality type of player to be found in the fourth round if you hit on them.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23956
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

49erurtaza wrote:
roachkiller wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.

Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.


What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?

Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:

Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House

Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them

That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.

I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too.


To be fair, at least for 2010, if you expand it to 20, you start including Dennis Pitta, Aaron Hernandez and Joe McKnight, all who have been contributing to their respective teams, Hernandez and Pitta both as starters (not sure about McKnight). Then of course, the 2nd pick of the 5th round was Kam Chancellor and we know about how well he's been doing.


Hernandez wasnt a 4th round talent, he has character concerns but he was often viewed as a 2nd round talent at worst, and some in the 1st round. I always thought he was a top 20 talent, but thats neither here nor there. There is a high chance that any 4th rounder that the Pats get wont start or really even contribute too much unless it is an issue like Hernandez had. There is no downside for the Pats, they get a very talented CB, more talented than anyone else they have.

He got picked in the 4th round regardless if he was higher talent then where he got picked.


Exactly. Each year we see higher talent guys slip to the 4th due to character issues. But regardless of where Hernandez ranked talent wise, he fell to the 4th which supports my point.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of overreaction here with regards to the value of draft picks.

During the season a 5th Round pick is like golddust (see Mike Thomas thread) yet when it actually comes to the draft, picks are thrown around like they are worth very little.

Browns gave a 4th Round pick to move up one spot to secure a player the Vikes weren't even going to select.

Jags gave up a 4th Round pick to move up 2 spots for Justin Blackmon

Jags gave up a 2nd to move up 6 spots for Blaine Gabbert.

Basicall, picks are overvalued until the day where they have to be used, so teams get desperate.

If you think the Pats are unlikely to see a 4th Rounder in this upcoming draft as a result of this trade then you are mistaken.

We have 4 picks in this draft and I bet we come out with 7-8 draft picks.
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Babylon


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I care one way or another, but listing two teams that are and have been godawful as support for what your team did is probably not the grandest of ideas.
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