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RamRod


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: General Draft Discussion Reply with quote

Figured it would be a good idea to have a thread to discuss anything related to the draft. I know there's been some discussion in the Redskins watch thread but there's no reason why we can't have a thread dedicated specifically to discuss the draft.
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jjab360


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know is that Justin Hunter needs to be a part of this team. He's basically a more athletic, less refined AJ Green, and quite frankly I think Keenan Allen pales in comparison.
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
All I know is that Justin Hunter needs to be a part of this team. He's basically a more athletic, less refined AJ Green, and quite frankly I think Keenan Allen pales in comparison.



I dont know how you see that at all, I couldnt disagree more. If anything, Keenan Allen is a more refined version of Justin Hunter. The only thing Hunter has over Allen is more speed but not by much. Hunter is still quite raw.


Currently doing film breakdown on safeties and dline prospects, will post my thoughts soon.
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jjab360


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
All I know is that Justin Hunter needs to be a part of this team. He's basically a more athletic, less refined AJ Green, and quite frankly I think Keenan Allen pales in comparison.



I dont know how you see that at all, I couldnt disagree more. If anything, Keenan Allen is a more refined version of Justin Hunter. The only thing Hunter has over Allen is more speed but not by much. Hunter is still quite raw.


Currently doing film breakdown on safeties and dline prospects, will post my thoughts soon.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I'd say Hunter has elite speed and explosiveness, while Allens' are only above average. Allen is a little more refined, but IMO, you don't pass on freakish talent like Hunter or you'll eventually grow to regret it. It's not like we're talking about Brian Quick or Stephen Hill here, Hunter has had considerable success running NFL routes against SEC defenses. Most importantly, he knows how to use his 6-4 frame and extra two inches over Allen, which is an invaluable asset we are in dire need of in the red zone right now.
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Allen is 6-3 and knows how to use it. I really don't see size as a difference maker between either of them... they are both pretty big (tall) WRs who know how to use their height.

But for me, I'd rather get the most NFL ready WR because they already have Quick who can turn out. Luckily Givens is already helping, but a NFL ready 1/2 WR is desperately needed in which Allen or Woods would be, not Hunter IMO. I have no problem with where you are coming from though.
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is info I have already posted in the Redskins watch thread and will post my research/write-up/thoughts on guys I watched tonight in a second.

Robert Woods- Not as impressed as I thought I would be, gets physically abused, not as fast as I thought and not as good of hands as I thought. Still runs stupidly good routes though.

Keenan Allen- Confirmed what I thought... IMO he is the best WR in this class and perhaps even last years as well. Worthy of a top 10 pick imo. The fact that he was on a below average team with a below average qb and defenses knew he was going to be the go to guy and still couldnt really stop him. Plays fast, plays angry and all the meantime being smooth as velvet with some serious speed to go with it.

Luke Joeckel- The most athletic of the first round OL prospects and probably the best technically but still not sure if I would trust him at LT in the NFL just yet. Gets thrown around a bit probably needs to bulk up. Plays a tad soft for my liking.

Taylor Lewan- Possibly a better fit for RT but not a bad LT at all. Plays like he wants to punish his opponent and I love it, however sometimes gets overly aggressive and lunges along with missing his block. Very strong and athletic but a little raw.

Chance Warmack- All I know is... The dude doesnt fit into his jersey, not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing. He is ugly... slow... And STRONG. Does an excellent job in both pass and run blocking. Its hard to tell sometimes though because Bama's whole line is so good, but overall id say he is the safest bet and if he lost a little weight could probably be even better.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
All I know is that Justin Hunter needs to be a part of this team. He's basically a more athletic, less refined AJ Green, and quite frankly I think Keenan Allen pales in comparison.



I dont know how you see that at all, I couldnt disagree more. If anything, Keenan Allen is a more refined version of Justin Hunter. The only thing Hunter has over Allen is more speed but not by much. Hunter is still quite raw.


Currently doing film breakdown on safeties and dline prospects, will post my thoughts soon.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I'd say Hunter has elite speed and explosiveness, while Allens' are only above average. Allen is a little more refined, but IMO, you don't pass on freakish talent like Hunter or you'll eventually grow to regret it. It's not like we're talking about Brian Quick or Stephen Hill here, Hunter has had considerable success running NFL routes against SEC defenses. Most importantly, he knows how to use his 6-4 frame and extra two inches over Allen, which is an invaluable asset we are in dire need of in the red zone right now.


I think you're selling Allen way short.

My personal view is that if Hunter continues to improve and shows that he's 100% healthy, he's the best WR in this class. Until that happens, it's Allen who is a much better athlete than you give him credit for.

Allen is an excellent all around WR while Hunter is the better athlete and has more upside.
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But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Star Lotulelei- I like this guy a lot, he gets major push up the gut. He bench presses and man-handles all OL basically every snap. Has a good get off and extremely strong. Plays a little high, but is EXTREMELY athletic for how big he is. Sadly however, despite his one of a kind athletic ability... he lacks any kind of pass rush apart from once or twice a game at best. Still... the thought of this guy and Brockers together is fun to play with.

Jonathan Hankins- Not very impressed to be honest. Just kind of a big body in the middle. Not a whole lot of strength nor athleticism IMO. I don't see how he is supposed to be a top 10 pick.

Kawann Short- Very similar to Hankins except a bit more quick. Does a decent job on both the run and pass rush, but nothing outstanding. Also not impressed considering where he is slotted to be taken.

Jesse Williams- I love this guy. Also, like Lotulelei, he is very athletic and quick for his size. Very disruptive in the run game and has a decent pass rush. Now, like all my opinions I try to be fair and one thing that could make him look better than he might be is he plays on the Bama defense. However, he also is in the SEC and plays against some big strong dudes that can move and block so I have to give him some credit. I would take him over Hankins or Short in a heartbeat.

Could not find enough film at this time to grade Jonathan Jenkins of Georgia. I will come back to him when I do more grading of the DL later when it gets closer to draft as DL isn't a huge need.

Sam Montgomery- Incredibly strong for his size, but lacks elite DE athleticism. Would be better off gaining a few lbs and going to LE... imo. Don't get me wrong, he is an athletic dude, but is just a little stiff and slow. He lives off the bull rush and often draws double teams and combo blocks which is always a good thing. A little slow off the ball though which concerns me.

Barkevious Mingo- Plays DE at LSU, but would more dangerous at OLB in a 3-4 at the next level. Quick as all get out and pretty strong for his size however, he got pretty much shut down against Jake Matthews of Texas A&M where he just got out manned and A&M utilized alot of quick passes that didn't allow Mingo to really get more than a step or two. A little raw, but a freak DE or pass rushing OLB no doubt.

Bjoern Werner- This guy is a stud. Not the greatest against the run, but is very smart with how he plays and sniffs out runs and screens where he may not make the play himself, but slows the play up enough where his teammates can. His get off and pass rush is on par or potentially better than Mingo's IMO. Reminds me alot like Chris Long and thats not just because he is white. He needs some coaching to get him polished, but I would have no problem taking him over either LSU prospects.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Sam Montgomery- Incredibly strong for his size, but lacks elite DE athleticism. Would be better off gaining a few lbs and going to LE... imo. Don't get me wrong, he is an athletic dude, but is just a little stiff and slow. He lives off the bull rush and often draws double teams and combo blocks which is always a good thing. A little slow off the ball though which concerns me.


Disagree completely. I've seen him make OLs look foolish with his spin move, counter moves and swim moves.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Jefferson- Very quick and fast, but not anything elite in that department. Sometimes comes in too aggressive for a tackle and ends up missing altogether. Zone coverage is above average, but he struggles in man which is a major concern considering his size (5'10") where he can get absolutely punished by TE's in the NFL (GRONK).

T.J. McDonald- Ah how is the SC homer going to grade his beloved TJ? Actually, not very good at all. He sort of jogs around looking around waiting for the quarterback to make his decision at which time he breaks and is usually too late for the interception, he does however have a lot of range with his 6'2" frame (looks/plays bigger than that). That is when he is in zone. The only time he played man was when he was spying the RB out of the backfield and most times he also was too late. Really the only thing he did very well was run support and blitzing.

Kenny Vaccaro- Eh, very inconsistant. Will make a play then get burnt the next. Where have we seen that before??... No thanks.

Matt Elam- More like an undersized LB (5'11" 205)... a really undersized LB. He is so slow for a safety its painful. He does however come up and does really well in underneath zone coverage and run support.

Eric Reid- Alright, despite me not wanting it to be true... He is infact the best Safety in this class. Worthy of a 1st rounder? Perhaps, but late first if that is the case. Doesn't have elite speed by any means, but is quick and intelligent. Excellent tackler and aggressive, good in zone, decent enough in man. Still not 100 percent on him though, would prefer a safety to be better in coverage like Honey Badger would be. That might be asking a lot, but after watching Gronkfest the other week... I'm a little critical.
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Sam Montgomery- Incredibly strong for his size, but lacks elite DE athleticism. Would be better off gaining a few lbs and going to LE... imo. Don't get me wrong, he is an athletic dude, but is just a little stiff and slow. He lives off the bull rush and often draws double teams and combo blocks which is always a good thing. A little slow off the ball though which concerns me.


Disagree completely. I've seen him make OLs look foolish with his spin move, counter moves and swim moves.


I have yet to see it, but with all the talk of him being a top 5 pick I don't doubt it.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
Tony Jefferson- Very quick and fast, but not anything elite in that department. Sometimes comes in too aggressive for a tackle and ends up missing altogether. Zone coverage is above average, but he struggles in man which is a major concern considering his size (5'10") where he can get absolutely punished by TE's in the NFL (GRONK).


Struggles in man? I'd say you're reaching on that. Oklahoma has used him as a slot CB in the past. He is very much so a plus athlete for a safety with excellent instincts. Does need to take better angles and do a more consistent job of wrapping up but he has a nose for the ball, flies around the field making plays and in the games I saw, he looked quite competent in man coverage on WRs.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Tony Jefferson- Very quick and fast, but not anything elite in that department. Sometimes comes in too aggressive for a tackle and ends up missing altogether. Zone coverage is above average, but he struggles in man which is a major concern considering his size (5'10") where he can get absolutely punished by TE's in the NFL (GRONK).


Struggles in man? I'd say you're reaching on that. Oklahoma has used him as a slot CB in the past. He is very much so a plus athlete for a safety with excellent instincts. Does need to take better angles and do a more consistent job of wrapping up but he has a nose for the ball, flies around the field making plays and in the games I saw, he looked quite competent in man coverage on WRs.


He has the speed to keep up with go routes and ability to drive back on the ball on hitches and slants, but on corner routes he seems to be a step or two behind from the few I've seen. I am just saying that considering he is the size of a corner he isn't the greatest in man.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEE RAWL wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
DEE RAWL wrote:
Tony Jefferson- Very quick and fast, but not anything elite in that department. Sometimes comes in too aggressive for a tackle and ends up missing altogether. Zone coverage is above average, but he struggles in man which is a major concern considering his size (5'10") where he can get absolutely punished by TE's in the NFL (GRONK).


Struggles in man? I'd say you're reaching on that. Oklahoma has used him as a slot CB in the past. He is very much so a plus athlete for a safety with excellent instincts. Does need to take better angles and do a more consistent job of wrapping up but he has a nose for the ball, flies around the field making plays and in the games I saw, he looked quite competent in man coverage on WRs.


He has the speed to keep up with go routes and ability to drive back on the ball on hitches and slants, but on corner routes he seems to be a step or two behind from the few I've seen. I am just saying that considering he is the size of a corner he isn't the greatest in man.


In being fair, he's not primarily a CB so it's understandable his anticipation might not be on that level. In comparison to other safeties, though, he's very good in M2M.

And while he's the size of a CB, he hits like a safety and plays the run like the safety so again, seems irrelevant to me.
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The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are completely right, there was a couple plays specifically however where he was man on a fairly big and physical TE and had perfect coverage on a seam route and just could not make the play due to his size. Again, perhaps I am scarred for life, but that Patriots game makes me real critical on safeties... Probably too critical.

I'm just trying to think if he would really be an upgrade from what we have now, or at least enough of an upgrade worthy of a 2nd-4th draft choice?

I would be perfectly content however with Reid late in the first or early in the second should he be there.
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